Lakers: LOL Kobe thinks he's MJ

[LkrFan]

Yep.

mid quting himself. How cute.

[spurraider21]

Herein lies the problem with the MJ-Kobe thats blown out of proportion.

Simply said, being the best SHOOTING GUARD since Jordan doesn't make him the best PLAYER since Jordan. Laker fans seem to equivocate the 2.
Another thing is, if we call Kobe the closest thing to Jordan, that brings up all sorts of other stupid equivocations. I mean, Dwight is the closest thing now to what Shaq was, but I'm not going to say Dwight is anywhere near Shaq's league. Granted, the Jordan-Kobe disparity isn't nearly as severe as the Shaq-Dwight one, but its just a principle I'm pointing out.

Also, being the most SIMILAR in playstyle to Jordan doesn't mean he's the best player besides Jordan. Again, I would use the Shaq-Dwight comparison just to elaborate on that point. Kobe is supremely talented, and as mid said, he's probably the most fundamentally sound shooting guard ever on the offensive end of the court. Heck, Kobe admittedly patterned his game after MJ. But Jordan dominated a decade like no other. He never played second banana to anybody. Kobe got to play alongside Shaq, who was pretty much the best player in the league throughout their 3peat. MJ built his team, and it was his team from the onset. Kobe has 2 rings as the head honcho (though Gasol > Kobe in their last Finals tbh. Gasol deserved finals MVP, but still, kobe was the leader). That's hardly "dominating your era." In his prime, Jordan essentially won championships as long as he wasn't playing baseball

[whitemamba]

Herein lies the problem with the MJ-Kobe thats blown out of proportion.

Simply said, being the best SHOOTING GUARD since Jordan doesn't make him the best PLAYER since Jordan. Laker fans seem to equivocate the 2.
Another thing is, if we call Kobe the closest thing to Jordan, that brings up all sorts of other stupid equivocations. I mean, Dwight is the closest thing now to what Shaq was, but I'm not going to say Dwight is anywhere near Shaq's league. Granted, the Jordan-Kobe disparity isn't nearly as severe as the Shaq-Dwight one, but its just a principle I'm pointing out.

Also, being the most SIMILAR in playstyle to Jordan doesn't mean he's the best player besides Jordan. Again, I would use the Shaq-Dwight comparison just to elaborate on that point. Kobe is supremely talented, and as mid said, he's probably the most fundamentally sound shooting guard ever on the offensive end of the court. Heck, Kobe admittedly patterned his game after MJ. But Jordan dominated a decade like no other. He never played second banana to anybody. Kobe got to play alongside Shaq, who was pretty much the best player in the league throughout their 3peat. MJ built his team, and it was his team from the onset. Kobe has 2 rings as the head honcho (though Gasol > Kobe in their last Finals tbh. Gasol deserved finals MVP, but still, kobe was the leader). That's hardly "dominating your era." In his prime, Jordan essentially won championships as long as he wasn't playing baseball

2009 Finals
Kobe 32.4 PPG
Pau Gasol 18PPG
2010 Finals
Kobe 29PPG
Pau 19PPG

[chapnis]

2009 Finals
Kobe 32.4 PPG
Pau Gasol 18PPG
2010 Finals
Kobe 29PPG
Pau 19PPG

Kobe fans are incapable of considering anything else but PPG.

But of course.

[spurraider21]

2009 Finals
Kobe 32.4 PPG
Pau Gasol 18PPG
2010 Finals
Kobe 29PPG
Pau 19PPG

I gave you 2009 finals. I specifically said "in their last Finals", where you obviously failed to mention Kobe's horrific 40.5% shooting from the field on 23 attempts per game. Not to mention his infamous 6-24 chokejob in game 7 where he got bailed out by Pau's NINE offensive rebounds. Pau also averaging 11.6 rebounds per game and 2.6 blocks per game, getting his revenge on KG who owned his soul in the 08 finals

[Thebesteva]

I gave you 2009 finals. I specifically said "in their last Finals", where you obviously failed to mention Kobe's horrific 40.5% shooting from the field on 23 attempts per game. Not to mention his infamous 6-24 chokejob in game 7 where he got bailed out by Pau's NINE offensive rebounds. Pau also averaging 11.6 rebounds per game and 2.6 blocks per game, getting his revenge on KG who owned his soul in the 08 finals

Man that game 7 was really bad. I remember thinking if Kobe has a historic game today or just a solid performance then he will be remembered for that game as his "Jordan over Russell" moment. He really choked bad. If you say these things to Kobe-Ites they'll sodomize themselves and write a 400 page paper debating why it's not Kobe's fault.

[Thread]

Kobe is now the tired old bag himself!!!!!!

Get your own , Cagney. That's my .

[Thread]

Man that game 7 was really bad.

That's how it got to:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old bag Duncan: 4

The 2 4th quarter suicide drives into the front of the rim and the shovel to Artest got us to 16.

You got yer 4, sport. Yer all right.

[Thebesteva]

That's how it got to:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old bag Duncan: 4

The 2 4th quarter suicide drives into the front of the rim and the shovel to Artest got us to 16.

You got yer 4, sport. Yer all right.

I still watch that last minute of that game 7...downloaded that game and knew it was the last time I'd see a Laker championship for a long time. Wish Phil retired that year

[Thread]

I still watch that last minute of that game 7...downloaded that game and knew it was the last time I'd see a Laker championship for a long time. Wish Phil retired that year

That's what a lot of people said after the old man ran Daddy off. Even Daddy said it. Now Daddy is sittin' in retirement eating Kobe's ass in perpetuity and this Forum suffers Kobe 5-4 over the bag Duncan.

"Nobody closes us out, Cully. Nobody."

[Koolaid_Man]

I gave you 2009 finals. I specifically said "in their last Finals", where you obviously failed to mention Kobe's horrific 40.5% shooting from the field on 23 attempts per game. Not to mention his infamous 6-24 chokejob in game 7 where he got bailed out by Pau's NINE offensive rebounds. Pau also averaging 11.6 rebounds per game and 2.6 blocks per game, getting his revenge on KG who owned his soul in the 08 finals

Hi guys can I jump into this conversation? with regards to Pau are we talking MVP of the Series or MVP or the final game...

Same age relatively speaking MJ was 33 and faced the Sonics (the Glove) while Kobe was 32 and faced the Celtics legendary defense

1996 Finals : MJ 41% fg, 27ppg 5rpg 4assists

Note: the last game of the 96 finals MJ shot 5-19 for (26%) in the close-out game against the Sonics. In the final game he had 22 pts, 9 rebounds, 7 assists, and 2 steals


2010 Finals : Kobe 41%, 28 ppg 8 rpg 4 assists

Note: the last game of the 2010 finals Kobe shot 6-24 for (25%) in the close-out game against the Celtics. In the finals game he had 23 pts, 15rbs, 2 assists, and 1 steal...

All comparable to Kobe. Don't forget Kobe out rebounded Boston's big 3 in game 7 by himself and I might add even though he shot poorly he still lead all scorers in the final game with 23 pts. So even when he has a " ty" game it's still better than everyone else's.... So in this case we're using other metrics (such as rebounds) other than scoring to prove we can

Sorry Spur fan..but Kool is so good that not only can he talk mad (and back it up) with the best of em he's also a really good analyzer of the art...

and to my new friend Lakersarethebesteva before you step to Kool...grow some balls peckerwood...I'll need something worth sharpening my knife for...

[Koolaid_Man]

Man that game 7 was really bad. I remember thinking if Kobe has a historic game today or just a solid performance then he will be remembered for that game as his "Jordan over Russell" moment. He really choked bad. If you say these things to Kobe-Ites they'll sodomize themselves and write a 400 page paper debating why it's not Kobe's fault.

How's the asshole this moning?

Kobe 2
Daddy 1

[midnightpulp]

Hi guys can I jump into this conversation? with regards to Pau are we talking MVP of the Series or MVP or the final game...

Same age relatively speaking MJ was 33 and faced the Sonics (the Glove) while Kobe was 32 and faced the Celtics legendary defense

1996 Finals : MJ 41% fg, 27ppg 5rpg 4assists

Note: the last game of the 96 finals MJ shot 5-19 for (26%) in the close-out game against the Sonics. In the final game he had 22 pts, 9 rebounds, 7 assists, and 2 steals


2010 Finals : Kobe 41%, 28 ppg 8 rpg 4 assists

Note: the last game of the 2010 finals Kobe shot 6-24 for (25%) in the close-out game against the Celtics. In the finals game he had 23 pts, 15rbs, 2 assists, and 1 steal...

All comparable to Kobe. Don't forget Kobe out rebounded Boston's big 3 in game 7 by himself and I might add even though he shot poorly he still lead all scorers in the final game with 23 pts. So even when he has a " ty" game it's still better than everyone else's.... So in this case we're using other metrics (such as rebounds) other than scoring to prove we can

Sorry Spur fan..but Kool is so good that not only can he talk mad (and back it up) with the best of em he's also a really good analyzer of the art...

and to my new friend Lakersarethebesteva before you step to Kool...grow some balls peckerwood...I'll need something worth sharpening my knife for...

[Koolaid_Man]

and finally I want to get this off my chest:

Kobe 5 (the modern day standard bearer)

Duncan 4 (* due to 99 lock-out year)
Shaq 4
Gasol 2
Wade 2
Garnett 1
Peirce 1
Allen 1
Lebron 1 * (lockout yr)
Dirk 1
Kidd 1
Durant 0
Westbrook 0
CP3 0
Melo 0
Harden 0
Rose 0
Nash 0
Dwight 0

Old Timers

Bird 3
Robinson 1 (* lock-out year)
Barkley 0
Ewing 0

[spurraider21]

Hi guys can I jump into this conversation? with regards to Pau are we talking MVP of the Series or MVP or the final game...

Same age relatively speaking MJ was 33 and faced the Sonics (the Glove) while Kobe was 32 and faced the Celtics legendary defense

1996 Finals : MJ 41% fg, 27ppg 5rpg 4assists

Note: the last game of the 96 finals MJ shot 5-19 for (26%) in the close-out game against the Sonics. In the final game he had 22 pts, 9 rebounds, 7 assists, and 2 steals


2010 Finals : Kobe 41%, 28 ppg 8 rpg 4 assists

Note: the last game of the 2010 finals Kobe shot 6-24 for (25%) in the close-out game against the Celtics. In the finals game he had 23 pts, 15rbs, 2 assists, and 1 steal...

All comparable to Kobe. Don't forget Kobe out rebounded Boston's big 3 in game 7 by himself and I might add even though he shot poorly he still lead all scorers in the final game with 23 pts. So even when he has a " ty" game it's still better than everyone else's.... So in this case we're using other metrics (such as rebounds) other than scoring to prove we can

Sorry Spur fan..but Kool is so good that not only can he talk mad (and back it up) with the best of em he's also a really good analyzer of the art...

and to my new friend Lakersarethebesteva before you step to Kool...grow some balls peckerwood...I'll need something worth sharpening my knife for...

pretty sure i gave pau's stats over the course of the series where he played pretty damn well. kobe was laying bricks throughout the series. With the Lakers facing elimination in game 6, Pau went off for 17, 13, and 9 with 3 blocks. He came up biggest in games 6 and 7 with the Lakers backs against the wall while in those games Kobe combined to shoot 15-43

[whitemamba]

pretty sure i gave pau's stats over the course of the series where he played pretty damn well. kobe was laying bricks throughout the series. With the Lakers facing elimination in game 6, Pau went off for 17, 13, and 9 with 3 blocks. He came up biggest in games 6 and 7 with the Lakers backs against the wall while in those games Kobe combined to shoot 15-43

that game 6 was a total blow out, every single player had something to contribute with that win. You insult his skills saying he was the reason they won that game

[whitemamba]

Hi guys can I jump into this conversation? with regards to Pau are we talking MVP of the Series or MVP or the final game...

Same age relatively speaking MJ was 33 and faced the Sonics (the Glove) while Kobe was 32 and faced the Celtics legendary defense

1996 Finals : MJ 41% fg, 27ppg 5rpg 4assists

Note: the last game of the 96 finals MJ shot 5-19 for (26%) in the close-out game against the Sonics. In the final game he had 22 pts, 9 rebounds, 7 assists, and 2 steals


2010 Finals : Kobe 41%, 28 ppg 8 rpg 4 assists

Note: the last game of the 2010 finals Kobe shot 6-24 for (25%) in the close-out game against the Celtics. In the finals game he had 23 pts, 15rbs, 2 assists, and 1 steal...

All comparable to Kobe. Don't forget Kobe out rebounded Boston's big 3 in game 7 by himself and I might add even though he shot poorly he still lead all scorers in the final game with 23 pts. So even when he has a " ty" game it's still better than everyone else's.... So in this case we're using other metrics (such as rebounds) other than scoring to prove we can

Sorry Spur fan..but Kool is so good that not only can he talk mad (and back it up) with the best of em he's also a really good analyzer of the art...

and to my new friend Lakersarethebesteva before you step to Kool...grow some balls peckerwood...I'll need something worth sharpening my knife for...

People cant handle MJ truth bombs, settle down now Kool

[spurraider21]

that game 6 was a total blow out, every single player had something to contribute with that win. You insult his skills saying he was the reason they won that game

i love the part where i said "he's the reason they won the game." oh wait.

i just brought up the fact that Pau had 2 consecutive great games in 2 consecutive games facing elimination. thats finals MVP material tbh. its not like he was shabby in their other wins either.

[freetiago]

LOL this got just announced he is doubtful and has the flu for tonights game
he really wants to be MJ

[Koolaid_Man]

LOL this got just announced he is doubtful and has the flu for tonights game
he really wants to be MJ

since it's common knowledge that his heart pumps snake venom and he has aircraft grade metal for knees - I also think he's faking this flu ...

[djohn2oo8]

LOL this got just announced he is doubtful and has the flu for tonights game
he really wants to be MJ

[Koolaid_Man]

pretty sure i gave pau's stats over the course of the series where he played pretty damn well. kobe was laying bricks throughout the series. With the Lakers facing elimination in game 6, Pau went off for 17, 13, and 9 with 3 blocks. He came up biggest in games 6 and 7 with the Lakers backs against the wall while in those games Kobe combined to shoot 15-43

Pau played his role....if he didn't avg this --> 2010 Finals : Kobe 41%, 28 ppg 8 rpg 4 assists then he doesn't get MVP...no comprendo?


well let me say it in Spanish: o me dinga and mi lluevos , puto

[djohn2oo8]

Even worse he has to fake it against the ing Kings

[spurraider21]

Pau played his role....if he didn't avg this --> 2010 Finals : Kobe 41%, 28 ppg 8 rpg 4 assists then he doesn't get MVP...no comprendo?


well let me say it in Spanish: o me dinga and mi lluevos , puto

kobe played his role too: inefficient chucker with a 1.00 assist/turnover ratio

summary of 2010 nba finals

[Koolaid_Man]

What irritates me about Kobe homers is that they want him to be exempt from all previous standards traditionally used to determine the best players of a particular era. Magic had the best playoff stats, most lead dog rings, and most Finals MVPs of his era. Jordan led those categories during his era. Kobe is 3rd in those categories behind Duncan and Shaq, but yet his fans (and some members of the media) insist he's the best player of his era. By what measurement? 81 points and 5 rings?

this is where you couldn't be more wrong....by his impact on the game and his rings...Duncan and Shaq were dominant at times but there is a reason the fans voted Kobe as the player of the decade because over that same 10 yr stretch as Shaq and Duncan he consistently proved he was a level above them from stats and rings for the duration of the decade...sure you can cherry pick your years and in some years that may have had statistically better seasons but not over the course of the era or the decade...that's why Kobe won it...and I'm sorry if Charles Barkley's little brain can't comprehend that...

From a traditional "measurement" standpoint I'm going to use this explanation from the Poster DMills from LG.

Arguing Kobe vs Lebron is tantamount to arguing about Science vs the Arts. Like arguing about a quadratic equation vs Raphael's "Scuola di Atene", physics vs philosophy etc.

Lebron has the stats, (hard data) on his side. His approach to the game is based largely on that. He plays the percentages, shoots from only places where he knows his % are highest. Cares deeply about data (stat line). His game is ugly. His footwork is ugly, his shot is ugly. (Though his passing is beautiful). But extremely effective and efficient. According to certain metrics, historically efficient.

Kobe is an artist. His game is a thing of beauty. Impeccable footwork, beautiful release on his shot, seemingly preternatural body control. But like most art, the beauty of his game can be in the eye of the beholder. It can be ugly, raw and misunderstood. But when it's displayed in it's full aesthetic potential, it's marvelous. Unparalleled even. Historically so.

For many years now basketball has been viewed as more of an art form where skill was placed on the highest pedestal. That's why a guy like Shaq who was devastatingly effective was looked down upon by past great bigmen like Wilt and Kareem. His game was ugly to them. Not viewed as skillful or aesthetically pleasing enough. And that's why for many years Kobe was more appreciated by people and looked at as the pinnacle of the post Jordan era by so many players past and present.

During the Lebron era things have changed. Stat geeks have gained considerable influence thanks to the efforts of guys like Darryl Morey and John Hollinger. PER, win shares and other metrics are given higher value then the pla udes often associated with the art/skill based view of the "old NBA". Basketball is being played and viewed through the lens of "science" now. Thus a player like Kobe is often dismissed as inefficient with a high "usage rating" etc, thus his value drops in such a view of basketball, while Lebron's value has skyrocketed.