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Kenny saying "this is the year Horry misses"
Ends up being the year Horry missed
Not sure if I can post copyrighted videos on this site, so I won’t, but if you want to check it out, just go to YouTube, type in “Spurs Lakers 2003 Game 6” and you will find that game.
Just a phenomenal game, and brings me back the good ole days of the Spurs from a decade ago.
The reason I made this thread is to talk about some of the revisionist history that has pervaded the Internet over the last ten years:
1. Duncan wasn’t as dominant as Shaq during their respective primes – I actually thought that too, but that was just utterly false. Just watching that game, Duncan was a beast and a man possessed. He didn’t post numbers as gaudy as Shaq’s, but he was every bit as dominant. Duncan’s numbers suffered somewhat due to the Spurs slower pace, but also because of the way the offense was constructed.
He was pretty much the entire Spurs offense, and his defense was heads and shoulders above Shaq. The entire Lakers defense would collapse on him, and Duncan would still be able to score or create despite it.
2. Shaq and Kobe shared equal billing from 2003 to 2004 – this is just utter crap. Shaq was double or triple teamed every single time he touched the ball, Kobe was NEVER double teamed. Sure there was help when Kobe drove the lane, but in general, it was Bowen vs. Kobe straight up, with the entire Spurs defense concentrating on Shaq. It’s obvious by looking at the game. There’s a reason Fisher was shooting lights out (29 for 47 from 3, that’s 62% for the entire playoffs) in the playoffs, and that reason is Shaq.
3. Horry stunk up the joint that year – Horry was horrible from the outside, but overall, he is actually decent on offense. He played smart, he defended Duncan relatively well, he passed well, and he scored well on 2-pointers. He was but a manufactured scrape goat for the Lakers demise
4. Parker and Manu was playing like HoFers that year – no, they weren’t even playing like All-stars that year, Parker was really green, and made mistakes after mistakes, along with having absolutely no-outside shot. Manu was a whirling dervish who would follow up a great play with a hair-pulling bad play. They showed great potential, yes, but they were most definitely not championship quality guards that year. In fact, the 2nd best Spur that year was Stephen Jackson.
5. Robinson was washed up – On offense, yes, he couldn’t/didn’t do much at that point. On defense though, Robinson, along with Duncan, just anchored that historically good defense that year. His ability to give some resistance to the at-prime Shaq, slowing him down on the first touch allowed the entire Spurs defense to collapse on Shaq and disrupt the Lakers offense.
Just a highly enjoyable game (and series, if I remembered correctly). The Spurs were playing almost perfect basketball, and were a team possessed.
If they play that series 100 times, I am not sure the Spurs will win over half of it, because Shaq was really that dominant, and with a defense that pretty much lets any non-Shaq player gets his, the Spurs were essentially picking its own poison. Unfortunately for Stern and the media, the Spurs picked the right poison this time around.
Kenny saying "this is the year Horry misses"
Ends up being the year Horry missed
From the start of Duncan's career, the only years I'd say Shaq was clearly better were 1998, 2000 and 2001. Duncan was better in 1999 and 2003 onward. The closest year is probably 2002 but I think it's fair to give that year to Duncan as well. Their stats when they faced each other in the playoffs that year:
Shaquille O'Neal
21.4 points
12.2 rebounds
3.2 assists
3.0 blocks
Tim Duncan
29.0 points
17.2 rebounds
4.6 assists
3.2 blocks
So, yeah, that series was emphatically in Duncan's favor even though the Spurs lost.
Truth. To survive against prime Shaq, you basically had to double team from the start of a possession and then send a third body at him when he got the ball. No one ever doubled Kobe. Tbh, most of the time you were relieved when Kobe got the ball because prime Shaq was basically an automatic bucket when he caught the ball with good post position.2. Shaq and Kobe shared equal billing from 2003 to 2004 – this is just utter crap. Shaq was double or triple teamed every single time he touched the ball, Kobe was NEVER double teamed. Sure there was help when Kobe drove the lane, but in general, it was Bowen vs. Kobe straight up, with the entire Spurs defense concentrating on Shaq. It’s obvious by looking at the game. There’s a reason Fisher was shooting lights out (29 for 47 from 3, that’s 62% for the entire playoffs) in the playoffs, and that reason is Shaq.
Savvy signing by the Spurs. Horry was still putting up strong plus/minus numbers despite the fact that he couldn't shoot.3. Horry stunk up the joint that year – Horry was horrible from the outside, but overall, he is actually decent on offense. He played smart, he defended Duncan relatively well, he passed well, and he scored well on 2-pointers. He was but a manufactured scrape goat for the Lakers demise
Mostly agree. Parker was probably a slightly above average starter at that point. Ginobili was a difference-maker but he could taketh as quickly as he giveth.4. Parker and Manu was playing like HoFers that year – no, they weren’t even playing like All-stars that year, Parker was really green, and made mistakes after mistakes, along with having absolutely no-outside shot. Manu was a whirling dervish who would follow up a great play with a hair-pulling bad play. They showed great potential, yes, but they were most definitely not championship quality guards that year. In fact, the 2nd best Spur that year was Stephen Jackson.
Jackson wasn't the second best Spur though. He was pretty damn bad in that Lakers series. He had huge moments in that playoff run but he was also painfully raw at times.
Best players on the 2003 Spurs in order:
1. Duncan
2. Robinson
3. Parker
4. Ginobili
5. Bowen
6. Rose
7. Jackson
8. Willis
9. Claxton
10. Kerr
11. Ferry
12. Smith
Agree. Robinson was still the best defender on the team even in 2003. Duncan was legitimately a First-Team All-NBA defender ... but Robinson was better on D. In 1999, Robinson was the best defender in the NBA. He wasn't quite at that level in 2003 but he was still damn good.5. Robinson was washed up – On offense, yes, he couldn’t/didn’t do much at that point. On defense though, Robinson, along with Duncan, just anchored that historically good defense that year. His ability to give some resistance to the at-prime Shaq, slowing him down on the first touch allowed the entire Spurs defense to collapse on Shaq and disrupt the Lakers offense.
Outside of the Finals wins, this was the most enjoyable series I've watched as a Spurs fan. Easily.Just a highly enjoyable game (and series, if I remembered correctly).
No no, Parker and Manu were HOFers, All Stars and Duncan had a ton of help with those guys.
I watched a few mins of like part 2 or 3. Holy , I forgot how bad ABC was back then, how ing annoying Bill Walton was, and how ty Tom Tolbert is.
Another thing, the Lakers played absolutely differently without Shaq, they become this helter skelter run and gun team that created chaos on defense, and relies heavily on ball movement on offense (that usually doesn't end well for the Lakers). Shaq slows down the pace, because it allows the Lakers to run better sets that gives the Lakers better shots.
On defense, Shaq really wasn't that good. He could be phenomenal in short spurts, but he couldn't sustain it.
you feel better now Spur fan.... wakin up agg this mo'ning? In summary you posted all that to say what you've always said:
Shaq better than Kobe but Duncan better than Kobe and Shaq....
and yet...as Cully would say..all boiled down to:
Kobe 5
TOSB 4
Watch this while you at it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTWTcx7rL78
One more for the road...Sorry Spur fan..but I enjoy watching a prime Kobe...very exciting....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmmgQNz6Lfs
I once watched highlights of Corey Maggette, man, he would have been a HoF if the voting committees are re s and only look into highlights instead of actual games.
You do realize there's a button so that you can imbed videos into posts, right?
Yeah I remember that.... ing Kenny
Still the greatest playoff game in NBA history as far as pure entertainment value goes. That silence of 20 thousand Spurs fans as they slowly die at the dreaded SBC center...priceless
Not as priceless as Timmy shutting down the Great Western Forum with a sweep, tbh...
I really apologize for any Laker fans taking this as a diss. I know you guys are very sensitive right now, and probably on the defensive about anything that would be considered a slight, but that really isn't my intention. I just want to bring legitimate basketball discussions into the NBA forum, and shed some light on much of the revisionist history that has been thrown around like monkey feces the last few years.
I would be more than happy for people to actually watch that game again and argue for or against any of my points. If you guys want to talk about another game, or post some random Kobe highlights, feel free to open up a thread on it. it's not like you are not allowed to do it, are you?
Lakerfan immediately getting butthurt and defensive
Even Spurs fans remember this with rose tinted glasses. Tony was one of the most one-dimensional point guards in the league that year. He had speed, that was it. Couldn't pass very well, couldn't defend, couldn't score consistently if his man backed off him. Your assessment of Manu is accurate, he did more most games to help the team than hurt the team, but he hurt us a lot, too. His hustle alone kept him on the court a lot of times. You had to wonder about Pop's blood pressure with those two guys getting serious minutes in a playoff run.
Duncan seriously put that entire team on his back that year. Yes, we had good role players, but outside of David, that's basically what the entire team was. Just guys who could do one or two things well. It was definitely a cobbled together team with one of the best ever willing them to victory.
Even more impressive is that Duncan scored nearly 30ppg on a team that was only averaging 94-96 per game, if memory serves.
That 2003 playoff run by Timmy was top 5 all time. I always laugh when KG fan decides to qualify KG's superiority by stating that he had worse teammates. While this notion was true from 98-2001, and 2005-2007, Timmy has started alongside some questionable talent. If I remember right, Timmy had a banged up DRob, rookie TP, washed up Steve Smith, and Bowen as his fellow starters in the 2002 playoffs. Even so, he managed to take that team toe to toe with the Lakers (5 game series, but every game was close).
Obviously, 2nd year TP and rookie Manu weren't scrubs, but they weren't All Stars either. Both played an inconsistent brand of ball. Also, by 2003 David was unable to consistently stay on the court (about 24 mpg) due to injuries piling up. Timmy straight up carried that team. I was twelve at the time, so I couldn't appreciate the magnitude of what he did until I looked back several years later, but even my 12-year-old self was wowed by his awesome play.
Good times...
Check this out..I think it's the first time in NBA history that a player went 1 on 5 and literally scored on all 5 Spur defenders at the same time...mutha ing Kobe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzsvbheXscg
They also pump up the roster of the '01 Spurs since that happened to be the year the Lakers swept with Kobe going off. That roster was downright terrible, even more so when Derek Anderson got hurt. I have no idea how they won 58 games, even with a prime Duncan.
Derek Anderson was their second leading scorer that year averaging a very impressive 15 points a game on a stellar 41 percent shooting. Their best wing defender was probably the corpse of Sean Elliott. And players such as Danny Ferry and a senior citizen Terry Porter were "key" rotation players. Really, only David Robinson was worth his salt, but nowhere near his prime.
That's why I maintain Kobe's '01 series as one of the most overrated performances in NBA history. With no Anderson, he didn't have to guard anybody on the perimeter and had all the energy in the world to relentlessly abuse the Spurs' ty perimeter defense.
Now before you start frothing at the mouth, Lakers fans, I think Kobe's '08 series was mightily impressive. With an aging Bowen and a somewhat decent defender in Udoka, Kobe faced at least some resistance. Not to mention, he sometimes guarded Parker and Manu.
Check this out mid...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u7xSy0oP5E
Nice clip, Kool.Check this out..I think it's the first time in NBA history that a player went 1 on 5 and literally scored on all 5 Spur defenders at the same time...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzsvbheXscg
Does your idiot brain realize Kobe shot in that game, wait for it,
9-33
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...511290SAS.html
Only a dip Kirby fan would celebrate a clip from a game in which their hero had his worst game of the season. Bowen shut that boy down.
Nice layup, though.
Mid history will only remember that Kobe literally scored on your whole team 1 5 ..the advanced stats and even the loss is buried in Kobe 5 > TOSB 4Nice clip, Kool.
Does your idiot brain realize Kobe shot in that game, wait for it,
9-33
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...511290SAS.html
Only a dip Kirby fan would celebrate a clip from a game in which their hero had his worst game of the season. Bowen shut that boy down.
Nice layup, though.
Oops. I posted the wrong game.
Here it is:
8-22
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...411050LAL.html
And a Spurs win and eventual chip that year
Kirby missed the playoffs.
But nice layup.
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