Rockets: James Harden has the ugliest game..

[ElNono]

Too many but hurt spur fans in this thread. Comeon guys, we don't make excuses like the lakers. Harden balled tonight and he did what Manu pretty much did his entire career with us. Its always different when you see things from a different angle.

I'm not taking anything away from Harden... he's definitely tops SG right now...

But Manu shot 17fts in a game only twice in his entire career...

[sook]

sook, not hating, but I really can't say that about most players. Only him and Durant are over 30%... Lebron doesn't even crack the 20% and you can't tell me he doesn't drive to the rack.

Not saying I agree with the fouls, that a player can initiate contact in a certain way and draw FTs, but that is the way the NBA is set. Guys do it all the time, Kobe draws the defender like that half the game. I personally don't like it, playing basketball and whatnot that is just giving the offensive player too much leeway but the NBA isn't going to change the fact they consider it a foul.
See this Leanord play at the end? How Harden hesitates a bit to draw him into the vacuum and draws the momentum when shooting? Thats a foul any other time in the game and that is what he normally does. Should they have called it? No. Its the last play of the game and people shouldn't get bailed out like that even though it may help the team win. It was a good no call.

That kind of stuff is essentially what he does most of the time.
The other times he beats his man off the dribble and forces the defense to blatantly grab him by the arm or something so he has to get the FTs, a lot of the times he finishes with a 3 pt play. I think he leads the league in those maybe? With the type of fouls in this instance, you can't ever say anything when the defense is put in the position to HAVE to foul, that is a skill and a smart play.

Blatant flop? I saw one of those against Captain Jack and I'm with you guys on that play. Don't think got any FTs out of it though.

[ElNono]

BTW, this is the thread I was referring to above:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211078

It's funny too, because I thought the leader was going to be Durant hands down... but Harden beats him by a good margin...

[sook]

^ You have to take their games into context. Lebron gets high % shots , especially with the way him and wade are playing together there is a reason both their FG% are so high. Harden plays on a team with (You know his supporting cast) in order to drive in the lane he has to pick his opportunities really well. If he has a reputation for driving and finishing really well and he is open, he knows the defense would rather foul than let him finish and he takes advantage of that. There is no eleborate system on offense for us where we clear stuff out for him and make it easier. He does the heavy lifting. Out of all the guys you listed he is the one that drives to the basket relentlessly like a madman. Durant? I can see what you mean by that. Its a whistle for any sort of jumper he takes.

[TDMVPDPOY]

butthurt kents coming down here looking for sympathy and excuses, go back upstairs clowns

[ElNono]

^ You have to take their games into context. Lebron gets high % shots , especially with the way him and wade are playing together there is a reason both their FG% are so high. Harden plays on a team with (You know his supporting cast) in order to drive in the lane he has to pick his opportunities really well. If he has a reputation for driving and finishing really well and he is open, he knows the defense would rather foul than let him finish and he takes advantage of that. There is no eleborate system on offense for us where we clear stuff out for him and make it easier. He does the heavy lifting. I wasn't sold on harden till just earlier last month because I sort of had a problem with his game. The guy plays smart though and works hard.

As I said earlier, I have much less of a problem with Harden getting the freebies because he does go to the rack a lot. He just gets a phenomenal amount of calls. And people keep bringing up Manu, but Manu even in his prime never averaged over 6 FTA/game.

It's hard to bring this up without looking like you're whining, but whatever. I think you rocketfan know what I'm saying, and I'm not trying to take anything away from Harden.

[hater]

Too many but hurt spur fans in this thread. Comeon guys, we don't make excuses like the lakers. Harden balled tonight and he did what Manu pretty much did his entire career with us. Its always different when you see things from a different angle.

Too many butthurt spursfans here.
Harden is a talented motherf*cker.
IMO, top 2 sg in the league

truth bombs

but IMO he's #1 SG inthe league

[sook]

As I said earlier, I have much less of a problem with Harden getting the freebies because he does go to the rack a lot. He just gets a phenomenal amount of calls. And people keep bringing up Manu, but Manu even in his prime never averaged over 6 FTA/game.

It's hard to bring this up without looking like you're whining, but whatever. I think you rocketfan know what I'm saying, and I'm not trying to take anything away from Harden.

no you have a legitimate argument and I have to turn off Bull and Clyde on the rockets broadcast whenever they talk about other players doing it and never acknowledge Harden doing it. Tonight was a lot of FTs, but the way the game was being played and the fact we were at home It wasn't that much of a stretch. On the road and playing vs a team where we shoot a lot more jumpers? yea thats fishy.

[hater]

btw I didn't see Harden drawing many BS fouls tonight. Nothing that Wade/Kobe don't do on any given night.

spursfan still bitter from WCF asskickin IMO

[ElNono]

no you have a legitimate argument and I have to turn off Bull and Clyde on the rockets broadcast whenever they talk about other players doing it and never acknowledge Harden doing it. Tonight was a lot of FTs, but the way the game was being played and the fact we were at home It wasn't that much of a stretch. On the road and playing vs a team where we shoot a lot more jumpers? yea thats fishy.

I don't mind the home cooking, I think every team more or less gets their fair share. I'm not even talking about this particular game, tbh... he definitely has the ability of drawing a lot of fouls... I checked historically players averaging what he's averaging this season in FTA, and it's a pretty short list: link. He's definitely special talent.

I thought we played well enough to win tonight, and Rockets just beat us.

[TrainOfThought5]

Harden was 6-16. almost Kobe levels of inefficiency tonight.

the real story is Asiks A+ defense on Timmy. and if i remember correctly some of the posters in this thread were ing about thwir GM. is he still horrible or have yall stopped bein pussified fans?

[jestersmash]

Harden FT come from drives and late game double bonuses.

He doesn't get them like Durant from rip through and pump fake, jump into defender moves

The irritating thing is that the refs claimed they would be clamping down on this rip through move by not rewarding free throws anymore (unless the team is in the bonus, of course).

[jestersmash]

And any spursfan claiming foul (no pun intended) on the overall reffing tonight doesn't have a leg to stand on, tbh.

Motiejunas was call for 3 or 4 B.S. "fouls" on Duncan early on in the game. Duncan had an up and under move where Motiejunas was completely still with his hands straight up, and Duncan was awarded free throws anyway.

The Harden phantom "foul" on Danny Green that resulted in 3 free throws was unwarranted, as was the Harden flop late in game that resulted in 3 free throws for him (these cancel out).

I saw a couple of plays where Parker was fouled on the elbow by that Rockets rookie (I forget his name) that wasn't called, and a handful of blatant flops from Harden, but overall I thought both sides benefited from unwarranted free throws to some extent. Did the Rockets benefit more overall? Probably. But it wasn't as bad as spurfan makes it seem.

I saw some spurfans comparing this game to Spurs/OKC game 6 last year

[ElNono]

The irritating thing is that the refs claimed they would be clamping down on this rip through move by not rewarding free throws anymore (unless the team is in the bonus, of course).

I remember that... it was the Durant rule, tbh... it was all lip service

[ElNono]

FWIW, I think pretty much all spursfan are in agreement it's a relief that dude isn't in OKC anymore...

[HarlemHeat37]

And any spursfan claiming foul (no pun intended) on the overall reffing tonight doesn't have a leg to stand on, tbh.

Motiejunas was call for 3 or 4 B.S. "fouls" on Duncan early on in the game. Duncan had an up and under move where Motiejunas was completely still with his hands straight up, and Duncan was awarded free throws anyway.

The Harden phantom "foul" on Danny Green that resulted in 3 free throws was unwarranted, as was the Harden flop late in game that resulted in 3 free throws for him (these cancel out).

I saw a couple of plays where Parker was fouled on the elbow by that Rockets rookie (I forget his name) that wasn't called, and a handful of blatant flops from Harden, but overall I thought both sides benefited from unwarranted free throws to some extent. Did the Rockets benefit more overall? Probably. But it wasn't as bad as spurfan makes it seem.

I saw some spurfans comparing this game to Spurs/OKC game 6 last year

I agree, I didn't blame the refs tonight, I even said it was a fairly officiated game..

I've been saying this well before tonight, tbh..I have respect for Harden's production and impact, but his game is ugly and relies on exploiting today's rules .

[jestersmash]

I agree, I didn't blame the refs tonight, I even said it was a fairly officiated game..

I've been saying this well before tonight, tbh..I have respect for Harden's production and impact, but his game is ugly and relies on exploiting today's rules .

Yeah I agree. I was mostly referring to posts made in the game thread upstairs. I know you didn't blame the refs tonight.

[FkLA]

Harden is the smoothest player in the league tbh. is a master in the pick and roll and his handles are pretty nasty for a two guard...hes relentless and able to get to the rim almost at will too. Never had an issue with his FTs, he gets most of them because hes on the attack all the time. Its not like he purposely goes under a defenders hand 2-3 times a game tbh.

[Trill Clinton]

i can tell harden grew up playing with his uncles and older cats, his game is so advanced for being 23. he has that old man street ball game. he reminds me of this guy I used to hoop with named "mad ball". he attacked the basket non stop, always drew contact and every shot attempt was either a foul or a make.

[GuerillaBlack]

I disagree..he runs into defenders and swings his arms upwards for the majority of his fouls..

Harden's FTAs are rarely drawn by defenders fouling after they are beaten..similar to Durant's FTAs, tbh..

Harden sticks his arms out while he drives and his constantly hacked on his arms by defenders trying to hit the ball.

[pikkiwoki]

spursfan hating on a carbon copy of Manu Ginobili

pathetic

Harden is at 10.3 FTA/gm. Manu has never averaged more than 6 FTA/gm.

Harden does a couple things well and milks them. Manu's game is a lot more diverse.

Harden is a great player, easily top 10, but his game is clearly hideous..

If I was a Rockets fan, I wouldn't care about his game being ugly, as long as it's effective..however, denying that his game is ugly is blatant homerism, tbh..

Same for Wade tbh. Never seen a superstar perimeter scorer with a jumpshot...until Wade. Also Lebron, until recently. But yeah, fck Wade.

Harden is the smoothest player in the league tbh. is a master in the pick and roll and his handles are pretty nasty for a two guard...hes relentless and able to get to the rim almost at will too. Never had an issue with his FTs, he gets most of them because hes on the attack all the time. Its not like he purposely goes under a defenders hand 2-3 times a game tbh.

[pikkiwoki]

If it was practical, the league would neuter Harden's rip through moves on his drives just like they neutered the stand still rip through move that Tim/KMart/Durant used to milk.

They would do it because the intent is the same, not to score but to get cheap free throws.

But they can't because it's not as easy to detect on drives. So Harden's backdoor to superstar production is safe...for now. Harden found himself a tax shelter.

[chunticakes]

i can tell harden grew up playing with his uncles and older cats, his game is so advanced for being 23. he has that old man street ball game. he reminds me of this guy I used to hoop with named "mad ball". he attacked the basket non stop, always drew contact and every shot attempt was either a foul or a make.

lol i know exactly what you mean. lol @ mad ball.

[Trill Clinton]

lol i know exactly what you mean. lol @ mad ball.

lol

[djohn2oo8]

Harden is at 10.3 FTA/gm. Manu has never averaged more than 6 FTA/gm.

Harden does a couple things well and milks them. Manu's game is a lot more diverse.




Same for Wade tbh. Never seen a superstar perimeter scorer with a jumpshot...until Wade. Also Lebron, until recently. But yeah, fck Wade.

Typical GNSF response