Texas drops close to bottom among states in student spending

[Drachen]

more spending =/ better learning. i once read that pakistan ranked higher than us in science and math. they're up in the middle of the ing mountains writing their homework in the sand...america doesn't have a spending problem imho it has a people problem. starts from the top down. lazy, en led, greedy selfish little es.

I don't disagree completely, but the questions is how are those teachers held. Are they held in high esteem? Are they paid well (obviously relative to their peers)? I think that higher salaries will attract better teachers. Additionally, it will show the rest of society that teaching and indeed educating is a valuable pursuit. This may give teachers SOME power over the variables that you have problems with.

I guess my best case scenario would be to have those PA style salaries in a TX no-union area. That way the dead weight could be cut. Unfortunately, those two situations are pretty much mutually exclusive.

[boutons_deux]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...91P0HJ20130226

Jefferson didn't deny the right to be stupid.

ALEC/VWRC/REpugs/"Christians" absolutely want dumb, ignorant, uneducated, MIS-educated supporters who will swallow their lies and emotional appeals without thought.

[admiralsnackbar]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...91P0HJ20130226

Ah. My mistake.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Which progressives in Texas State Government, specifically, are responsible?

[TeyshaBlue]

Which progressives in Texas State Government, specifically, are responsible?

DarrinS actually has a point and you respond with a stupid question. State govs are not involved in pedagogy.

[admiralsnackbar]

DarrinS actually has a point and you respond with a stupid question. State govs are not involved in pedagogy.

Do the anti-science, anti-history ladies and gentlemen of the TXBOE qualify as progressives?

[boutons_deux]

DarrinS actually has a point and you respond with a stupid question. State govs are not involved in pedagogy.

Sure they are. They appoint the (TX) state board of education that defines the contents of textbooks (like removing references to Thomas Jefferson while including the false equivalence of creationism and evolution), which are, surprise, deeply involved in pedagogy.

[Spurminator]

DarrinS actually has a point and you respond with a stupid question. State govs are not involved in pedagogy.

Wait, what? Yes they are. We have a Board of Education and a Commissioner of Education at the state level. We have a Public Education Committee in the Texas House. And these positions aren't exactly overrun with Progressives.

Obviously local municipalities and districts are heavily involved as well, but this thread is about the State of Texas falling behind other states. If you and DarrinS feel this is solely the responsibility of liberal school districts in Texas, then I'm curious as to what specific liberal policies in Texas school districts have led to Texas students being at a disadvantage to students in other states.

I'm pretty confused as to why you think it's a stupid question. I'm not surprised that Darrin has yet to respond to it either.

[admiralsnackbar]

Sure they are. They appoint the (TX) state board of education that defines the contents of textbooks (like removing references to Thomas Jefferson while including the false equivalence of creationism and evolution), which are, surprise, deeply involved in pedagogy.

Minor niggle: SBOE members are elected.

[101A]

Nice union fearmongering and heaven-forbid that teachers get paid well of course.

According to THIS PA ranks 6th.

THIS has them the same.

Who cares about empirical proof when you can go by ideology?

I've got two children currently enrolled here (Pa); and one who graduated last year.

In addition, I had children enrolled in Texas schools (NISD) for 6 years.

I don't know what ideology you're referring to, my children are living this, and I'm witnessing it; actual evidence is these teachers are not good; and they are, frankly, over paid for the talent and effort they bring to the table.

I have even more evidence that informs my conclusion: My wife is a Chemistry professor at the local state university. As such she has access to the records of all students past and present that have attended that University. Most of the teachers, obviously, in the local school district took classes at that university. Their transcripts, even taking ridiculously easy education classes range from unremarkable to shockingly poor. Most started out as a "real" major: Math, Chemistry, Biology - then when they begin to flunk out, switch over to education, and VOILA, degree, and $60,000 paycheck at 23!!!

AND they don't have to worry about compe ion from the students who COULD cut it and get real degrees in real departments; because the Union makes damn sure that "education certification" is required to work in the district; less "teachers" have to compete with ACTUAL scientists, mathematicians and writers...

I'm afraid it is your ideology that is informing your conclusion on this. I bring actual experience, observation and evidence, from two different states, with mine.

[TeyshaBlue]

Do the anti-science, anti-history ladies and gentlemen of the TXBOE qualify as progressives?

lol. no.

[TeyshaBlue]

Wait, what? Yes they are. We have a Board of Education and a Commissioner of Education at the state level. We have a Public Education Committee in the Texas House. And these positions aren't exactly overrun with Progressives.

Obviously local municipalities and dist ricts are heavily involved as well, but this thread is about the State of Texas falling behind other states. If you and DarrinS feel this is solely the responsibility of liberal school districts in Texas, then I'm curious as to what specific liberal policies in Texas school districts have led to Texas students being at a disadvantage to students in other states.

I'm pretty confused as to why you think it's a stupid question. I'm not surprised that Darrin has yet to respond to it either.

You make the assumption, in a rather boutonesque fashion, that education has bern static the last 40 years. We had these same aencies in place in the 70's yet we had a much, much healthier dual path for completion. Vocational Ed is a shadow of what it once was, but tha didnt happen at the behest of the various boards. No, there was a dramatic shift in how we educated children and the notion that all children could achieve equally was developed and codified by a faction of educational "progressives". These methodologies and often wild ass guesses ( o open concept) were developed by these progressive schhols of thought and then codified over time by the various boards and agencies.

[TeyshaBlue]

I know theres a thousand typos...I dont give a .

[boutons_deux]

http://www.publicschoolreview.com/st...als/stateid/TX

[boutons_deux]

we'll see if the anti-education TX Repugs will find the money

http://www.caller.com/news/2013/feb/...tion-overhaul/

Pretty stupid not to have voc students not take math, science, English

[TeyshaBlue]

Anyone up to parsing boutons last post?

[boutons_deux]

Anyone up to parsing boutons last post?

TB R I F

Even for you voc students

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I've got two children currently enrolled here (Pa); and one who graduated last year.

In addition, I had children enrolled in Texas schools (NISD) for 6 years.

I don't know what ideology you're referring to, my children are living this, and I'm witnessing it; actual evidence is these teachers are not good; and they are, frankly, over paid for the talent and effort they bring to the table.

I have even more evidence that informs my conclusion: My wife is a Chemistry professor at the local state university. As such she has access to the records of all students past and present that have attended that University. Most of the teachers, obviously, in the local school district took classes at that university. Their transcripts, even taking ridiculously easy education classes range from unremarkable to shockingly poor. Most started out as a "real" major: Math, Chemistry, Biology - then when they begin to flunk out, switch over to education, and VOILA, degree, and $60,000 paycheck at 23!!!

AND they don't have to worry about compe ion from the students who COULD cut it and get real degrees in real departments; because the Union makes damn sure that "education certification" is required to work in the district; less "teachers" have to compete with ACTUAL scientists, mathematicians and writers...

I'm afraid it is your ideology that is informing your conclusion on this. I bring actual experience, observation and evidence, from two different states, with mine.

What ideology? That empirical evidence and verified sources are the path to the truth? My ideology is a way. Yours is a conclusion.

You are one with the 'unions are coming' message. Your two unqualified anecdotes of your two kids and your wife as a chemistry teacher aside, I just gave two independent comprehensive sources that gave PA #6.

This is an anonymous internet forum. What are random people going to believe? Linked sources or story time? I especially liked the part where your wife just got to look through transcripts at whim FERPA being what it is.

[TeyshaBlue]

TB R I F

Even for you voc students

[Spurminator]

You make the assumption, in a rather boutonesque fashion, that education has bern static the last 40 years. We had these same aencies in place in the 70's yet we had a much, much healthier dual path for completion. Vocational Ed is a shadow of what it once was, but tha didnt happen at the behest of the various boards. No, there was a dramatic shift in how we educated children and the notion that all children could achieve equally was developed and codified by a faction of educational "progressives". These methodologies and often wild ass guesses ( o open concept) were developed by these progressive schhols of thought and then codified over time by the various boards and agencies.

In boutonseque fashion? I'm not the one making this a one-sided partisan issue as you appear to be.

The "progressive" shift in education was not an exclusively Texan shift, it's a societal shift. And it's not hard to imagine that the shift was more significant in liberal states. So again, why are Texas students lagging worse than other states?

[boutons_deux]

True.

Europeans and other countries have always "tracked" their students into academic and non-academic HS tracks. America has the stupid idea that everyone goes academic, has "equal opportunity" to win a Nobel, etc, afraid that a future Nobel late-bloomer might have gotten snuffed and tracked into wood shop or metal bashing.

[Spurminator]

Oh and GFY

[TeyshaBlue]

Oh and GFY

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Repug Bubba Koch Brothers

[TeyshaBlue]

In boutonseque fashion? I'm not the one making this a one-sided partisan issue as you appear to be.

The "progressive" shift in education was not an exclusively Texan shift, it's a societal shift. And it's not hard to imagine that the shift was more significant in liberal states. So again, why are Texas students lagging worse than other states?

Boutonesque in the implied timeline...as if this were a recent development laid at the feet of Perry & Co.
And, Progressive is used in a different context when discussing education. The educational progressives of the 60's and 70's share some traits with social progressives but there are enough differences that you just can't conflate the two. Indeed, the educational progressives of Texas in the 90's were largely Bush & Co.