"Someone Just Leaked Obama's Rules for Assassinating American Citizens"

[Blake]

^^^ Oh look who's in my thread again

Oh look who is following me around instead of discussing the subject.

[spursncowboys]

having a presidentially determined hit list for US citizens that is publicly defended as a national security prerogative, as above in the OP, is another novelty.

IMO War is wa r. There are alot of things most people wouldn't like to hear from war (destroying a carload of people for trying to pass your convoy because the enemy uses their VBIED as a way to hit US; shooting into a house that an enemy ran into;etc)

However I find it a little odd that the President has created a Kill list.

I also do not understand what the big deal is with drone attacks. If you are against attacks in general, that makes more sense. But to not have a problem with AF jets doing the same thing as drones makes me think of someone who thinks we should tie one hand behind our back to make it more fair.

I do agree with you WH, however, in a realistic standpoint, and not a Cons utional or ethical one. I think in our political correct society, we as as country should be doing more to appease the mass majority of journalists. Although it is a thin line since more protection towards the enemy usually means less safety for our troops.

[SA210]

Oh look who is following me around instead of discussing the subject.

lol In my own thread

[Winehole23]

I could find more, but honestly I really am content resting on Operation El Dorado Canyon.

And I'm not in the mood to argue that 4+ years of the term "signature strike" means it is or isn't old news.

you're lazy, but we knew that already.

[Winehole23]

if you want to say Reagan unwrapped the tactic, fine. it didn't become commonplace until very recently.

[Winehole23]

within the last 30 years is, historically speaking, new.

[Blake]

lol In my own thread

lmao sure enough.

[SA210]

lol lil gay boy still following me doing his best Chump impression

[Blake]

you're lazy, but we knew that already.

Then you shouldn't trust the homework I did for you.

[Blake]

lol lil gay boy still following me doing his best Chump impression

That's just awful. Go back to ignoring me.

[Blake]

within the last 30 years is, historically speaking, new.

Maybe.

I'd say the practice of bombing innocent civilians has been around as long as bombs have

[FuzzyLumpkins]

if you want to say Reagan unwrapped the tactic, fine. it didn't become commonplace until very recently.

50 years ago we would have carpet bombed them. How do you think ww2 was fought?

If you think there are terrorist training cells in those areas then drones are an improvement over previous US military strategies. I am sure we killed a whole to n of kids on Dresden.

The issue for me is the targeting of US citizens without habeas corpus. As for bombing suspected terrorist training compounds so be it.

[Winehole23]

50 years ago we would have carpet bombed them. How do you think ww2 was fought?

war and the practice of war have been significantly redefined in the wake of 9/11. pretending they haven't is disingenuous.

[Winehole23]

Maybe.
'
I'd say the practice of bombing innocent civilians has been around as long as bombs have

pretending this is business as usual is intellectually and morally obtuse. the drone war isn't just the same old , its a new frontier in lawlessness and immorality, to say nothing of authoritarian government,

[Blake]

The issue for me is the targeting of US citizens without habeas corpus. As for bombing suspected terrorist training compounds so be it.

American terrorist life is worth more than Middle Eastern innocent bystander?

[Blake]

pretending this is business as usual is intellectually and morally obtuse. the drone war isn't just the same old , its a new frontier in lawlessness and immorality, to say nothing of authoritarian government,

no, i think it's the same old , just a different technique and an enemy without any real nationality.

Collateral damage has been around for a long time, even by your time standards. You're either ok with it or you're not.

To insinuate that it was ever morally justified is being disingenuous.

[LnGrrrR]

American terrorist life is worth more than Middle Eastern innocent bystander?

Fuzzy wasn't comparing the "worth" of two lives, merely noting that killing Americans without trial sets a dangerous precedent. There's always laws regarding the targeting of foreigners and whether it's legal or not. (Killing innocents unintentionally = maybe legal, killing innocents intentionally = not legal).

[Blake]

If you are not worried about giving foreigners the same right to a fair trial before killing them, I'd say yes, you are valuing American life over other human life.

Worst case scenario being that you cry that the possible, even probable, terrorist born in America deserves a fair trial but shrug "meh" when a middle eastern bystander is in the wrong place at wrong time.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

American terrorist life is worth more than Middle Eastern innocent bystander?

I don't look at it like that. I look at it like they are training grounds for enemy soldiers for attacks on the United States and our allies. It's a guerrilla war but war just the same.

High value target has all manner of meanings.

I think they should have public trials held in absentia. Given them the opportunity to come. It's not as if in this day and age the message cannot get out and do it in such a manner that it is a legitimate attempt. If not then try them for treason and kill them. If they are concerned about the effect public scrutiny will have then they should not be doing said activity. They are beholden to us, the citizens, and it seems they are only beholden to themselves.

That being said if he is in a terrorist training facility that we have targeted then that is is his own damn fault.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

pretending this is business as usual is intellectually and morally obtuse. the drone war isn't just the same old , its a new frontier in lawlessness and immorality, to say nothing of authoritarian government,

then you are against all wars so oh well. its how war is fought now. when you say it has been redefined, this is the redefinition. it is not 'business as usual' as we are not throwing napalm cluster bombs at entire villages or much less using a squadron of B-17's to bomb an entire city. While it may be 'ambiguous' from a 'relativist' standpoint it's a vast improvement.

[Blake]

I don't look at it like that. I look at it like they are training grounds for enemy soldiers for attacks on the United States and our allies. It's a guerrilla war but war just the same.

High value target has all manner of meanings.

I think they should have public trials held in absentia. Given them the opportunity to come. It's not as if in this day and age the message cannot get out and do it in such a manner that it is a legitimate attempt. If not then try them for treason and kill them. If they are concerned about the effect public scrutiny will have then they should not be doing said activity. They are beholden to us, the citizens, and it seems they are only beholden to themselves.

That being said if he is in a terrorist training facility that we have targeted then that is is his own damn fault.

How do you get the message out without giving away that you know where the terrorists are hiding?

I think it's rather common knowledge now that if you are in the wrong place wrong time you're ed?

[LnGrrrR]

If you are not worried about giving foreigners the same right to a fair trial before killing them, I'd say yes, you are valuing American life over other human life.

Worst case scenario being that you cry that the possible, even probable, terrorist born in America deserves a fair trial but shrug "meh" when a middle eastern bystander is in the wrong place at wrong time.

In many cases, the US doesn't have the ability to grant the right to a fair trial to foreign citizens. And it's not possible to capture every combatant. BUt yes, I do value American life over other human life, by a slight amount. I tend to donate to American charities and support American businesses.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

How do you get the message out without giving away that you know where the terrorists are hiding?

I think it's rather common knowledge now that if you are in the wrong place wrong time you're ed?

Press release to AJ and the rest of the major networks. Hold a civilian trial in federal court after a fair amount of time. If he is found guilty then so be it. Time for the missile.

I do know we are blowing up so much of their up they are telling people to not to come to Yemen and Pakistan.

[Blake]

In many cases, the US doesn't have the ability to grant the right to a fair trial to foreign citizens. And it's not possible to capture every combatant. BUt yes, I do value American life over other human life, by a slight amount. I tend to donate to American charities and support American businesses.

In this case i don't.

A terrorist is a terrorist, imo. Either give them all a fair trial or them all.

[Wild Cobra]

pretending this is business as usual is intellectually and morally obtuse. the drone war isn't just the same old , its a new frontier in lawlessness and immorality, to say nothing of authoritarian government,

Blake, WH is correct. For one, times and technology are different. I like drones for limited use, but definitely not to the degree they have been used since early 2009. I think anyone who defend the current practice is rather lacking in the moral character.