Army suspends tuition assistance program

[LnGrrrR]

Really hoping they don't suspend it for the Air Force.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2013/0...istance-030813

This is something that hits the rank and file of enlisted folks pretty strongly. Many airmen I know are working on their degrees while in the military, and without the extra $4500 many of them will choose not to go. There's only so many scholarships out there, after all. And with the Air Force nearly mandating personal education as a means of separating yourself from the pack, this would be a big blow for motivated troops.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Words can't describe how unfair this is to people enlisted in the army. Taking tuition assistance away from people who joined the army largely because it was their means of financing college is completely dishonest bull . They know full and well that recruiting people without being able to offer tuition assistance would be mission impossible.

Just another example of our corrupt government ensuring economic woes only hit those at the middle and at the bottom. The first program that's cut always seems to be a program related to enabling middle class and lower middle class americans to get an education.

[leemajors]

Words can't describe how unfair this is to people enlisted in the army. Taking tuition assistance away from people who joined the army largely because it was their means of financing college is completely dishonest bull . They know full and well that recruiting people without being able to offer tuition assistance would be mission impossible.

Just another example of our corrupt government ensuring economic woes only hit those at the middle and at the bottom. The first program that's cut always seems to be a program related to enabling middle class and lower middle class americans to get an education.

[LnGrrrR]

Words can't describe how unfair this is to people enlisted in the army. Taking tuition assistance away from people who joined the army largely because it was their means of financing college is completely dishonest bull . They know full and well that recruiting people without being able to offer tuition assistance would be mission impossible.

Just another example of our corrupt government ensuring economic woes only hit those at the middle and at the bottom. The first program that's cut always seems to be a program related to enabling middle class and lower middle class americans to get an education.

To be clear, they still have the GI Bill, which grants them a certain amount of cash per year. But that's a limited basis, and most people save that for A) add'l education when they get out of the military, B) topping up (ie. if you're going to a school where the credit hours are more than $250 per hr, you can use the GI Bill to pay the rest), or C) donating it to your spouse or children.

I plan on donating mine to my children... assuming they keep tuition assistance going. If not, not sure what I'll do. And obviously like you said DoK, this affects enlisted a ton more than officers, since officers already have a bachelor's degree.

[MannyIsGod]

So I think its unfair to kill the benefit for those who enlisted thinking they'd have it available but I generally think the military is a bloated en y of the government that needs cuts so I think they should share in the belt tightening if not lead it.

And here in lies the crux of what we should all start getting used to going forward. If people really want to pay down the debt then they'd better get used to a whole of a lot of "unfair" being spread around.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't disagree with the military being bloated but the US has a long tradition of ting on their enlisted men. VA and enlisted benefits have been deteriorating but weapons programs like the 40 F-35s and the B-2 and the Osprey and tanks we don't need and cruisers we don't need? They get $100s of billions.

They spent $200b on 40 ing planes when the f-15 which was developed in the 70s is still better than most anything.

[silverblk mystix]

I'd argue that if one enlisted for the sole purpose of furthering their education (or at least one of the reasons for joining) that a valid reason for leaving the military would be for breach of contract.

[boutons_deux]

"one enlisted for the purpose of ... "

so now we're going to have "enlistment purpose" police?

what about the poor, unemployed, no-future people who don't GA patriotic F about USA, but enlist to get room, board, and a salary? or teenagers with masculinity confusion and enlist in the Marines to Be A Man?

[LnGrrrR]

I'd argue that if one enlisted for the sole purpose of furthering their education (or at least one of the reasons for joining) that a valid reason for leaving the military would be for breach of contract.

Ha! Unfortunately, once you sign up, you sign up. There's nothing in the contract that says you'll get any benefits (excepting ones written into the contract, like signing bonuses). Even when we had the government shutdown, we knew we were going to have to go to work, paid or unpaid.

[silverblk mystix]

Ha! Unfortunately, once you sign up, you sign up. There's nothing in the contract that says you'll get any benefits (excepting ones written into the contract, like signing bonuses). Even when we had the government shutdown, we knew we were going to have to go to work, paid or unpaid.

Depends on which attorney took the case.

Breach of contract is breach of contract.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

So I think its unfair to kill the benefit for those who enlisted thinking they'd have it available but I generally think the military is a bloated en y of the government that needs cuts so I think they should share in the belt tightening if not lead it.

And here in lies the crux of what we should all start getting used to going forward. If people really want to pay down the debt then they'd better get used to a whole of a lot of "unfair" being spread around.

Manny it wouldn't be unfair if officers in the military were taking a hit too. I understand paying down the debt means everyone is gonna have to suffer, but so far all the ideas from both sides involve the middle class getting the brunt of the suffering while wealth continues to disproportionally concentrate at the top. I know you agree with this, but for this situation there are countless ways to cut defense spending before we have to start ting on enlisted men like this. For one, there's no reason we need as many people in the military as we have.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

what about the poor, unemployed, no-future people who don't GA patriotic F about USA, but enlist to get room, board, and a salary?

What about 'em? It's not their fault the country they live in makes it so their only real option after high school is the military. It's by design the government makes it so the only way they'll have any future once they turn 18 is if they serve as zionist mercenaries for a few years.

[LnGrrrR]

Manny it wouldn't be unfair if officers in the military were taking a hit too. I understand paying down the debt means everyone is gonna have to suffer, but so far all the ideas from both sides involve the middle class getting the brunt of the suffering while wealth continues to disproportionally concentrate at the top. I know you agree with this, but for this situation there are countless ways to cut defense spending before we have to start ting on enlisted men like this. For one, there's no reason we need as many people in the military as we have.

This nominally affects officers too (as tuition assistance is cut for all), but realistically it affects enlisted more overall (since officers have degrees already and make much more than enlisted.)

And hey, I guess one way to kick people out/get less people in is by reducing benefits...

[Drachen]

Manny it wouldn't be unfair if officers in the military were taking a hit too. I understand paying down the debt means everyone is gonna have to suffer, but so far all the ideas from both sides involve the middle class getting the brunt of the suffering while wealth continues to disproportionally concentrate at the top. I know you agree with this, but for this situation there are countless ways to cut defense spending before we have to start ting on enlisted men like this. For one, there's no reason we need as many people in the military as we have.

That might kinda be the point with a move like this.

[spursncowboys]

Really hoping they don't suspend it for the Air Force.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2013/0...istance-030813

This is something that hits the rank and file of enlisted folks pretty strongly. Many airmen I know are working on their degrees while in the military, and without the extra $4500 many of them will choose not to go. There's only so many scholarships out there, after all. And with the Air Force nearly mandating personal education as a means of separating yourself from the pack, this would be a big blow for motivated troops.

AF budget is pretty huge, compared to Army, so I don't think so. Plus the Army has all their Generals with their bloated entourage.

[spursncowboys]

Words can't describe how unfair this is to people enlisted in the army. Taking tuition assistance away from people who joined the army largely because it was their means of financing college is completely dishonest bull . They know full and well that recruiting people without being able to offer tuition assistance would be mission impossible.

Just another example of our corrupt government ensuring economic woes only hit those at the middle and at the bottom. The first program that's cut always seems to be a program related to enabling middle class and lower middle class americans to get an education.

I don't think I've ever agreed with you before...

[spursncowboys]

Had they had followed Robert Gate's ideas on going after the real waste of the military-the Pentagon- this wouldn't be so severe.

[spursncowboys]

To be clear, they still have the GI Bill, which grants them a certain amount of cash per year. But that's a limited basis, and most people save that for A) add'l education when they get out of the military, B) topping up (ie. if you're going to a school where the credit hours are more than $250 per hr, you can use the GI Bill to pay the rest), or C) donating it to your spouse or children.

I plan on donating mine to my children... assuming they keep tuition assistance going. If not, not sure what I'll do. And obviously like you said DoK, this affects enlisted a ton more than officers, since officers already have a bachelor's degree.

Yeah plus most states have programs set up like the yellow ribbon. Maybe not most.

[spursncowboys]

Manny it wouldn't be unfair if officers in the military were taking a hit too. I understand paying down the debt means everyone is gonna have to suffer, but so far all the ideas from both sides involve the middle class getting the brunt of the suffering while wealth continues to disproportionally concentrate at the top. I know you agree with this, but for this situation there are countless ways to cut defense spending before we have to start ting on enlisted men like this. For one, there's no reason we need as many people in the military as we have.

32 Brigades total is not alot at all! Although I'm in the Army, I am getting out so I don't really have a benefit to my view but i don't think as a nation we should ever go lower than 35. That would keep us able to fight a true large scale war, or a small war with an ability to cycle units.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't disagree with the military being bloated but the US has a long tradition of ting on their enlisted men. VA and enlisted benefits have been deteriorating but weapons programs like the 40 F-35s and the B-2 and the Osprey and tanks we don't need and cruisers we don't need? They get $100s of billions.

They spent $200b on 40 ing planes when the f-15 which was developed in the 70s is still better than most anything.

Manny it wouldn't be unfair if officers in the military were taking a hit too. I understand paying down the debt means everyone is gonna have to suffer, but so far all the ideas from both sides involve the middle class getting the brunt of the suffering while wealth continues to disproportionally concentrate at the top. I know you agree with this, but for this situation there are countless ways to cut defense spending before we have to start ting on enlisted men like this. For one, there's no reason we need as many people in the military as we have.

Agree with both of these posts (as predicted by DOK haha).

[MannyIsGod]

That might kinda be the point with a move like this.

No ing way. Its just that they can on enlisted personnel without much of a backlash from anyone. The enlisted of our military don't have the type of lobbyists the military industrial complex has.

[Drachen]

No ing way. Its just that they can on enlisted personnel without much of a backlash from anyone. The enlisted of our military don't have the type of lobbyists the military industrial complex has.

Yes, and they know it will lose them recruits.

[MannyIsGod]

Yes, and they know it will lose them recruits.

I'm not sure it will lose them recruits. Why are you so certain?

[DarrinS]

FYI...This is seperate from GI Bill.

[MannyIsGod]

Holy Darrin thanks for repeating what was stated up top. Read mother er.