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Can't disagree with any of that. I'd take Zeke over Stockton, as well. But I do believe Isiah is very overrated. He's often placed in the top 15-20 players of all-time, and I just don't see it.
Isiah was putting up 20/10 for five straight seasons early on in his career. After the Pistons drafted Dumars and Dumars proved his worth, Chuck Daly specifically asked Isiah to relinquish some of the offensive responsibility that he carried for so long (both Daly and Isiah have said as much on record). That's when the Pistons really started to turn the corner into becoming a cohesive and great team. Isiah probably could have gone another 5 seasons putting up 20/10 but the Pistons wouldn't have gotten to that championship level had he done so. Stockton put up better overall numbers in terms of assists (at least in part thanks to Sloan's pick and roll offense and having a finisher like Karl Malone) and efficiency. And the longevity of Stockton's career also gives him better career totals. But I don't think anyone who watched and followed the NBA in the 80s would tell you Stockton was the better player. He wasn't. Stockton was still a great player absolutely. But he wasn't a better player than Isiah. And while it's not like it was a travesty to have had Stockton on the Dream Team, it was a travesty not to have Isiah on that team in terms of having all the best pros at that time on the team. The equivalent would be like Team USA taking Rajon Rondo over Chris Paul.
And beyond talent, the one thing that made Isiah so great wasn't just his game but his heart. There have been threads on these boards about being a clutch player and even the Dirk/Wade thread about toughness. Isiah was a big game player and a great clutch player. His compe iveness, heart, and desire to win matches any player on that Dream Team squad, including Jordan. Guys like that hate losing more than they like winning.
Not a diss to Stockton as he was still a great player, a worthy HOFer. Isiah just deserved to be on that team more than him.
Can't disagree with any of that. I'd take Zeke over Stockton, as well. But I do believe Isiah is very overrated. He's often placed in the top 15-20 players of all-time, and I just don't see it.
Just further proof that most of these guys are overpaid babies who don't deserve to have us root for them tbh
LOL pretty damn good post.
I don't know where I'd rank Isiah all time. I'd have to really think hard about it. He's obviously not top 10. He may or may not sniff top 20. Probably borderline top 20 without thinking about it too much. I'd place him somewhere in the 20-25 range. Also, if some people have ranked Isiah in the 15-20 range, that may also have been before lists like those include guys like Kobe, Duncan, KG, LeBron, Dirk, among others in the current generation of players. Isiah has moved down over the last decade because of some younger players more highly regarded who now have the cache and number of years in to be thought of as all time greats. Some discredit Isiah because they call Bird and Magic old when he beat them or because he beat Jordan before Jordan got enough help. But Magic wasn't old and Jordan was still Jordan when Isiah and the Pistons were beating the Bulls. I'm not sure why you consider him overrated, but to me if anything, Isiah has been disregarded and forgotten because he's remembered more for his atrocious career post-playing days. People think of him more as the guy who ruined the Knicks and the CBA and for his beef with Magic than he is remembered as a player.
I also disagree with the notion that he wasn't great at any one thing. He had the best handles in the league during his career. And his playmaking rivaled any player at the time, including Magic. He wasn't just good at playmaking as M>S suggested. He WAS a great playmaker. And if there was a stat back then for clutchness, my guess is he would have been near the top of that as well. I think it's silly to suggest he wasn't great at anything. He is arguably the greatest little man to play the game. In a big man's game, he was dominating great players and great teams at 6'1 and probably a buck-70. Imagine if he had the size of Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson.
Isiah was very good no doubt and a HOF player, but Joe D is one of my fave players of all times! Jordan hated playing against him because of that D! He was a key reason for that 3-1 vs. Jordan! I have loved Joey D since a kid, one of my faves ever and a GOOD dude on top of that.
I know it's blasphemy, but Isiah Thomas is massively overrated.
Jerry West watched the performance and remarked privately that most people considered Isiah Thomas the Pistons’ superstar, but West pointed out that it was Dumars who was the supreme talent.
Why?
Well, West said, both Thomas and Dumars could push the envelope offensively, “but Joe’s defense sets him apart.”
http://hoopshype.com/articles/defense_lazenby.htm
Dumars is also a better GM than Zeke was tbh, sure he messed up by overpaying Gordon and Villanueva and trading Billups but management forced his hand there
Great post. These dudes tripping. Zeke was the man back in the day. I'd love to see him play in today's NBA. Dude was a warrior. This vid right here epitomizes what he meant to Detroit:
Killer instinct. Clutch jumper. Warrior. I tell you what, he'd dominate today's NBA. Nobody would be able to stop him tbh.
However, Isiah couldnt beat this dude :
The only PG to have rung since Magic says it all.
I think Malone, Stockton, Ewing, MJ, Bird and Pippen hated Zeke and that must have stung and your own Coach couldn't help matters tbh.
THIS tbh.
Here's Isiah in a nuts :
And all these years later everyone kisses Jordan's ass like he was God's gift to the game and all that have come after him are vying for 2nd place.
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