The Curious Brainwashing Case of ...

[johnsmith]

I read the op and I have to say, I'm astonished that this thread has gone this far in this forum. How you guys have given any attention to this ing idiot, this awful poster, is totally beyond me. His arguments are ing re ed and he won't acknowledge any opinion other than his own, which is really ing stupid.

He's essentially said that anyone who has been educated doesn't understand him....which is sort of true because no one around here seems to speak re ed quite the way this does.

I leave you with this, SBM, the label I'm giving you is dumb ....I hope your wife gets hit by a bus and you go into a grieving process and stop posting on this site you ing idiot.

[silverblk mystix]

I read the op and I have to say, I'm astonished that this thread has gone this far in this forum. How you guys have given any attention to this ing idiot, this awful poster, is totally beyond me. His arguments are ing re ed and he won't acknowledge any opinion other than his own, which is really ing stupid.

He's essentially said that anyone who has been educated doesn't understand him....which is sort of true because no one around here seems to speak re ed quite the way this does.

I leave you with this, SBM, the label I'm giving you is dumb ....I hope your wife gets hit by a bus and you go into a grieving process and stop posting on this site you ing idiot.

Right on cue....

Like I just said two minutes ago;



People don't want to hear truth...I am reminded of a guy named Jesus who was crucified for "spouting" truth. When people hear truth it affects them in a big way - some react violently...

[Clipper Nation]

People don't want to hear truth...I am reminded of a guy named Jesus who was crucified for "spouting" truth. When people hear truth it affects them in a big way - some react violently...

Comparing yourself to Jesus
Comparing your butthurt rants to the Bible

[Blake]

Right on cue....

Like I just said two minutes ago;



People don't want to hear truth...I am reminded of a guy named Jesus who was crucified for "spouting" truth. When people hear truth it affects them in a big way - some react violently...

Part of the reason jesus got crucified was that he claimed to be the son of god.

obviously he was lying. So are you.

That's why you are getting crucified.

[silverblk mystix]

Misinterpreting again...never compared myself to anyone...except to the brainwashed..yes I compare to all the brainwashed.

Never compared myself to Jesus but whateva......

[silverblk mystix]

Part of the reason jesus got crucified was that he claimed to be the son of god.

obviously he was lying. So are you.

That's why you are getting crucified.

Just another observation;

Blake - you almost conversed normally...then a couple of ass-clowns run in here spouting non-sense and you revert right back to ignorance.

Interesting.

[boutons_deux]

Freddie leroy's story is poorly told, dumbed down I suppose to be understandable to the stupid and ignorant, like ST right-wing forum readers.

Remove all the childish crap of the story and see the core concept:

The "reality" we inherit from is created by parents, friends, society is a fake reality, totally detached from Reality.

(brainwashing is too pejorative, inflammatory, superficial a term. Reality exists underneath, behind the superficial bull reality we live).

Jesus, a true mystic, was in on The Game.

He used his crucifixion, the ultimate, supreme lesson of his existence, as a parable to the show the little "you" must die, be released from little "reality" so the the big You can be Realized and enter into the Big Reality of heaven, nirvana, samadhi, etc, which is a common concept to the mystics of all great religions.

I've yet to meet a single Christian who could answer a simple question: Of all of Jesus lessons, teachings, miracles, parables, actions, what was His Most Important Lesson?

The love to babble the senseless, useless, WRONG "He Died For Our Sins", which just shows they have no ing idea about Jesus.

This of course takes True Faith and Courage to let the little you die so the True You can be Realized (aka, Self-Realization), not the lip service, TV, feel-good, bull "faith" Christians congratulate themselves with. They really are sheeple being totally "brainwashed" by self-proclaimed, but false, sheep herders (who always need more money, hing being of the biggest scams the (poor) Bible writers added).

[Blake]

Just another observation;

Blake - you almost conversed normally...then a couple of ass-clowns run in here spouting non-sense and you revert right back to ignorance.

Interesting.

If we were the only two having this discussion, my posts would be exactly the same.

in fact, I would call bull to your face.

[silverblk mystix]

Freddie leroy's story is poorly told, dumbed down I suppose to be understandable to the stupid and ignorant, like ST right-wing forum readers.

Can't really disagree here...I got my coffee and went off the top of my head and tried to include "practical" applications so the message might be understood -(or not).

Remove all the childish crap of the story and see the core concept:

The "reality" we inherit from is created by parents, friends, society is a fake reality, totally detached from Reality.

(brainwashing is too pejorative, inflammatory, superficial a term. Reality exists underneath, behind the superficial bull reality we live).

Maybe a little part of this is true - but I have to disagree wholeheartedly that Brainwashing is too strong a word. Brainwashing is a serious cancer that disables humans into sleepwalking through life and never really waking -then comes death. The tragedy is never someone dying - the tragedy (usually) is someone dying - who never really lived! (or never woke up).

Jesus, a true mystic, was in on The Game.

I wouldn't go that far - Jesus was probably a way to teach a lesson - and this lesson - became one of the most misunderstood lessons of all time and sadly, probably resulted in more death, misery, wars, blindness, evil - than all the good that came out of it. But who was teaching this lesson - and who was Jesus and who was/is god, etc...and was god/jesus the teacher or did humans invent god/jesus?

He used his crucifixion, the ultimate, supreme lesson of his existence, as a parable to the show the little "you" must die, be released from little "reality" so the the big You can be Realized and enter into the Big Reality of heaven, nirvana, samadhi, etc, which is a common concept to the mystics of all great religions.


Interesting. This might have been another severely misunderstood lesson. Most people concluded wrongly that to "die" to the self meant some kind of harm to yourself - when I think it meant something completely different.


I've yet to meet a single Christian who could answer a simple question: Of all of Jesus lessons, teachings, miracles, parables, actions, what was His Most Important Lesson?

Agreed.

The love to babble the senseless, useless, WRONG "He Died For Our Sins", which just shows they have no ing idea about Jesus.

Don't know - can't speak for others.

This of course takes True Faith and Courage to let the little you die so the True You can be Realized (aka, Self-Realization), not the lip service, TV, feel-good, bull "faith" Christians congratulate themselves with. They really are sheeple being totally "brainwashed" by self-proclaimed, but false, sheep herders (who always need more money, hing being of the biggest scams the (poor) Bible writers added).

Can't disagree here either - except that it is does not actually take courage and faith to die to the self as it does -"sight"
If you don't even know what it means to die to the self then it is not gonna happen. If you discover what it means - then use sight to understand what is preventing you from seeing - it will end up being the most wonderful experience of all.



Thanks for being the first person to even take a look at the message in the story of Freddie instead of the messenger and using ignorance to attack what you don't understand. If any of us are honest we might see a lot of Freddie's story relevant in some ways to our own upbringing. Except here on Spurstalk of course - no one here has ever been wrong, been less than perfect and of course no one here needs to ever, ever learn anything in the future because it is known by a few Spurstalk members only.



Oh, by the way - I sipped my coffee - wrote off the top of my head - didn't edit, didn't re-write - didn't re-write the re-writes -and posted it. I know it is more than rough. It never mattered - the story - the msg - does!


Thanks for the input.

[silverblk mystix]

...oh yeah almost forgot....to BOUTONS;

Had I judged you by all the vitriol, hatred, attacks, insults and labels directed at you and attributed to you here on Spurstalk - I would have completely missed your very informed post....I would have been blind to anything you had to say - ever!




Gotta love this place!

[LnGrrrR]

How am I convinced of my rightness Silverblk? I don't think I've made any declarative statements. I've merely been askin you questions, which is what you say a person should be doing. Should I hold all my questions until the story is done? That seems silly.

Speaking of interpretation, how do you know there arent others on this board that have experienced enlightenment? Is it possible that maybe others have learned to use labels and remain enlightened? Also, it would seem that not using labels would mean not engaging in meaningful conversation (or at the least doing so very slowly).

[Blake]

Can't disagree here either - except that it is does not actually take courage and faith to die to the self as it does -"sight" If you don't even know what it means to die to the self then it is not gonna happen. If you discover what it means - then use sight to understand what is preventing you from seeing - it will end up being the most wonderful experience of all.

give your definition of dying to the self.

I'd like to see it fit both to Jesus and the ”Mystics”.

[Blake]

...oh yeah almost forgot....to BOUTONS;

Had I judged you by all the vitriol, hatred, attacks, insults and labels directed at you and attributed to you here on Spurstalk - I would have completely missed your very informed post....I would have been blind to anything you had to say - ever!




Gotta love this place!

If you miss out because you're so thin skinned and insecure, that's on you, pussy.

Now what you will do here is ignore my questions and logic because I called you a pussy.

If you need help, I will lay it out for you how to die to self and not be an insecure pussy.

[silverblk mystix]

How am I convinced of my rightness Silverblk?
Maybe I mistook it for some of your earlier comments when you seemed to be in attack mode...or it could have been from the "christian" thread that morphed into this one. My bad - if you weren't.


I don't think I've made any declarative statements. I've merely been askin you questions, which is what you say a person should be doing. Should I hold all my questions until the story is done? That seems silly.

Well it would probably be more productive to the both of us if we discussed -Freddie's early story so far---I think it might mirror SOME people's upbringing or at least we might KNOW of some people that are similar to Freddie. I thnik there might be a lot of truth to what happened to him....which I believe happened to most of us.

Speaking of interpretation, how do you know there arent others on this board that have experienced enlightenment?
I am pretty sure most people have touched it, felt it or experienced it a few times in their lives. Some may be much, much further along than most of us...some a little behind...some called it a different thing...some called it god and became religious...I think most of us have had a thing that happened to us that was beautiful and weren't even aware it was a ...moment of...?


Is it possible that maybe others have learned to use labels and remain enlightened? Also, it would seem that not using labels would mean not engaging in meaningful conversation (or at the least doing so very slowly).

I think you may be 100% correct. It is very possible - I don't think I ever said that others were any less than you or I. I thought I was clear when I said this is my story, your story - everyone's story.
I also said that I might have seen some truths and for a moment felt free...but then I fell right back to my programming/brainwashing...

[silverblk mystix]

If you miss out because you're so thin skinned and insecure, that's on you, pussy.


This is pretty ignorant. If you think that trying to remain respectful - until someone insults and attacks you - is thin-skinned or pussy-like I don't know what to tell you here on a msg board. If we were face-to-face I think you would be less apt to say the same things so it really is irrelevant. We aren't face-to-face and you can say anything you want. If it makes you feel manly to be tough here...suit yourself. It affects me the same way.
Now what you will do here is ignore my questions and logic because I called you a pussy.

If you need help, I will lay it out for you how to die to self and not be an insecure pussy.

Yes, please lay it out for me.

[LnGrrrR]

Silverblk, I think the big problem you're having with others is that you're using the term "brainwashed", which usually implies someone trying to actively influence a person's thought processes for a specific end. We aren't told labels to influence a specific end, we are taught them (imho) in order to shortcut that process to learn higher levels. Once we know what a "squirrel" is, we don't necessarily have to discard it. We can still look at a squirrel, appeciate it, discuss it, etc etc.

How would one even discuss anything without labels? If you try to describe, you will eventually use labels, descriptors, etc etc in your description. This is why trying to equate "brainwashing" with "labels" is such a hard sell, because labels are not only essential, but aid us greatly in explaining higher levels of order.

Additionally, you claim that you are brainwashed like all of us, but you often in your posts make it sound as if you have experienced enlightenment far more than the majority of humans out there. (If you don't think you sound this way, perhaps try re-reading your posts with a more open frame of mind.) Saying things like "People don't want to hear the truth" implies that YOU know "the truth", and that we do not. Obviously, that will lead to defensiveness.

There's a fine line between acknowledging the unknowability (I think I made that word up) of things, and acknowledging that everything is inherently unknowable. The two are not the same.

[silverblk mystix]

give your definition of dying to the self.

I'd like to see it fit both to Jesus and the ”Mystics”.

I guess I can give you my "interpretation" or my "knowledge -"so far" of this topic;


Dying to the self is simply dying to the "need" for everything...

Example -remember that line in the bible about "you must hate father, mother, brothers,sisters....blah-blah?

(don't think it said blah-blah- but....)

Well...dying to the self means that you died to needing anything or anyone to be happy. You emptied yourself of needing anything or anyone and you loved all things equally. By seeing them for what they were and for what they prevented you from -which was from seeing clearly and accurately. They were a nightmare...all of them because they prevented you from seeing and you remained an addict.
This is why you are instructed to hate mother, hate father, etc...because if you see how "needing" them blinds you---you will grow to hate them----but not actually hate your family---what you really hate is the "NEEDING"

Once you die to this need or "die to the self" ...


Then you can accurately "see" your family and that is the only way you can "love" someone---by seeing them accurately as they are in that particular moment - not as they are in your memory, in your labels, in your stereotypes....only as they are right now---and then since you don't "NEED" them....you can love them. (When you "need" something or someone---your only interest in them is what you can get from them or how they can be of help in getting your drug---hence the "need" part)

[silverblk mystix]

Silverblk, I think the big problem you're having with others is that you're using the term "brainwashed", which usually implies someone trying to actively influence a person's thought processes for a specific end.

I understand how you would consider it a problem "with others" but this is just part of the territory - if we are all crazy and living in a lunatic asylum (which I agree with 100% by the way - but that is another thread - or not) then everyone SHOULD be upset when I point it out. When I agree with a putdown ---of course I am going to agree--because I understand completely - that I am a crazy lunatic--what else would you expect from a crazy lunatic? This is another world I am talking about -of course - lunatics are going to be offended and hate me when I point out how we are all brainwashed and crazy. I really don't expect people to really understand this part so I will just roll with the hate. It is irrelevant in the end.

We aren't told labels to influence a specific end, we are taught them (imho) in order to shortcut that process to learn higher levels. Once we know what a "squirrel" is, we don't necessarily have to discard it. We can still look at a squirrel, appeciate it, discuss it, etc etc.

Agreed 100% --this is why I keep pointing out ---that I am not referring to mechanical/robotic/mundane tasks....the problem is when we use that system of labeling to apply it to humans, to god, to love, to everything!

How would one even discuss anything without labels? If you try to describe, you will eventually use labels, descriptors, etc etc in your description. This is why trying to equate "brainwashing" with "labels" is such a hard sell, because labels are not only essential, but aid us greatly in explaining higher levels of order.

Additionally, you claim that you are brainwashed like all of us, but you often in your posts make it sound as if you have experienced enlightenment far more than the majority of humans out there. (If you don't think you sound this way, perhaps try re-reading your posts with a more open frame of mind.) Saying things like "People don't want to hear the truth" implies that YOU know "the truth", and that we do not. Obviously, that will lead to defensiveness.

Agreed again. See above statement. I think I would hate SBM too if I had not ever been aware of things....I am still woefully blind.
...but if and when you discover that what we were taught to be true was a lie and you discovered that it was a lie- you would be upset to and want to break out of that prison and warn otherS of this lie...if that makes sense.
I fully expect more hate after saying that.



There's a fine line between acknowledging the unknowability (I think I made that word up) of things, and acknowledging that everything is inherently unknowable. The two are not the same.

I am admittedly pretty ignorant of a lot of things...however...just look at how fast the universe is expanding every minute...we are ignorant of most of it...yet...somehow a mystery such as the word - god- is someday going to be solved?
I can't even begin to imagine what mysteries are out in the universe and however much knowledge any human can ever possess would still never even begin to get near to solve the mysteries of the universe...

If you look at "god/love" similarly - I think it is safe to say that -that -mystery goes even deeper...IMO.

[Blake]

I guess I can give you my "interpretation" or my "knowledge -"so far" of this topic;


Dying to the self is simply dying to the "need" for everything...

Example -remember that line in the bible about "you must hate father, mother, brothers,sisters....blah-blah?

(don't think it said blah-blah- but....)

Well...dying to the self means that you died to needing anything or anyone to be happy. You emptied yourself of needing anything or anyone and you loved all things equally. By seeing them for what they were and for what they prevented you from -which was from seeing clearly and accurately. They were a nightmare...all of them because they prevented you from seeing and you remained an addict.
This is why you are instructed to hate mother, hate father, etc...because if you see how "needing" them blinds you---you will grow to hate them----but not actually hate your family---what you really hate is the "NEEDING"

Once you die to this need or "die to the self" ...


Then you can accurately "see" your family and that is the only way you can "love" someone---by seeing them accurately as they are in that particular moment - not as they are in your memory, in your labels, in your stereotypes....only as they are right now---and then since you don't "NEED" them....you can love them. (When you "need" something or someone---your only interest in them is what you can get from them or how they can be of help in getting your drug---hence the "need" part)

That's not quite what that Bible scripture from Luke 14 meant.

It meant that Jesus wanted disciples to have nothing holding them back from giving 100% to the cause. Property, money, wives, parents, etc should take a back seat to God.

Not many people need everything. Everybody needs something. Everybody.

[Blake]

Yes, please lay it out for me.

Stop being an insecure pussy that gets so ing butthurt when someone says something ” mean” to you.

Lesson 1: It's only mean if you let it be mean. Stick and stones and all that.

[LnGrrrR]

I am admittedly pretty ignorant of a lot of things...however...just look at how fast the universe is expanding every minute...we are ignorant of most of it...yet...somehow a mystery such as the word - god- is someday going to be solved?
I can't even begin to imagine what mysteries are out in the universe and however much knowledge any human can ever possess would still never even begin to get near to solve the mysteries of the universe...

If you look at "god/love" similarly - I think it is safe to say that -that -mystery goes even deeper...IMO.

There are some athiests (like myself) who are agnostic about the ultimate existence of a god. There might be one out there, there might not be, but I don't believe in any god(s). For instance, my earlier question to you regarding the Flying Spaghetti Monster... I'm guessing you don't believe he exists. He MIGHT exist, but that doesn't mean you actively believe in him.

Regarding listing yourself as a lunatic, it greatly discredits your ability to share relevant info if you don't have any specific insight. I might as well listen to a homeless person on the street, or a rich priest, or any other number of people if all our beliefs are on the "same" level. (Especially since the mystics who DO know aren't talking/sharing.)

[silverblk mystix]

That's not quite what that Bible scripture from Luke 14 meant.

It meant that Jesus wanted disciples to have nothing holding them back from giving 100% to the cause. Property, money, wives, parents, etc should take a back seat to God.

Not many people need everything. Everybody needs something. Everybody.

One of the reasons for wars, killings, religious zealotry,etc... this is only two people and we had two different interpretations...

We could both be wrong.

Good example of why the bible and its teachings have hurt as much as helped the planet IMO.

[silverblk mystix]

Stop being an insecure pussy that gets so ing butthurt when someone says something ” mean” to you.

Lesson 1: It's only mean if you let it be mean. Stick and stones and all that.

Can't really connect how my simple statement and your interpretation of it makes any sense...

smh

[silverblk mystix]

There are some athiests (like myself) who are agnostic about the ultimate existence of a god. There might be one out there, there might not be, but I don't believe in any god(s). For instance, my earlier question to you regarding the Flying Spaghetti Monster... I'm guessing you don't believe he exists. He MIGHT exist, but that doesn't mean you actively believe in him.

He might exist...the spaghetti monster...might not...same with god...

Regarding listing yourself as a lunatic, it greatly discredits your ability to share relevant info if you don't have any specific insight. I might as well listen to a homeless person on the street, or a rich priest, or any other number of people if all our beliefs are on the "same" level. (Especially since the mystics who DO know aren't talking/sharing.)

If I ever completed all of Freddie's story - you might begin to get a glimpse as to why I believe 100% that we live in an insane asylum and that we are all lunatics who are running the place.
Since I do believe it--it only makes sense to "label" myself no better than any other lunatic.
A label can be used both ways by lunatics ...I could say, "he is an idiot"...or I could proclaim-"I am a doctor/lawyer/a success/ an astronaut....both are pretty worthless in this sick society.
I believe the insights and/or truth I might have hopefully pointed someone to- would be enough to be worth the time invested.

[Blake]

Can't really connect how my simple statement and your interpretation of it makes any sense...

smh

I'm not talking about your failed interpretation of scripture.

I'm giving you my personal guide towards happiness.

again, stop being a thin skinned pussy begging for respect. Getting respect from others is irrelevant when searching for truth.

Jesus disrespected a load of people. To their faces.