Your argument is that Lebron can't win MVP because he joined a team that has Wade..then once other posters provided several examples of superstars with talented supporting casts, you moved the goalposts to "those players were drafted, they didn't stack"(
Then you ignore that Pippen/Phil led a team to 55 wins and a game 7 against the eventual East champs..I assume you will dismiss this and credit Pippen's development at that point to playing with Jordan
Lebron has the best advanced +/- numbers in the NBA the past 2 seasons..I'm fully prepared for you to dismiss this, tbh, just saying..
How the would you know? Have you ever watched Pippen play? You're saying a top 20 player of all-time wouldn't be top 50 without MJ? What the ? Pippen played FOR TWO SEASONS WITHOUT MJ and was an MVP candidate.
Just. Just stop. It hurts my brain to try to follow your logic.
Sure, I am probably older than you. MVP candidates don't automatically make it into the top 50 all time. No reason to get upset about it, Mensa bro.
A bit of a tangent here, but Scottie Pippen isn't and never at any point was a top 20 player all time in the history of the league.
Lebron is the best player in the game. That's not in question. Because his team is so stacked, his effect is buffered. He could be out a week, do they lose every game? Probably not. There are guys who's teams would not win a game if they weren't playing. Collectively the Heat do better, and Lebron could take the Bobcats to the ECF, but he chose Miami and knew Bosh was going to join, so he accepted the safety net.
Then you ignore that Pippen/Phil led a team to 55 wins and a game 7 against the eventual East champs..I assume you will dismiss this and credit Pippen's development at that point to playing with Jordan
Lebron has the best advanced +/- numbers in the NBA the past 2 seasons..I'm fully prepared for you to dismiss this, tbh, just saying..
So it depends on how you want to judge MVP. It's not always been judged by " best in the game". Steve Nash was never the best player in the game yet he won it twice in a row. He cannot play a lick of defense, but he was such a key part of that franchise that his presence on the floor meant the difference between a win and a loss.
Why does Pippen's "pretty good" stats sans MJ make him top 50 all time? You guys are showing that Pippen was a good player without MJ. That doesn't equate to top 50 all time. There are plenty beyond the top 50 who were franchise players.
Take LeBron and put him on the Bobcats and they're in the playoffs. That right there is your MVP.
I always thought that MVP should go to the best player on the team with the best record at the end of the regular season. It's a regular season record people, wgaf about stats and whatnot. You reward the best player on the team with the best record. Just like you reward the finals mvp based on what he did in the finals, and not what he did the previous 3 rounds.
To summarize it: Everybody is jealous of the Spurs natural(got players through the draft) homegrown , while everybody else had to use extenze to get where they are at. Just to beat the Spurs and their system after 07, the league got back into stacking super teams together. Didn't Kevin Garnett say that it was the reason that league officials started to do that?
Two incredibly stupid posts above me. Bravo.
You think Tim Duncan should give his 2002 League MVP to Chris Webber?
I bet you knew that Ginobili and Parker would turn out to be hof's when they got drafted.
We should give Tony Parker back-to-back-to-back MVPs. Sounds about right.I bet you knew that Ginobili and Parker would turn out to be hof's when they got drafted.
BTW, were you deprived of oxygen during childbirth?
Maybe. Chris Webber had a good year in 02, and his Kings almost dethroned the lakers. The Spurs got their asses kicked that year. Malone shouldn't of had it in 99. That was Duncan's award that year.
An argument I didn't make.
Pippen never won a regular season MVP, never won a Finals MVP, has 1 ASG MVP (woo hoo), holds records for 3pt attempts and steals.
If not for MJ, Pippen would have played out his career pretty much top 15 in the league, but never would have been the best in the league at any time, and would have never been the 2nd best in the league at any time. Same is true for Rodman. He's a rebounding freak, but without the association with Michael Jordan/Zeke, he's just a stat freak like Kevin Love.
So what is your argument? Simply if you have the fortune of being drafted on a team with All-Stars, you deserve MVP, but if you moved teams to be in the same exact situation, you don't?
What kind of ing logic is this?
way to avoid the questions. expected, though.
None of the drafted guys were MVPs when they were drafted. They developed into MVPs despite being in the presence of all stars.
MVPs who stack intentionally are diluting their MVP rating, but increasing the effectiveness of their team. Shaq on the same team with Hakeem would have to share spotlight with Hakeem. Magic and MJ on the same team, who wins the MVP? Since it's diluted between them, a 3rd player can actually win.
Pretty sure I never mentioned "deserve". Like Stretch, your game is to build strawmen and then fight those. I was clear in my original statement. Learn to read, and grow some balls and stop using an alias to debate.
Last edited by DMC; 02-12-2013 at 04:12 PM.
What the does 'developing' into an MVP mean 'despite' all stars even mean?? You don't think it helped Magic and Bird's chances of winning the MVP that were already on stacked teams?
Larry Bird won 3 consecutive MVPs on a team where 2 big men All-stars were averaging about 20/9 and 18/11. What your argument is saying, that is if Larry Bird rather joined the Celtics in '83 and had the exact same effect on the team, this counts for less because he's 'diluting' his worth? This is just some ing re ed metric you just invented to justify your displeasure with LeBron winning, even though he's the best player in the league and is the offensive and defensive focal point of his team, even if Bosh and Wade on it.
And shut the up old coot, I'm the Juice. Deal with it.
Like I said, you're arguing something I didn't say. No wonder you hide behind an alias, you're a ing idiot.What the does 'developing' into an MVP mean 'despite' all stars even mean?? You don't think it helped Magic and Bird's chances of winning the MVP that were already on stacked teams?
Larry Bird won 3 consecutive MVPs on a team where 2 big men All-stars were averaging about 20/9 and 18/11. What your argument is saying, that is if Larry Bird rather joined the Celtics in '83 and had the exact same effect on the team, this counts for less because he's 'diluting' his worth? This is just some ing re ed metric you just invented to justify your displeasure with LeBron winning, even though he's the best player in the league and is the offensive and defensive focal point of his team, even if Bosh and Wade on it.
And shut the up old coot, I'm the Juice. Deal with it.
No one knows what your geriatric ass said, because you constantly run away from your idiotic takes when called out.
"Look at me! I have a monkey and a basketball in my avatar! MONKEYBALL, get it? Am I cool now?"
lol DM
lol relegated and regulated by an old man
*Ahem*
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