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No one did any better against the Heat. Don't know how we only lost by 5 in that one.
I gave him credit. Skeptic said that "there was no way that Patty could've done what De Colo did tonight", and I don't believe it to be that hard to get 9 points and 7 assists in 33 minutes of playing time. Remember Mills against the Suns?
No one did any better against the Heat. Don't know how we only lost by 5 in that one.
Great points. I didn't see the game and only followed it online through the play by plays. It didn't make sense that the Spurs were outrebounded by so much even as the Bulls were "stolen"/ Turnovered so many times either. In that way, it was a weird box score.In rewatching the game, the rebounding issue isn't really that bothersome. The Bulls were sending four players to the offensive glass. Sometimes all five (). It was a decent plan since the Spurs were vulnerable, especially after Splitter turned his ankle. However, that plan eventually backfired for the Bulls.
1. By send almost everyone to the offensive glass, whenever the Spurs got a rebound, they had numbers going the other way. The result was a ton of mismatches created in early offense and that led to easier than normal shots that a team typically gets against the Bulls.
2. With all those mismatches going the other way, the Spurs rarely had to run deep into their offensive sets. That allowed the Spurs to avoid turnovers.
3. The Spurs were sending almost no one to the offensive boards. While that made it almost impossible for the Spurs to get offensive rebounds, it forced Chicago to play at a sloooooooow pace. The Spurs, even this depleted version of the team, has enough cohesion to play solid halfcourt defense.
4. Since the Bulls had to walk it up and allow the Spurs to get set, it's no wonder they finished with much more turnovers.
So, yeah, we can fret about the rebounding but in reality it was a non-issue. Thibs tried to attack a vulnerability but that it turn made life easier for the Spurs in other areas.
Now that you say it, it makes a lot of sense. Thibs was out-coached by Pop. Pop was being Pop- conservative on Offensive rebounding, conservative on rest, and staying within his system. Thibs on the other hand continues to err on the side of adventure by playing his vets even when injured, relied up on offensive rebounding and really played like a puppet into Pop's hands.
Look up the boxscore from that game. Again, you are discrediting Nando and a few others now.
Kawhi looked really comfortable pulling up from the right baseline early on. Neal came up big imo... made a bunch of tough unassisted shots
if the spurs win a championship the big 3 will need all the help they can get and the roleplayers will have to play like they did tonight minus the pathetic effort on the glass
Duncan isnt playing 48 minutes a night and Popovich seems to play Splitter with the bench less now and opts for a Blair/Diaw/Bonner bench frontline more
rebounding from the second unit will be a problem for 10-15 minutes a night even if Splitter is playing with them
he just isnt that good to anchor a defense and grab rebounds like a Duncan can
having only one competent defensive rebounder on the frontline isnt something to count on
and vs the two teams that matter, OKC and Miami the spurs tall lineup could become useless
the advantage they have going big is to beat the smaller teams by taking it in the paint and beating them on the glass
OKC/Miami can go "small" with Lebron/Durant at the 4 and abuse whoever Splitter is suppose to guard while matching SA on the rebounding side since those two will probably outrebound Splitter in the playoffs
also should add that the spurs are good at beating up on bad teams
only have 2 loses vs -.500 teams and one was a fully healthy pelicans team which is probably a 7th/8th seed
vs the knicks the spurs were outrebounded 35-48 when they went with camby/chanlder
vs the clippers 29-46 and then again 42-52
vs okc 39-48 and then 37-49
the good teams all seem to have the rebounding edge vs the spurs
Last edited by freetiago; 02-12-2013 at 04:05 AM.
tbh, memory was a bit hazy (The game DID occur over 2 and a half months a go). I suppose De Colo played better then than he did last night. Against the Heat, De Colo had 15 points (50% shooting), 6 rebounds and 5 assists in the same amount of playing time.
As I said, not that hard to replicate or do better than De Colo's 9 points on 27% shooting and 7 assists when you get over 30 minutes of playing time. Against the Heat, Neal played 32 minutes 20 points and 7 assists on 35 % shooting.
Patty Mills had 27 points and 5 assists against the Suns in about 33 minutes of playing time.
Again, I'm just diagreeing with Skeptic's comment that it's impossible for Mills to do what De Colo did tonight. I'm not saying that De Colo played bad.
I'm back to firmly on the De Colo bandwagon for backup point guard. I've changed my mind a lot this year but his instincts on both ends, his intangibles and his ability to make plays are all aspects that could help steal a playoff game. If Pop gives him sufficient room to grow, I could see De Colo playing a role similar to 2011 Greivis Vasquez. Back then, he was raw, not completely comfortable at point guard, not especially efficient but he made things happen for Memphis and that activity alone was valuable against the Spurs.
De Colo will have to learn how to play next to Ginobili (it's been awkward thus far) and he has to cut down on his turnovers ... but he has a quality about his game that could be useful come the playoffs when things tend to stagnate.
As for Mills, I like him as the lightning in a bottle change of pace. It seems like his best games this year have been when Pop puts him in cold during the second half and Mills is able to catch the other team by surprise.
Neal? I don't know what to do with him right now. He has played better these last two games but his fit when (hopefully not "if") this team gets healthy is awkward.
?
Are you talking about with Duncan out? Well, yeah, Splitter can't play with the starters and the bench right now
That's cherry picking bad games, most of which were early in the season. Bottomline is the Spurs were great defensive rebounding team last season. They've been a great defensive rebounding team virtually Pop's entire era as coach. They were great in the playoffs last season even though the Spurs ran into strong rebounding teams. They had a slow start this year (mostly because Splitter was soft to begin the season and the simultaneous injuries to Kawhi and Jack) but have been great again over the last two months.
Again, this team has several potential fatal flaws. Defensive rebounding is way down on the list ... if it even makes the list. When healthy, this team has too many plus rebounders (Duncan, Splitter when he's at power forward, Leonard, Ginobili, Jackson at times, De Colo's pretty damn good at rebounding, Green can rebound when he wants, etc.) for it to be a major concern.
On the subject of rebounders, how much longer do you think Bonner will be in the rotation? He's not a very good rebounder, and doesn't really provide much on the defensive end against other 4s. Do you think Pop wil insert Baynes or re-insert Blair into the backup rotation before the end of the season??
Are you talking about with Duncan out? Well, yeah, Splitter can't play with the starters and the bench right now
That's cherry picking bad games, most of which were early in the season. Bottomline is the Spurs were great defensive rebounding team last season. They've been a great defensive rebounding team virtually Pop's entire era as coach. They were great in the playoffs last season even though the Spurs ran into strong rebounding teams. They had a slow start this year (mostly because Splitter was soft to begin the season and the simultaneous injuries to Kawhi and Jack) but have been great again over the last two months.
Again, this team has several potential fatal flaws. Defensive rebounding is way down on the list ... if it even makes the list. When healthy, this team has too many plus rebounders (Duncan, Splitter when he's at power forward, Leonard, Ginobili, Jackson at times, De Colo's pretty damn good at rebounding, Green can rebound when he wants, etc.) for it to be a major concern.
Honestly when everyone was healthy, Bonner wasn't in the rotation.
I think after the All-Star break if everyone is back then we don't be seeing much of Bonner/Blair/Baynes except in garbage time and "rest games".
Maybe it ain't hard, but it sure ain't easy either... here is the list of players this season averaging over 9 points and 7 assists:
Rk Player Season Age Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% 1 Russell Westbrook 2012-13 24 OKC NBA 51 51 35.6 7.9 18.7 1.3 3.9 5.4 6.7 1.4 3.8 5.2 8.1 2.0 0.3 3.5 2.3 22.5 .425 .325 .797 2 Tony Parker 2012-13 30 SAS NBA 50 50 32.9 8.2 15.4 0.4 1.1 3.8 4.7 0.3 2.6 3.0 7.7 0.9 0.1 2.5 1.3 20.7 .535 .400 .824 3 Jrue Holiday 2012-13 22 PHI NBA 45 45 38.5 7.9 17.2 1.0 3.0 2.5 3.3 1.0 3.2 4.2 8.8 1.5 0.4 4.0 2.3 19.3 .457 .346 .776 4 Deron Williams 2012-13 28 BRK NBA 50 50 36.5 5.6 13.5 1.8 5.2 3.8 4.4 0.4 2.8 3.3 7.6 0.9 0.5 2.8 2.5 16.7 .413 .347 .855 5 Chris Paul 2012-13 27 LAC NBA 41 41 33.0 5.7 12.1 1.2 3.4 3.9 4.3 0.6 2.9 3.5 9.4 2.5 0.0 2.2 2.0 16.5 .474 .348 .888 6 Jameer Nelson 2012-13 30 ORL NBA 40 40 35.5 5.5 13.8 2.2 6.3 1.8 2.0 0.5 3.5 3.9 7.5 1.3 0.2 2.7 3.0 14.9 .397 .348 .910 7 John Wall 2012-13 22 WAS NBA 16 9 28.1 5.6 13.3 0.1 0.8 3.4 4.3 0.5 2.7 3.2 7.1 0.9 0.7 3.2 2.7 14.6 .420 .083 .797 8 Greivis Vasquez 2012-13 26 NOH NBA 51 51 34.2 5.6 12.9 1.1 3.1 1.6 2.1 0.5 4.1 4.6 9.4 0.7 0.1 3.3 2.4 14.1 .437 .365 .769 9 Rajon Rondo 2012-13 26 BOS NBA 38 38 37.4 5.9 12.2 0.3 1.3 1.6 2.4 1.1 4.4 5.6 11.1 1.8 0.2 3.9 2.5 13.7 .484 .240 .645 10 Steve Nash 2012-13 38 LAL NBA 28 28 33.3 4.5 8.6 1.1 2.6 2.0 2.2 0.5 2.4 2.9 7.4 0.7 0.1 2.6 1.4 12.1 .521 .438 .918 11 Jose Calderon 2012-13 31 TOT NBA 49 34 28.5 4.3 8.9 1.8 4.0 1.0 1.1 0.3 2.0 2.3 7.4 0.7 0.1 1.7 1.3 11.3 .482 .434 .904
And I think you're misunderstanding what he's saying: we're not looking at the boxscore, we're looking at the at ude on the court, poise, leadership, "intangibles" and playmaking abilities. In all those categories De Colo is a better player than Mills, with a higher ceiling. That doesn't mean Mills isn't a good or useful player, simply that he doesn't have the skills that are highly valued in a back-up PG. Mills role is likely to be different as he brings energy, passion, determination and streak shooting--all skills that are also important, but for another position (namely back-up SG, especially when Neal goes cold).Again, I'm just diagreeing with Skeptic's comment that it's impossible for Mills to do what De Colo did tonight. I'm not saying that De Colo played bad.
Jeremy Lin: 12.5 points and 6 assists
Jarret Jack: ~13 points and 6 assists
Stephen Curry: 21 points and ~7 assists
Goran Dragic: 14 points and 6 assists
Jeff Teague: 14 points and 7 assists
Kemba Walker: 17 points and 6 assists
George Hill: 15 points and 5 assists
Raymond Felton: 15 points and 6 assists
Brandon Jennings: 19 points and 6 assists
Damian Lillard: 18 points and 7 assists
Kyrie Irving: 24 points and 5 assists
9 points and 7 assists on 27% shooting isn't anything special. Almost all starting point guards in the league produce more than that on a game basis.
I can agree with this, although I'm not really sure how "leadership" can be compared on the court. When Ginobili comes back, De Colo and Mills would be relegated to their third and fourth string roles (with Cojo as the 5th string guard). I just wish that the Spurs would address this situation. It's really killing these guys' confidence and also holding them back from improving as a basketball player.
Last edited by Boomersgold; 02-12-2013 at 05:48 AM.
One of my favorite moments was at the 3:47 mark.. Kawhi had the ball, he had Deng and Boozer near him (he chose not to use the Diaw screen) and he stopped and popped and before the basket went in he was already back pedaling cause he knew it was going down. That kind of confidence was great to see from him. I hope we see many more nights where Kawhi can get going like that again, even when everyone is healthy.
The biggest win of the season, Spurs beat one of the best in the east with their bench, and nary a peep on ESPN, SI or Fox Sports.
I mentioned this before. Splitter is below average as rebounder. IMO this is his weakest skill at the game. I really like to see him improving in this department before giving him anything close to near max deal.
Also Spurs need to do a better job of keeping Splitter involved offensively. Sometimes it seems he spends 5 minutes without touching the ball in the offensive end.
Thanks as always for the game thoughts timvp
Couldn't see the game as my cable went out and didn't come back till an hour after the game ended (PVR'd the repeat on NBA TV and will check it out later today). Going by the boxscore, seems like Nando had a nice game but does his poor shooting not worry you?
It seems like he has the potential to be a decent shooter but maybe his mechanics are a bit off? I guess his solid playmaking can making up for his mediocre shooting as a backup PG.
Neal stopped trying to play team basketball and turned into a chucker in the 4th. I'm glad he got yanked. I know I was calling for it.
I've also been firmly on the DeColo bandwagon, I think he would make a great backup point guard and potential starter someday in the nba. Mills and Neal are basically the same player except one is more comfortable at the "2" and the other at the "1", and neither have exceptional handles nor can they distribute well (unlike DeColo). Although their games overlap each other and both play essentially the same role, I do see a future for Neal in SA as the backup SG once Ginobili retires, Mills not so much.
He really frustrates me..
I'd like to see the grades with or without big 3 . They are our players too like TP,Manu or TD.
Yes,he never was a great rebounder.
In the other hand he could average 15+ppg easily if he gets the ball in the paint
True. plus Chicago , i believe is the only playoff team in either conference with a worse home record (15-12) than road record (15-9).
This is more because defensively, Splitter's probably a PF with good awareness as opposed to a proper 5. Not so much that he's just "not good" tbh. TD's a transcendent big who can play either the 4 or the 5 at a high level. Splitter is similar in that he can also play both big positions and produce, but unlike prime TD, Tiago's weaknesses are more pronounced when he's exclusively playing the 5 defensively or the 4 offensively.
It's been pretty up and down but he's shown that with TD out he can anchor a defense (while playing with Diaw, Blair, and Bonner as "bigs") if he's needed to and that the team can still win games with him doing so. He'll be fine anchoring the second unit for 10-15 a game. I think the Detroit game might be skewing people's sense of perspective here. Despite their record though, the Pistons have multiple good bigs and crafty perimeter players who can penetrate. Have people forgotten what TD looked like against Memphis when McDyess, Blair, and Bonner were the only bigs playing with him? Problems are bound to happen when you face teams like that with only 1 true big on your roster.
The rebounding is troublesome but with TD taking minutes away from Blair/Bonner (which is when the differential seems to go from 5-7 to 12) and guys like Manu, KL, and Jax back I'm honestly not that worried about our defensive rebounding. Spurs are pretty much always going to be a poor offensive rebounding team due to the way Pop has the system set up.
Gotta disagree with your disagreement. Except for the part where I get called a "he", will_spurs is spot on.Again, I'm just diagreeing with Skeptic's comment that it's impossible for Mills to do what De Colo did tonight. I'm not saying that De Colo played bad.
I like Mills a lot as a player but in terms of fit, he just can't run an offense like De Colo can. The two times this season that Parker has sat out (Miami and Phoenix), De Colo in spite of his rawness and inexperience was able to step in. His strengths as a player allowed him to manage the game, distribute the ball, and keep the offense looking organized which is more than we can say for CoJo as a rookie or Mills the whole time he's been here.
Compare this to the game last season in Phoenix where Mills was the primary point guard and the difference is simply night and day.
Mills put up points rather inefficiently (which can change from game to game so I don't blame him for that) but the biggest issue to me was that he just didn't have a good feel for when to pass and the team offense looked chaotic with him running the show. His play as a point guard was so hard to watch that I was thrilled to see CoJo sub in and I was thinking very seriously about the pros and cons of Diaw running the sets with Parker out. Patty's gotten a bit better since then but like I said earlier, remember all the complaints we have about Neal running the point? Mills presents all the same problems right down to the hit and miss defense (though Patty at least hustles), the mediocre handles, and the subpar court vision. Do you really want to see that in the playoffs?
If De Colo can learn how to play with Manu, I say we give him the reigns. That playmaking and poise could be a difference maker against teams like the Clippers where Manu might struggle running the second unit's offense. The bench is more potent if it has the option of taking Manu off the ball at times.
He was most likely backpedaling because it is drilled into his head by Pop to always get back on defense as the main priority over crashing the glass.
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