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  1. #26
    Believe. waisman's Avatar
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    PG Neal is only with SG Ginobili .
    Neal dribble is but .

  2. #27
    Believe. benfti's Avatar
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    How much have we ran a line up with Mills and De Colo?

  3. #28
    Spurs Sage Russ's Avatar
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    Patty Mills is a good clubhouse guy, but a nonfactor on the court.

    Neal is a designated assassin. Like Vinny Microwave Johnson. A scoring solution when things stagnate. Not a backup PG.

    TJ Ford was vastly underrated by most folks around here. He is truly missed.

    That said, I see De Colo as the best option. He has a relaxed fluidity to his game that PGs need. He will assimilate. De Colo will absorb the game the more he's allowed to play.

    And if it's a really big situation (playoffs) and you need a backup PG -- just go with Manu.

  4. #29
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    its not an issue of overrating TJ ford. its an issue of getting competent play at the backup point guard spot. with the new Splitter Duncan pairing, backup PG has become the weakest link. and everyone keeps harping on about Ginobili as if hes a lock to be healthy and in rhythm in the playoffs. it seems as if hes missed half the games this season, and played at 100% in less than 25% of them. metrics are useless if the player isnt on the court, to be quite ing honest...
    Even with a good backup PG, Spurs won't go far in the playoffs if Manu isn't healthy. Looking at how Spurs are doing when he is healthy is damn relevant because it's the only scenario where Spurs have a shot at winning it all.

    I think everybody can agree that Spurs don't have a good backup PG but this weakness hasn't really hurt them when Manu was healthy. It hasn't hurt them a lot is because Manu is helping a lot the PG with his playmaking skills and because, while not being great and stable, the backup PG spot hasn't been a disaster. Mills and De Colo both had their moments.

    While a good solid backup PG would be welcomed, Spurs could also stick with what they have without significantly hurting their odds to win it all.

  5. #30
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    The overrating of TJ Ford is reaching Claxtonian proportions. He played all of 191 minutes for the Spurs. And, yes, while he seemed like a good change of pace from the other recent point guards who can't dribble and/or pass, he wasn't that special. He was turning the ball over at a league leading rate, his outside shot was broken and it's doubtful he would have made a productive long-term partner next to Manu Ginobili.

    At the time of the TJ Ford signing, I thought it was a dumb move because he'd be a bad fit and because he was so injury prone. The bad fit part may have been a mistake on my part. I'll concede that even though the sample size was small and, IIRC, Ford never played with a completely healthy Big 3 so it's questionable how he would have fit as the season progressed. (And my concession ignores the fact that the Spurs did great without him up until the final four games of the WCF.) But Ford's proneness to injury still makes the signing look dumb. You have a team that is fragile to begin with and you go out and sign the most fragile player in the league? That never made any sense. The chances of Ford surviving the whole season were low from the very start.

    In a perfect world where TJ Ford has a fully functional spinal cord, it would have be nice to have a backup point guard that is actually a point guard. But in reality, Ford was a long-shot to survive last season and it would have taken a miracle for him to make it into a second season.
    Heh. I lol'ed at "Claxtonian." It's true that a lot of people here are putting him up on a pedestal but a lot of that just stems from our current situation where we haw 3 guys routinely fail at merely getting the offense into their sets, let alone running those sets.
    I actually thought Ford was a solid pickup because he was pretty active on defense and was pretty quick, and in an ideal world he was a good stopgap after dealing Indiana George. While he was by no means an efficient outside shooter Ford did play with a true point guards mentality and was usually able to get sufficient dribble penetration to cater to our drive and kick offense. Took some pressure off Manu, allowing him to play more minutes since he would no longer carry the entire burden of creating for the second unit.
    I'm pretty confident that CoJo will be able to step into the role by next season, or at the very least we will see improvement from Nando. But as far as this season goes, Manu will be counter on to shoulder the load once he's healthy

  6. #31
    Manu Ginobili's bald spot chapnis's Avatar
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    Well if he isn't healthy, we can't win a le anyway so the argument is moot.
    this so much.

  7. #32
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    its not an issue of overrating TJ ford. its an issue of getting competent play at the backup point guard spot. with the new Splitter Duncan pairing, backup PG has become the weakest link. and everyone keeps harping on about Ginobili as if hes a lock to be healthy and in rhythm in the playoffs. it seems as if hes missed half the games this season, and played at 100% in less than 25% of them. metrics are useless if the player isnt on the court, to be quite ing honest...
    It's a more glaring need, what with Pop's mad scientist routine and Ginobili constantly being in and out, but backup SF is right there with it as far as being the weakest link goes. Sure, it would be nice to have someone to slot in ahead of Bonner/Blair (I don't see Baynes being a legit candidate this season), but the reality is, one is a fringe rotation player and the other is a non rotation player at this point and they're both competent in those roles.

    Backup PG and SF are clear cut rotation spots though and they, along with Ginobili constantly being in and out and Pop's decision to essentially go to a 9 man rotation, have decimated what was the league's best depth. It's nice that they've been winning without Duncan and Ginobili, but the fact that it's taken Parker playing the part of 3rd best player in the world to do so (against weak compe ion, no less), is alarming. In the grand scheme of things, if at most this team can only trust 7 players, then they don't stand a chance at beating the Thunder.

  8. #33
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    It was a small sample, but TJ looked great as a Spur.

    If he would have played like that all season, yes losing him was huge.

  9. #34
    Starter off the bench Uriel's Avatar
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    Another stat to show how it's night and day for the backup PG with or without Manu.

    Spurs without Parker but with Manu on the court (403 minutes): +108
    Spurs without both Parker and Manu on the court (461 minutes): -33
    What's most amazing about this stat is that we've actually played more minutes without Manu than with him.

  10. #35
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    Manu was starting at the time we got TJ Ford so he ran the offense and got shots for the second unit. Tbh I think the only reason Manu isn't starting is Pop is afraid of him getting injured. But ultimately I think it makes more sense to start Manu and solve the backup PG issue with a real PG. It also helps conserve Manu and allow him to play of the ball more.

  11. #36
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    It's a more glaring need, what with Pop's mad scientist routine and Ginobili constantly being in and out, but backup SF is right there with it as far as being the weakest link goes. Sure, it would be nice to have someone to slot in ahead of Bonner/Blair (I don't see Baynes being a legit candidate this season), but the reality is, one is a fringe rotation player and the other is a non rotation player at this point and they're both competent in those roles.

    Backup PG and SF are clear cut rotation spots though and they, along with Ginobili constantly being in and out and Pop's decision to essentially go to a 9 man rotation, have decimated what was the league's best depth. It's nice that they've been winning without Duncan and Ginobili, but the fact that it's taken Parker playing the part of 3rd best player in the world to do so (against weak compe ion, no less), is alarming. In the grand scheme of things, if at most this team can only trust 7 players, then they don't stand a chance at beating the Thunder.

    Small forward is pretty well covered honestly, Kawhi Leonard is good for extended starter minutes and Jackson even with his shooting woe due to the bad finger is a strong back-up. Add in boris can play the spot against bigger SF and green or Ginobili against smaller and everything is good. The spurs problem is that they have two to many guys that have pretty good sg skills in point guard bodies. That comes from low draft picks. They are also short a quality back-up power forward or center. Baynes needs a training camp and some nba seasoning; Bonner is himself with the questionable rebounding and suspect man on man inside defense and rim protection (very good team defense and mid range though), Boris I have simply come to believe is a head case, good enough, but completely on autopilot until forced to engage... you just really want someone that combines Boris with Bonners drive and will, or give Baynes 3 of Duncans years of experience With the personal they have they can cover but its very match-up dependent and they simply don't have a guy that can get put in no matter and be counted on to sustain play and eat minutes.

  12. #37
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    Small forward is pretty well covered honestly
    It is? They have one reliable SF and as solid as he is, he's not James, Durant or Anthony.

    Kawhi Leonard is good for extended starter minutes
    In theory, he is. In reality, the coach inexplicably refuses to utilize him in that capacity.

    Jackson even with his shooting woe due to the bad finger is a strong back-up
    Based on what, your nostalgia? The reality is, if his name were Jefferson/Finley/Udoka, etc. and he were having the exact same season, Spurs fans would would him off the team.

    The bad finger isn't what caused his percentages to go down the toilet. He's been a sub 30% 3-point shooter for two seasons now . . . it just got obscured because he shot out of his mind in the WCF.

    they simply don't have a guy that can get put in no matter and be counted on to sustain play and eat minutes.
    I agree, but if the top three stay healthy (which I admit is doubtful, considering Splitter's injury history and how long he's went without one), then that's a lesser need than backup PG and SF, because those three can eat up the vast majority of the minutes and in many cases, they'll be able to get away with Jackson playing spot minutes at PF.


    According to Wojnarowski, Dudley and Telfair are available. The Spurs should offer Jackson, Neal and a future 1st (the upcoming draft is projected to be weak and the Spurs pick will be a virtual 2nd) for Dudley and Telfair.

  13. #38
    Stern is the reason
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    The bad finger isn't what caused his percentages to go down the toilet. He's been a sub 30% 3-point shooter for two seasons now . . . it just got obscured because he shot out of his mind in the WCF.


    According to Wojnarowski, Dudley and Telfair are available. The Spurs should offer Jackson, Neal and a future 1st (the upcoming draft is projected to be weak and the Spurs pick will be a virtual 2nd) for Dudley and Telfair.
    Yeah, Robert Horry really sucked ass because he perennially shot <30% on threes in the regular season.



    As for the trade... would take it if available, though I don't like Telfair, he surely couldn't be worse than Rafer Alston.

  14. #39
    Veteran Sean Cagney's Avatar
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    Well if he isn't healthy, we can't win a le anyway so the argument is moot.
    Thats true. He was healthy last year though and we did not win a le, infact all of them will so a le is a longshot now but still not impossible. I hope they can make a run now for another le this year, I don't count on it nor expect it but if they can make a run it will be big surprise!

  15. #40
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    TJ Ford was and is a non-factor. The goal is a ring. He's not the catalyst.

  16. #41
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    I don't think people are putting him on a pedestal but more of having a backup PG who can dribble and penetrate and dish which at this time we don't have.

    People say that Manu will run PG duties in playoffs but who is going to guard the other teams PG..Neal...Mills...Nando.....Eeeeekkkk

  17. #42
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    Yeah, Robert Horry really sucked ass because he perennially shot <30% on threes in the regular season.



    As for the trade... would take it if available, though I don't like Telfair, he surely couldn't be worse than Rafer Alston.
    Jackson is not Horry, though.

    Telfair isn't really Spurs material, so I seriously doubt they'd want him. He's pretty much irrelevant in this anyway . . . this is about getting Dudley.

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