Obama/Biden flip floppin on Iran now.........intresting

[sjacquemotte]

There's an argument to me made that the ayatollahs and mullahs came to power because we installed and supported the Shah for so long.

Yeah and it was pretty pathetic that they cia had no idea what was going on when it happened

[Wild Cobra]

There's an argument to me made that the ayatollahs and mullahs came to power because we installed and supported the Shah for so long.

I would disagree for the simple fact that there is a long history of one group against another over there. Stability means supporting the lesser of the evils. We will likely never see democracy over there in our lifetimes, and Iraq will be a hard test.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah and it was pretty pathetic that they cia had no idea what was going on when it happened

When what happened? You'll have to be a bit more specific -- there is so much about which they have been clueless.

[ElNono]

Democrats have a history into taking us and continuing sticky wars. Look at Korea and Viet Nam. Most wars started by a republican were quickly dealt with. These terrorists put different challenges in to win. Just the same, Bush (43) did get us out of Iraq, and now... is it true? Is B. Hoperah O. wanting to take us back in?

You forget. Blacks have special rights. Anytime you say anything not nice, it is a racist comment.

[ChumpDumper]

I would disagree for the simple fact that there is a long history of one group against another over there. Stability means supporting the lesser of the evils. We will likely never see democracy over there in our lifetimes, and Iraq will be a hard test.

Uh, Iran had been electing parliament since 1906. Mossadegh was appointed by that parliament.

[sjacquemotte]

When what happened? You'll have to be a bit more specific -- there is so much about which they have been clueless.

Overthrowing the Shah

[BobaFett1]

Th'Pusher twist the truth

[Jacob1983]

Where is Ron Paul when you need him?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Promoting democracy imo isn't bull . In Iran's case, keeping ussr from expanding was priority number one. Regardless of what the Shah did, the ayatollahs and mullahs have been far worse. For America, and especially the world. Especially if you factor in the precedent they set as the beg of radical Islam in the middle east

ChumpDumper already said it but I think the Shah oppressive regime is what led to the ayatollahs and mullahs.

I'm not saying promoting Democracy is bull , I'm saying the claim our government makes that we promote Democracy is bull when we take out Democratically elected officials.

[sjacquemotte]

ChumpDumper already said it but I think the Shah oppressive regime is what led to the ayatollahs and mullahs.I'm not saying promoting Democracy is bull , I'm saying the claim our government makes that we promote Democracy is bull when we take out Democratically elected officials.

Looking at it from there eyes, thou. Ike and America as a whole hasn't really dealt with the new world of that time. I imagined they took allot of advice from Churchill and Brittian, who had been in a war with Russia via "great game 1 & 2". I think that it's why at times our policies looks allot like a colonial power, rather than what we developed into. Mossade was trying to nationalize the oil fields with a coalition of socialists and radical Islamists. True it was controlled by bp. But in the beginning of the cold war, with his domino theory it would make sense that he would rather have a puppet than a communist backed politician.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Looking at it from there eyes, thou. Ike and America as a whole hasn't really dealt with the new world of that time. I imagined they room allot of advice from Churchill and British, who had been in a sat with Russia via "great game 1 & 2". I think that its why at times our policies looks allot like a colonial power, rather than what we developed into. Mossade was trying to nationalize the oil fields with a coalition of socialists and radical Islamists. True it was controlled by bp. But in the beginning of the cold war, with his domino theory it would make sense that he would rather have a puppet than a communist backed politician.

I can't disagree with any of that and it might have made sense for America at the time given the Soviet Union, but when we start compromising a nation's sovereignty and ability to do what it wants with its own oil fields, then we're no better than the Soviet Untion for splitting Germany in half, building the Berlin Wall, and we create enemies all over the world in doing so. From America's eyes at the time you're right that they were spreading Democracy by preventing USSR influence, but the cold war made them lose site of the fact they were compromising Iran's free will to chose its own allies and trade partners, or basically what Democracy is. Nationalizing the oil fields in Iran and trading with the Soviets might have been for the greater good of the people. IMO, we should focus on protecting the sovereignty of countries when other countries threaten it, like what we did in the original Persian Gulf War or Korean War. Then we really do create allies like South Korea and Kuwait.

You're 100% right that at the time we didn't know anything and we had no idea what kind of backlash that could come of it, but the discussion now is what we can learn from it as we obviously can't go back in time and change it. The puppet governments we put in place backfire and don't last.