Spurs: Did Refs try to F Spurs at home vs Thunderefs?

[ambchang]

With your rationale, someone who shoots 1 FTA is only having three trips to the line less than Westbrook, and that is insignificant? Given the league leader in the game, Harden, shoots about 10.1 FTA a game, 2.1 less FTA is a 20% drop, that is quite a significant drop.

Westbrook is shooting 0.371 FTA/FGA, and Parker is shooting 0.318. That's the difference between Tony Parker and Jamal Crawford. That said, Westbrook isn't even in the top 40 in terms of FTA/FGA, the top spot belongs to, not surprisingly, Dwight Howard.

[OKC]

With your rationale, someone who shoots 1 FTA is only having three trips to the line less than Westbrook, and that is insignificant? Given the league leader in the game, Harden, shoots about 10.1 FTA a game, 2.1 less FTA is a 20% drop, that is quite a significant drop.

Westbrook is shooting 0.371 FTA/FGA, and Parker is shooting 0.318. That's the difference between Tony Parker and Jamal Crawford. That said, Westbrook isn't even in the top 40 in terms of FTA/FGA, the top spot belongs to, not surprisingly, Dwight Howard.

3 trips to the line less than another player who is reasonably comparable to you in terms of offensive capabilities would be significant, yes. There would be no point in finding a player who averaged 1 FTA per game and comparing him to Westbrook. THat's just re ed. What we're doing here is comparing 2 comparable offensive point guards and coming to the conclusion that one is granted an additional trip to the line each game. I contend that with Westbrook's style of play and higher shot volume, it makes absolute perfect sense. I do not know how one can really argue this, I'm sorry.

Ok, let's compare Westbrook to Harden. Can't play the refs love OKC card on Harden anymore, can we? So does Stern love the Rockets too? Harden is shooting 3 more FTA per game than Westbrook. 1.5 trips a game more to the line. One might say, wow that's 30% more!! Well, yeah, it is, but you often times have to put things into context when it comes to numbers. We're talking about small numbers here, with 10 being the league leader, so naturally any small deviations in the actual numbers is going to be exaggerated in percentage form. So Harden, on average, makes 1 trip, 2 trip, average it out to a trip and a half a game more to the line than Westbrook. I have no problem with that. Why? Because James Harden is the most savvy SG in the NBA. His style of driving and what he does in the paint lends itself to being fouled more than Westbrook's style does.

[OKC]

.37 FTA/FGA for Westbrook and .32 for Parker - WOW. Alert the media on that one. Again, shot attempts where one is fouled is not statistically a shot attempt. If you wanna adjust the numbers to reflect more of what is actually happening - Westbrook is actually attempting more than 18.8 shots at the rim per game, you'll find that the FTA/FGA for Westbrook and Parker are damn near identical.

[OKC]

And to be fair, KD is a different story and I'll probably side with you to a degree on some of the calls he gets and so on, but I'll support Westbrook's FTA's all day and all night because statistically his FTAs make perfect sense in comparison with the league, givn the type of player he is.

[ambchang]

I can't really comment on Harden, haven't seen him in a game this year.

And you continue to dismiss the fact that the difference between Westbrook and Parker is insignificant, I am saying it's not. In terms of FTA, Westbrook > Parker the same amount as Parker > George Hill. That is a pretty significant difference. In terms of FTA/FGA, it's in the same realm as Parker to Crawford, again, quite a significant difference.

And using shots at rim in and of itself is questionable, other shots such as shots from 3 to 5 feet are important as well. Accordingly to hoopdata, Westbrook is attempting 6.6 shots at the rim per game, and 1.4 from 3 to 9 feet, while Parker is at 5.8 and 2.4. it actually skews the number even further in Westbrook's favour.

Westbrook's FTA/FGA at the rim = 1.06, while Parker is sitting at 0.845. If you extend that to include the shots from 3 to 9 feet as well, the numbers are 0.875 and 0.598.

And yes, there is a huge conspiracy that Stern would love to prop up the Rockets as it is huge for the Chinese market. I don't buy it, and neither do I buy the theory that Stern is propping up OKC, but they do get friendly whistles.

[OKC]

I get your point, but you always have to look beyond stats. Parker's a smart player. Much smarter than Westbrook. Parker is fantastic. You can't tell me that Parker doesn't get more clean looks at the rim. You can't also tell me he's not shooting a LOT more floaters in that 3-5 foot range. Not saying Parker is afraid of contact,but he's MUCH more savvy in the paint than Westbrook. More patient, baits defenders more...Parker's ability to get to the rim cleanly is remarkable. Almost like JJ Barea..guy is 5'8 and he's shooting uncontested layups. This plays into FTAs honestly. So Parker gets a trip to the line more than George Hill..Ok...? What's your point. Makes sense to me. Hill's attempting 4 fewer shots a game and is chucking up 3 more 3 pointers a game than Parker. Of course Parker is gonna make an extra trip to the line. I get that the 2 FT difference between Parker and Hill makes more sense to you in terms of stats, but again I think you have to consider the very noticeable difference in how Parker attacks the paint with how Westbrook does.

[OKC]

Yeah we get friendly whistles. I'm pointing to KD on that mainly. I think Westbrook is a damn animal in the paint and the dude is legitametly fouled a lot. I see no favoritism with Westbrook, I really don't. I'll agree that KD is getting some gifts. Not saying Westbrook gets NONE, but he's earning his as much as a guy can I think. And to the people who that Perkins gets away with everything..come on. Perkins gets called for a ton of moving screens. I wish there was a stat on that. I guarantee he'd be way up there.

[ambchang]

My point is, the difference between Westbrook and Parker is the same as that of Parker and Hill. Parker's game is much closer to Westbrook as Hill's game is close to Parker, and yet the FT differences are the same.

Also, a savvy player will bait a defender into more fouls, gives them chances for and-1s, gets the defender in foul trouble (limiting minutes), and get easier shots (can't get easier than FT line, for most players).

[OKC]

My point is, the difference between Westbrook and Parker is the same as that of Parker and Hill. Parker's game is much closer to Westbrook as Hill's game is close to Parker, and yet the FT differences are the same.

Also, a savvy player will bait a defender into more fouls, gives them chances for and-1s, gets the defender in foul trouble (limiting minutes), and get easier shots (can't get easier than FT line, for most players).

We're talking 1 whistle a game more. I don't know how else to put it. You can't give a guy a half a whistle or a quarter of a whistle. When you're talking numbers as low as 3, 4, 5, and 7, one whistle a game is significant in terms of a percentage, but in the end it's 1 whistle a game.

[Thread]

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Just checkin' assholes:::are you going to handle this tonite?

Por favor?

[OKC]

Just checkin' assholes:::are you going to handle this tonite?

Por favor?

Are we gonna beat Utah? if I know.

[ambchang]

We're talking 1 whistle a game more. I don't know how else to put it. You can't give a guy a half a whistle or a quarter of a whistle. When you're talking numbers as low as 3, 4, 5, and 7, one whistle a game is significant in terms of a percentage, but in the end it's 1 whistle a game.

It could be zero.

[OKC]

It could be zero.

But it's not, because they're not the same player.

[Thread]

Are we gonna beat Utah?

Of course. Give it to me straight.

[ambchang]

But it's not, because they're not the same player.

Yes, and the argument is the difference comes with the name of the player, and not the exact playing style. Given the similarity in productivity, the two players should have similar number of FTAs, and yet that is not the case.

Arguments could be made for either player getting more FTA (aggressive vs. skillful styles), so the playing style, at the end of the day, should be a wash.

[OKC]

Yes, and the argument is the difference comes with the name of the player, and not the exact playing style. Given the similarity in productivity, the two players should have similar number of FTAs, and yet that is not the case.

Arguments could be made for either player getting more FTA (aggressive vs. skillful styles), so the playing style, at the end of the day, should be a wash.

It's still pretty darn close between the two...the FTA per FGA. Nothing to really write home about. On a side note, but still related, if a player attempts to dunk the ball - more times than not he'll get the benefit of the whistle on that dunk attempt. Any player. I think that's one aspect of Westbrook's game that might account for a little bit of an increase in foul calls.

[ambchang]

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree about whether 2 FTA a game is significant or not. I feel it is, and you don't.

Like I said earlier, both Westbrook and Parker have arguments wrt whether they should get more FTA. I don't think Parker is under represented at the FT line, I just think Westbrook is slightly over represented if Parker was used as the standard.

[look_at_g_shred]

Durant gets at least 7 calls a game. You can tell he's used to it already because before the ref blows the whistle, he's already looking at them.