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Yes. He can't drive as well, he turns the ball over too much and is seeming to have more trouble providing the spark off the bench. I think he could hack it one more year but after that he'd probably be too ty to contribute at any significant level.
He's obviously declining (understatement) but I don't think he realizes it. Is he now more of a liability than an asset (especially on defense)?
I'd like to get Nono's take on this. Let's discuss...
Yes. He can't drive as well, he turns the ball over too much and is seeming to have more trouble providing the spark off the bench. I think he could hack it one more year but after that he'd probably be too ty to contribute at any significant level.
Jag with the bads
lol at "becoming"
cant run pick and rolls effectively anymore
throws bad skip passes that get read all the time or he loses his dribble and throws a bad pass
his defense consists of gambling at everything now
the less the ball is in his hands the better
needs to be used off the ball and an occasional pick and roll that results in a drive to the basket
or him finding open shooters or roll man on non skip passes
Not even close to a liability. Blair on the defensive end is a liability. Neal's chucking tendencies have been a liability. Manu's been an asset overall. The problem here is that Pop's asking him to do too much. He's not fast enough anymore to keep up with point guards on the one end and because you never know what his ballhandling and passing will be like against faster teams it's not a good idea to have him leading the bench unit without Tiago out there with him to help him turn the corner. *refrains from complaining about the 4 big rotation*
Defensively he may be better guarding the 3 (and maybe letting Leonard guard the 2 unless we're playing the Heat or something), but again that's on Pop as well as the match-ups. Maybe it's time Pop started allowing guys like Diaw to do more playmaking for that second unit. Maybe CoJo should get more burn. Maybe Tiago should go back to coming off the bench since for some reason Pop's been sitting him out entire quarters rather than letting him play with the second unit. I just don't know what the solution is at this stage although I do think something should be done.
People forget that he's still trying to play his way back into form. He didn't get much overlap with Tony to ease back in before TP went down with the ankle.
Manu is a rhythm player who isn't in rhythm right now.
I disagree with Mr. Ginobili being a liability. Just the opposite, I think he's our X factor. His brilliance still shows, especially with him being the primary rim finisher with Mr. Parker down. No matter what, if I'm working and have the game on, Mr. Ginobili is 'MUST SEE" when he is on the floor. Good gosh, what an unorthodox human being. My favorite highlight is when he rejected a Kevin Durant slam at the rim, I think it was last year? Yes, he shows some rust, but he is playing himself back to shape.
We're so screwed it's not even funny if the plan at this stage is for Kawhi to become the #2 during this year's playoffs. Unless "championship" isn't the ceiling we're talking about. Kawhi's a fantastic young player and I love what he's bringing to our team but he's not there yet.
But I do agree with the sentiment of using Kawhi and the others more. Guys like Kawhi and Splitter are needed more to make up the difference between prime TD and Manu and the current versions we're seeing now. Danny Green's streakiness makes him more X factor material because then we're not depending on him shooting well consistently in order to win.
according to the stats he's been the biggest game changer in the league when he played.. It is true however that he's declining, but he's still an asset imho..
Haha this thread is hilarious. The guy with the highest individual winning percentage is a liability...highly doubt it. I also doubt kawhi can be a manu caliber type player this early in his career. Spurs go nowhere without Manu, as with TP. Everyone always doubts manu, remember his contract year when tony was out? I know he's been a bit inconsistent lately but he will get into the flow of it. He had 15 assists the other night, were going to really need his passing and scoring when TP is out and especially for the playoffs.
He's not a liability, but some of his touches should go to Kawhi and Splitter..
Ginobili's passing offers more opportunity for teammates, to be fair..he's a great spot-up shooter though, he can play off the ball, it wouldn't hurt having him defer a little more..
Many Spurs' fans continue to underestimate Leonard's progression and ability, tbh..he's versatile, his mid-range game is nice, he can post up, he can play off the ball..
oh, how I long for the days of old when it were this simple.
Yes Leonard's progression has been incredible. But #2 on a championship team? #3 at best. If the Spurs were to somehow beat the odds and meet Miami in the Finals, it'd be because one of Duncan or Manu was able to turn back the clock and put together a run for the ages.
I've enjoyed watching Kawhi grow this year and I think he has what it takes to be something special. In fact, I agree that Leonard should be taking some touches from Manu as it stands right now. But people are out of their minds if they think he's at a stage where he can replace prime or even slightly past prime Manu or TD's production in the post-season this year. That's what it would take for the Spurs to win it all assuming Tony came back without missing a beat.
Kawhi can fill in the gaps for the 3rd person in a worst case scenario and he'd be fine even as a #4 or #5, but he's not going to produce at prime Ginobili level with a good defense keying in on him. Especially not against the Heat.
Last edited by TheSkeptic; 03-09-2013 at 03:37 PM.
I've already stated that the Spurs need Duncan to play at near prime level against Miami for any legit shot at a le..
Arguing that Kawhi can't replace prime or near prime Ginobili is a moot point, as current Manu can't replicate prime Ginobili either, tbh..when Ginobil is peaking, he's still better than Kawhi, since he's a much better passer and shooter in addition to his intangibles..however, at this point, Leonard is a more consistent player IMO..
Realistically, the Spurs will require an all-around team effort to win in the playoffs, which may force Pop to realize that Ginobili's role needs to be reduced when he's slumping..
Basically this. Certain things are being asked of him right now because of Tony's injury, but in general he cant continue to force the issue when things aren't clicking. The Spurs will be better served to have Kawhi or Tiago working their offensive games, then to have Manu forcing his game that isn't working.
I don't think Leonard is a #2 guy on a le team, but I don't see any reason that he can't be a #3, tbh..he's probably the 6th-8th best player at the best position in the NBA..
He need another month to find his rhythm?
Not a liability. Overall, he still gives you more than what he takes away.
I have no problem with this. I thought last night he went hero mode because nobody else was doing , and because sometimes it does work for the Spurs. See: Chicago game two days earlier.
Yeah, I don't think Leonard will ever be a #2 type guy for a contender, but he can go through stretches where his jumper is falling and that makes it very easy for him to get in the lane. He sees driving lanes well and is good with his spacing. He can be an adequate offensive threat for stretches during the postseason. That to me sounds better than Manu throwing up out-of-rhythm 3's and passing the ball into traffic.
I would also add that Manu's biggest asset to the team these days is setting up players for baskets more than volume scoring like in his prime. Which for a team like the Spurs who no longer has a franchise caliber player, it's actually fine.
Oh, and yeah, he had a bad game last night. Happens.
Manu became a liability 2-3 years ago, imho.
Plays decent ball for 10-15mil/year. Gets injured. Takes 3-6 weeks to get back in to basketball shape. Plays decent ball. Get's injured. Yada yada, etc etc. Broken record.
Wish we could have made a trade for Jamaal Crawford years ago, tbh.
I agree, which is why he should still be a top option when he's in a rhythm..
He's always had stretches where he took bad shots and made poor decisions, but it was always negated by his superstar-level moments..those moments are now few and far between, tbh..
When it's evident that he isn't in a rhythm and he's playing poorly, the Spurs can no longer stubbornly rely on him to run the offense every single play, they need to utilize the other options that were not available in years prior, tbh..
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