NBA: Parker>>>>Kobe

[DMC]

no

because that team would blow even more ass than almost any team that Lebron had in cleveland

Exactly, so then how could Lebron be so valuable to his team if he needs two other all stars to get a ring?

[Pelicans78]

and in 08-09 they had the misfortune of running into a 3-pt shooting team that was firing on all cylinders. sometimes you just can't do anything against a jumpshooting team that is on fire as a whole.

The big problem in that series was Dwight Howard too. He destroyed Ziggy. He was a monster in that series. Every game, was clearly the most dominating force. Lebron was very good and great at times, but had to work for it alot harder. I just went through the box scores in that series. His usage rate was unreal. Closer to 40%. He was trying to do so much, but Dwight Howard had zero resistance. Unreal the type of series he had. That's why they brought in Shaq. He would have made a difference. It would have been an epic 7 game series, but the Jamison trade and Lebron's struggle in game 5 at home against Boston messed it up.

[stretch]

Exactly, so then how could Lebron be so valuable to his team if he needs two other all stars to get a ring?

lol MJ with Pippen/Rodman

lol Magic with Kareem/Worthy

lol Bird with McHale/Parish

lol Duncan with Parker/Ginobili

lol Shaq with Kobe

lol Kobe with Bynum/Gasol

How many superstars have won championships in the past 30 years without an all-star at his side?

Oddly, Dirk is one of the extreme few.

[Pelicans78]

Exactly, so then how could Lebron be so valuable to his team if he needs two other all stars to get a ring?

Because he still controls the game even with those two on the floor. Offensively and defensively. The ball is in his hands most of the team, and he's outstanding defensively. Even without Bosh, they would still be a le contender.

[DMC]

Even with Bosh and Wade on his team, Lebron controls the game enough to warrant regular season MVPs. His presence decreases the overall production of Wade and Bosh who would normally get way more touches. Plus, Lebron's defense is awesome as well.

That's all fine and good, but you shouldn't be able to remove the MVP from the team and they still win. The Heat would still be bad ass with Wade, Bosh and Ray Allen (not to mention Udonis Haslem, Lewis, Birdman, Battier, etc..)

To me, the MVP is the one who makes the difference on his team. That's why people were saying he would be giving up the MVP if he went to Miami, not just because of touches, but because two super powers on the same team cannot produce a league MVP based on how it's almost always been decided.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Exactly, so then how could Lebron be so valuable to his team if he needs two other all stars to get a ring?

he took a backseat to wade in their first season together,
2nd season he took over and it became his team, wade was injured and played like
3rd season now wade is fit and , but still lebron is coasting and producing his career avgs at a higher efficiency then he could imagine

now if u look back at nashs 2mvps, the 2nd one they basically awarded it to him cause of his high efficiency and carrying that team...so how come the same cant be applied to lebron who is doing the same ?

durant has no business winning anything, he hasnt improve anything...still a offensive minded player only

[Pelicans78]

lol MJ with Pippen/Rodman

lol Magic with Kareem/Worthy

lol Bird with McHale/Parish

lol Duncan with Parker/Ginobili

lol Shaq with Kobe

lol Kobe with Bynum/Gasol

How many superstars have won championships in the past 30 years without an all-star at his side?

Oddly, Dirk is one of the extreme few.

Dirk's run is amazing, but Tyson Chandler is a borderline All-Star (but not Hall of Fame. Still love that guy) because his presence is hard to quantify offensively and defensively. He had a huge impact on those Hornets teams and made CP3 alot better too and he's doing the same for the Knicks. But outside of that, a ton of role players on that Mavs team. Unreal what Dirk did that season. True warrior and a champion. That's one of my favorite teams of all time, mostly because of Dirk and TC. I still miss TC. He was by far my favorite player on those Hornet teams. Wasn't a like David West or CP3.

[stretch]

That's all fine and good, but you shouldn't be able to remove the MVP from the team and they still win. The Heat would still be bad ass with Wade, Bosh and Ray Allen (not to mention Udonis Haslem, Lewis, Birdman, Battier, etc..)

Kind of like taking MJ off the Bulls, and they go on to win 55 games?

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol Duncan with Parker/Ginobili


How many superstars have won championships in the past 30 years without an all-star at his side?

Oddly, Dirk is one of the extreme few.

u given dirk to much credit here, duncan 03 team who was an allstar beside him?

even if u count it, its still 1:1 duncan and dirk with no allstar
all said and done duncan 4>!

[stretch]

Dirk's run is amazing, but Tyson Chandler is a borderline All-Star because his presence is hard to quantify offensively and defensively. He had a huge impact on those Hornets teams and made CP3 alot better too and he's doing the same for the Knicks. But outside of that, a ton of role players on that Mavs team. Unreal what Dirk did that season. True warrior and a champion. That's one of my favorite teams of all time, mostly because of Dirk and TC.

Point wasn't to prop up Dirk, but rather show how history has proven you need 1-2 other all-star or superstar caliber players to get the job done. Especially if you want to do so multiple times. Not sure if that Mavs team could have won more than 1 championship without another star player. Much like the Pistons couldn't win more than one after their magical run in 04.

[stretch]

u given dirk to much credit here, duncan 03 team who was an allstar beside him?

even if u count it, its still 1:1 duncan and dirk with no allstar
all said and done duncan 4>!

lol butthurt and completely missing the point

[Pelicans78]

That's all fine and good, but you shouldn't be able to remove the MVP from the team and they still win. The Heat would still be bad ass with Wade, Bosh and Ray Allen (not to mention Udonis Haslem, Lewis, Birdman, Battier, etc..)

To me, the MVP is the one who makes the difference on his team. That's why people were saying he would be giving up the MVP if he went to Miami, not just because of touches, but because two super powers on the same team cannot produce a league MVP based on how it's almost always been decided.

But Magic won MVPs with Kareem (a top 5 player All-time) and Worthy. Bird did the same. And the Heat would be very good without Lebron, but I'm not sure that team would win a le.

[TDMVPDPOY]

for all you guys, the term allstar to label some players...at the end of the day its all a popularity contest to make the team

butthere are players that dont make the team, have the talent level of an allstar player thats not recognize by the viewers...

[Pelicans78]

Point wasn't to prop up Dirk, but rather show how history has proven you need 1-2 other all-star or superstar caliber players to get the job done. Especially if you want to do so multiple times. Not sure if that Mavs team could have won more than 1 championship without another star player. Much like the Pistons couldn't win more than one after their magical run in 04.

True. Its almost impossible to have a dynasty without multiple All-Stars/superstars.

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol butthurt and completely missing the point

just got banned from upstairs hahaha fkn butthurt wankers celebrating over a win

[DMC]

lol MJ with Pippen/Rodman

lol Magic with Kareem/Worthy

lol Bird with McHale/Parish

lol Duncan with Parker/Ginobili

lol Shaq with Kobe

lol Kobe with Bynum/Gasol

How many superstars have won championships in the past 30 years without an all-star at his side?

Oddly, Dirk is one of the extreme few.

lol Rodman

Magic was drafted as was Worthy. They didn't stack.

Parker/Ginobili were nothing when they joined the Spurs. They weren't contributing much before Duncan already had 2 MVPs. He didn't use them to win the first two, Speedy Claxton got more time than Tony.

Kobe wasn't nearly as prolific when Shaq won his MVP. Gasol wasn't the 2nd best player in the game, never won a Finals MVP. Dirk won with no help. Only Lebron has won with far and away the most talented roster in the league due to stacking, not drafting. Drafting and developing talent is different. It's not the same as stacking. Stop pretending it is.

His stats are MVP worthy, but the fact he's on a team that he intentionally stacked means he's not as big of a player for that team as he was for Cleveland. He was God in Cleveland. He's better than Wade but Wade was getting them to the playoffs every year.

[stretch]

lol Rodman

lol greatest rebounder ever, and among the best defenders ever

Magic was drafted as was Worthy. They didn't stack.

Parker/Ginobili were nothing when they joined the Spurs. They weren't contributing much before Duncan already had 2 MVPs. He didn't use them to win the first two, Speedy Claxton got more time than Tony.

Kobe wasn't nearly as prolific when Shaq won his MVP. Gasol wasn't the 2nd best player in the game, never won a Finals MVP. Dirk won with no help. Only Lebron has won with far and away the most talented roster in the league due to stacking, not drafting. Drafting and developing talent is different. It's not the same as stacking. Stop pretending it is.

His stats are MVP worthy, but the fact he's on a team that he intentionally stacked means he's not as big of a player for that team as he was for Cleveland. He was God in Cleveland. He's better than Wade but Wade was getting them to the playoffs every year.

WGAF??? They (and all those other teams you mentioned) still had multiple star talent players. It's not like Magic and others won championships with talent. They all needed superstar talent. You are knocking Lebron for not winning without star talent, but no one has.

[TDMVPDPOY]

gasol was never the 2nd best or whatever in the league, but he was a bonafide 19/10 franchise player where the grizz made the playoffs 3 times ina row correct?...still was a very good player whatever was built around him

to say his not good is lame, didnt he lead spain NT to something b4 winnin 2 rings with the fakers

[HarlemHeat37]

DMC's takes are ing terrible, tbh..

I've never seen so many ty takes from a poster that constantly criticizes the posts of other posters, tbh..

[stretch]

DMC's takes are ing terrible, tbh..

I've never seen so many ty takes from a poster that constantly criticizes the posts of other posters, tbh..

i honestly dont know why im arguing with him

bored i guess lol

[Cry Havoc]

Absolutely. No way Pippen becomes a top 50, no one even really notices him if he doesn't play along side MJ. He would have been a great player still, but he's associated with the 2 3peats.

What the . One of the best wing defenders ever, if not THE best, and when Jordan retired Pippen was not only a lockdown defender but ~22 points, 8+ rebounds, 5+ assists, 3 steals, and a block, on 48% shooting per game? You think all-time elite defenders who can also score and dish the rock fall out of trees on a daily basis?

[TDMVPDPOY]

What the . One of the best wing defenders ever, if not THE best, and when Jordan retired Pippen was not only a lockdown defender but ~22 points, 8+ rebounds, 5+ assists, 3 steals, and a block, on 48% shooting per game? You think all-time elite defenders who can also score and dish the rock fall out of trees on a daily basis?

whats strange about this...he peaked late in his career untill grant hill was drafted and started to post the same stats or better...early iin his career which overlapse with pippens prime, where pippen became demoted to him, still one point in pippens career he was a mvp candidate...i think it was the year he wore red shoes at the allstar game

[DMC]

What the . One of the best wing defenders ever, if not THE best, and when Jordan retired Pippen was not only a lockdown defender but ~22 points, 8+ rebounds, 5+ assists, 3 steals, and a block, on 48% shooting per game? You think all-time elite defenders who can also score and dish the rock fall out of trees on a daily basis?

He was a great defender. He doesn't see the top 50 all time without Jordan.

[DMC]

lol greatest rebounder ever, and among the best defenders ever



WGAF??? They (and all those other teams you mentioned) still had multiple star talent players. It's not like Magic and others won championships with talent. They all needed superstar talent. You are knocking Lebron for not winning without star talent, but no one has.

Lebron should never get a league MVP award after stacking with Wade and Bosh, I don't care what his stats are or how many rings he ends up with. It's people like CP3, Tony and DRose (if he was playing) that make all the difference in the world for their respective teams. Lebron does, but he had to have the 2nd best player in the league at the time in Wade, and then another AS in Bosh. Now they end up with Ray Allen as well? No MVP. Sorry. Finals MVP, ok. If Lebron was that valuable to his team they wouldn't need all the other AS talent.

You're flailing away at an argument I haven't made. I said nothing about winning with no other talent. I said exactly what I quoted above.

[DMC]

DMC's takes are ing terrible, tbh..

I've never seen so many ty takes from a poster that constantly criticizes the posts of other posters, tbh..

Most of the forum comes and goes with the ebb and flow of the overall fan base, they call Lebron "Lebrick, Lechoke, Lebroom" and call him Robin when he went to Miami. The same people suck his after a couple of years and he's winning. No one here in their right mind thought Lebron wouldn't win a ring in Miami. I defended his decision, kept a level head all the while and I still have it. Some of you are fickle as , and you wouldn't know a good take if it snuck up your skirts and bit you on your pussies.

Lol the "krew" can't hang.