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Can't have this discussion now, Duncan is past his prime so we know what he did but LeBron is just getting started.
upstairs quote?
Can't have this discussion now, Duncan is past his prime so we know what he did but LeBron is just getting started.
wow. lets wait until he wins more than one ring to call him top 10 all time.
The San Antonio Heat Lebron love is real downstairs. sheesh.
truth. If duncan would have played in the east I think he would have had a finals appearance 10 out of 15 years.
Prime Duncan had to play against guys like KG, Shaq, Nowitzki, Webber, J. O'Neal, Ben/Rasheed Wallace etc. can you imagine a prime Duncan going against guys like Griffin, Bosh, Porkins, Ibaka, Randolph, A. Jefferson, etc.? I'm getting a boner just thinking about it .
He's top 10 all-time because he has put up some monster seasons and dragged a ridiculously weak Cleveland supporting cast to 66 and 61 wins. The same piece of team that lost 25 straight the next season. I mean 66 wins out of Ilguaskas, Williams, and complete crap is unreal. When Kobe had a better supporting cast in Odom and Butler he didn't even make the playoffs, and he's widely regarded as a top 10 player. It's laughable that people would say James isn't an all-time great already with the seasons he has had his entire career. He has been the best player in the league since 2007, which is pretty damn impressive now that it's 2013. Jordan is the only player in the modern era of the league that you could ever say was the best player in the game for 7 straight seasons.
prime lebron lol padding stats against leastern teams in the playoffs
its re ed to bash on Lebron for losing in the finals. one of the finals, his team had no business being in there, and he single-handedly willed them there (2007 finals), and pretty much every superstar ever has some series where they had a less than stellar performance (2011 finals, where the Mavs cared almost only about stopping Lebron and letting everyone else get theirs), but Lebron has pretty much always been nothing short of money in the playoffs.
im not impress with the heat runs last 2 years, gettin pushed in the first and 2nd round by fodder teams...
I'm a trend setter.
I set trends.
I take a prime LeBron over a prime Duncan all day, every day and wouldn't think twice about it. I think LeBron these past couple seasons has been so good that the better debate is prime LeBron and prime Jordan. I think he's been that dominant, that good. Career wise, it's still Duncan easily. But obviously as many have already suggested, LeBron still has a ways to go in his career. He probably has a good 5+ seasons of pure dominance and probably a handful more of really, really good seasons beyond that. Health willing and with at least one more NBA le (not unlikely, and probable that he ends up with 3 or 4 or 5 les), LeBron will be in the discussion as the GOAT. From an individual talent and performance point of view, I already have a hard time not believing that LeBron of the last few years is the greatest player in the history of the game. It might be heresy, but yes even greater than Jordan.
Also, I never got why some people criticize players for losing in the NBA Finals. How is getting to the Finals and losing worse than not getting to the Finals at all? Hakeem is undefeated in the NBA Finals. Magic lost 4 times in the NBA Finals. Bird lost twice in the NBA Finals. But I don't think I've ever heard or read arguments that Hakeem is better than either, or how Magic and Bird losing multiple times in the NBA Finals somehow stain their resumes and legacies as great players. Even if the performance in the NBA Finals is not good, I still don't view that as worse than losing in the earlier rounds of the post season. Doesn't make sense to me. For example, with Jordan, I don't think what's so impressive is that Jordan is undefeated in the NBA Finals, but more so that once he got there, he went there every year afterwards in his prime except for that one partial season when he came back from his first retirement. A superstar who say over a 10 year period of his prime wins 2 les and then gets to the Finals 3 more times but loses is more impressive than the guy who wins 2 les but doesn't get to the Finals in any of the other 8 years, regardless of the performances when the first guy lost in the Finals the other 3 times.
Duncan didn't leave the Spurs to go chase a championship because he was good enough to win championships as the main man and was always the leader. Lebron is a hipster immature bag.
I hate to say it, but LeBron gets the nod. LeBron for the past 2 seasons has been playing at a level the league has pretty much only seen during MJ's reign. Timmy's career is more accomplished, and by quite a bit, but as far as better player? I'd have to say Bron. Scary good to watch. However, basketball IS still a team game. I don't think if you were starting franchises, you could go wrong either way (Prime Tim vs Prime Bron). You'd have a beast either way (assuming health). But LeBron is something else
I agree with this.... we've never seen anything like the Kang in this league before, someone who can dominate at every position except center on both ends of the court.... not even Jordan could do that, tbh....
Lebron and it ain't even close. Duncan had like 7 great seasons (1999 - 2005), but Lebron is on another level tbh.
As i said earlier, if he rings this year he'll officially surpass Kobe, Shaq & Duncan on the all time list and he still has maybe 4 - 5 years of prime seasons. The scary thing about Lebron though is that he's still improving his game and that's what worries some fans (especially some Kobe fans who still think Kobe is the greatest player post the Jordan era).
Jesus H. Christ.
You mother ers. I wished ya's never came and got me again.
i'm pretty sure lebron won last year as the main man
If that face of a Dan Gilbert ever gave lebron a supporting cast like Timmy had i'm pretty sure he still would be in cleveland now right now.
It's not like Dan Gilbert didn't had enough years to put together a good team, i would arque that bringing that 2007 team to the finals was more impressive as any of Timmy's rings.
Comparing wing players to front court players is always tricky. If I am picking an all time fantasy team, I'm almost always going with a big first. They simply play a more important role on the court. Guys like Duncan, Shaq, and Hakeem feast on easy, high percentage buckets and can shut down the lane on the other end. Lebron is one of the few guys, like Jordan, who may go on a dominant run without a big. He is the exception, not the rule. I personally don't think the Heat could win multiple les if they were playing against the early 2000s Spurs or Lakers.
For a good comparison, ask yourself who you think would win in a match up between the 2001 Spurs and the 2007 Cavaliers. If you take Duncan and Lebron off those teams, they are mediocre clubs that probably don't make the playoffs. I'd take the Spurs all day. Matched with even talent, I think a prime Duncan led team beats a prime Lebron team a majority of the time.
I'd take the 2001 Spurs because while Duncan vs James would have been a wash, Robinson absolutely kills Ilgauskas in that matchup while Antonio Daniels/Derek Anderson can be hid on Sasha Pavlovic.
So what you are saying is that lebron was in his prime in 2007 ? I get where you're coming from, But a prime Lebron is this year and last year. Careerwise TD may be ahead ( way ahead, rings etc ) but this Lebron is ahead, Also way ahead of any player in his prime this last decade.
If Timmy's 6'11, Lebron's gotta be at least 6'9..
Technically speaking, Duncan wasn't in his prime in 2001 either. In the years I listed, both were in the league for roughly the same amount of time. I picked those two teams because they were two of the weaker contenders both players played on. The point I was trying to make is that I think a Duncan led team would be better than a Lebron led team if all the parts are equal. Both players play their positions about as well as possible, but as a big Duncan is simply more important.
^ I agree with mercos.
Also, Tim at his best was equally unguardable as Lebron is now. He could average 35 points per game if he wanted to. That, plus his ability to change the game defensively, plus his ability to quarterback an entire team from his position, makes him better in my opinion.
I agree he is an all-time great but I dont gve much credence to that Finals run in a weak East. It's still a Finals trip and it matters but those that act like it gives Lebron bonus points to his ledger are full of it. I give him props for his performance against the Pistons THAT was impressive. Stilldoesnt change the fact he the bed twice in the Finals and needs to add another one this year and at least two more to pass Duncan and then maybe Kobe.
It's funny how some Spur fans are so quick to leapfrog duncan to place Lebron over Kobe and next to MJ ...give him time he may get there. No need to rush ...
well I don't know. With Duncan you pretty much have a guaranteed HOFer for the next 15 seasons.
Lebron is working on his 2nd team and probably will move on 1 or 2 more times.
Eventhough Lebron is probably the superior player, I'd still take Duncan for the loyalty, consistency and great chemisty you will get the next 15 seasons. Duncan also takes you higher defensively from the getgo and IMO it's allways easier to build a team around a bigman.
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