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  1. #26
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    our defense rarely sucked in those days. it has been atrocious over the past week.

  2. #27
    Veteran EVAY's Avatar
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    I am also one of those who prefers watching defense-oriented basketball. But, as so many of you have pointed out, Stern et.al. changed the rules to allow more points to be scored, believing (with some reason) that offensive derring-do outshines defensive clamp-downs for the average, casual fan.
    That is who Stern went after in trying to expand the base of tv watchers and sell more ad revenues, the casual fan. Fans of the game itself like the way it used to be played, but there aren't enough people like that willing to pay the prices the owners want. That, plus the marketing of celebrity-driven basketball also pulls in the more casual fan.

    One thing that I think we all have to give credit to Pop etc. for is the change they have created in the team's approach. When we were playing defense-first basketball, we also had two hall of fame 7 footers, and all the perimeter guys had to do was force the shooters off the 3 point line into the waiting blocks of Duncan and Robinson. When we lost Robinson, it took Pop longer than I thought it should have to figure out that our perimeter guys were still playing the same defense as they had been before, but now they were forcing shooters to go to the rim to be met by the like of Nesterovich and Perdu. It didn't work, and the league kept changing the rules to enable more and more scoring. Plus, our offense hadn't changed and it was still considered boring by casual fans.

    Finally, Pop got both the message and the perimeter talent to change the offensive set around a catch and shoot game that relies on ball movement more than the Duncan 'bounce, bounce, bounce, back into the paint and shoot over somebody' game that was getting us wins but little ad revenue or national accolades. The offense we have now doesn't get as many foul calls as other teams because we are moving so much. Teams like OKC and Miami rely on superstars who go one-on-one and get foul calls. I still prefer to watch our kind of basketball, and I think that the coaching staff has done a terrific job of getting and utilizing talent that remains consistent with a true basketball fan's approach to the game, even if we can't win championships because the league remains celebrity and big-market driven.

    All of the above is why I still prefer to watch our team play than most others, why I believe that we will win lots of regular season games, but that, as many of you have pointed out, we are not going to be able to win the whole thing because the league is going to want its product to remain what it has become.

    To sell the Spurs, the league would have to sell basketball as a game. The league would have to educate the public to appreciate the game itself. That is not going to happen. Dunk contests and celebrity one-on-one play will continue to be rewarded.

    We have to accept our reward as being able to watch the best basketball being played the right way from a small market and non-celebrity team as long as we can.

    I like this team. We don't always play well. But we play right most of the time, and we play basketball. That's pretty much enough for me.

    I have never bought into the 'real season is the playoffs', precisely because that is when the last thing that is important to winning is how well the game is being played. Of much greater import is who is playing and what sells. Thus, refs count more and celeb players count more in the playoffs than in the regular season. That is the product that is being sold.

  3. #28
    Veteran EVAY's Avatar
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    By the way, E-N, thanks for starting a thread that is actually thoughtful and thought provoking.

  4. #29
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    For example if the old "bad boy" pistons were to play against the thunder today Duhrant and Westbrick would each shoot 20 free throws apiece.
    Utterly untrue and a complete slander on the Bad Boys. After the 3ed phantom foul call (6th FT), Rick Mahorn would break Westbrook in half on his next drive - they'd carry Westbrook off on a stretcher...Lets see you shoot those FT's from a hospital bed punk!

  5. #30
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    By the way, E-N, thanks for starting a thread that is actually thoughtful and thought provoking.

  6. #31
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    I am also one of those who prefers watching defense-oriented basketball. But, as so many of you have pointed out, Stern et.al. changed the rules to allow more points to be scored, believing (with some reason) that offensive derring-do outshines defensive clamp-downs for the average, casual fan.
    That is who Stern went after in trying to expand the base of tv watchers and sell more ad revenues, the casual fan. Fans of the game itself like the way it used to be played, but there aren't enough people like that willing to pay the prices the owners want. That, plus the marketing of celebrity-driven basketball also pulls in the more casual fan.
    As much as the NBA has handcuffed defenders they've also relaxed illegal defense rules. It's now harder to be a 20+ game scorer.

  7. #32
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    Hand/forearm checking away from the basket, defensive 3 seconds not employed, we are watching a very different game today.

    very hard for me to approach as the game is so different.

    I will agree that 99 was great. Funneling players to the baseline daring them to try Robinson/Duncan out...
    That year was so fun watching us just grind teams down in the playoffs, we just slowly but surely sucked the will out of opponents. It was close to torture. The inevitability of slow, complete strangulation.

  8. #33
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    As much as the NBA has handcuffed defenders they've also relaxed illegal defense rules. It's now harder to be a 20+ game scorer.
    You can play zone. But, you cant park a big man under the basket. Huge advantage offense IMO.

  9. #34
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    Sorry gramps, but the NBA has changed since the 90s. I too long for the days when I would watch a game to see Anthony Mason elbow dudes in the chops when going for boards but now we have monkeyball.
    Oh bull . The Spurs didn't hold the opposing team's scoring down because of excessive hand-checking. I'm not pining for the days of VanGundyBall, where you run seven-seconds-or-less after dribbling the ball for 17 seconds first. The Spurs did it by keeping teams out of the paint and running them off the three point line. The Spurs defended with their feet and their length, not with their hands. They have the roster to do it this year, which is frankly the only shot they have at a le.

  10. #35
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    That happened last season. After all the past seasons I asked myself what if the Big 3 had been healthy? That "excuse" went down the toilet last season. Spurs were rolling. Spurs were healthy. Spurs lost in the WCF. Of course we had other excuses (the refs, Ibaka & Perkins shooting like they were Ray Allen, etc.), but this year we might be healthy and we are playing better defense ... thats whats nice.
    Duncan wasn't exactly injured last year, but he was a shadow of what he's been this year. As far as excuses, I'd certainly put going cold from three point range and lack of defense above refs or Perkins and Ibaka.

    I've said over and over that the Spurs likely missed their window last year. It sure would have been nice to have this resurgent belief in the importance of defense from Pop last season. Barring that, I'm sure happy to have it going forward.

  11. #36
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    Duncan wasn't exactly injured last year, but he was a shadow of what he's been this year. As far as excuses, I'd certainly put going cold from three point range and lack of defense above refs or Perkins and Ibaka.

    I've said over and over that the Spurs likely missed their window last year. It sure would have been nice to have this resurgent belief in the importance of defense from Pop last season. Barring that, I'm sure happy to have it going forward.
    It would have been better if Pop never lost faith in defense. Because he stopped believing in it he let good defenders like Malik Hairston get away.

  12. #37
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    It would have been better if Pop never lost faith in defense. Because he stopped believing in it he let good defenders like Malik Hairston get away.
    Worse, he let Matt Bonner eat up all those minutes.

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