Manu Ginobili played like crap again

[ElNono]

the sad thing is, I really didn't even read your posts in this thread

That much is clear, tbh

[ElNono]

Well, it has a lot to do with most of bench players being in and out of the rotation.

For example, 11 of the 12 most used 5-men lineups with Manu have Parker in it while Manu has played 48.7% of his minutes paired with Parker. It could be easily explained when you realize that the backup PG spot has been shared between Neal, Mills, De Colo, Joseph and Manu himself.

Sure, that's certainly part of the analysis. The reason the backup PG has been a constant shuffle is because Neal has been hurt and hasn't played well at all. Neither Mills, DeColo or CoJo have earned the spot (all three have been very limited when it comes to contributing offense). Pop has also not found production in Blair (who mostly plays limited minutes in the 1st half, if at all these days), and Bonner is clocking in the fewest minutes per game since his first two years as a Spur. Diaw is the only bench guy that has had a consistent production with the bench unit, and he really isn't a scorer either.

And by that I don't mean Manu is off the hook, but that he actually carries a heavier load for per minute bench production than seasons' past. Which IMO is the reason why the most worrying aspect is his shooting slump.

One of Manu's task is to carry the bench when Parker and Duncan are resting at the juncture of the first and second quarters and at the juncture of the third and fourth quarters. He was usually damn great at it but it hasn't been the case since the hamstring injury. It's obviously not his only. For reference, he is playing 37% of his minutes without both Tim and Tony on the court.

That's actually what I was pointing out... He's playing almost 2 out of 3 minutes with both Tony and Tim on the court. His horrid plus/minus should also translate to those guys, but it really has not. Or you could argue the other's guys plus/minus production would cover Manu's ass, but given the numbers you posted, they have not. There's simply much easier and clear indicators about Manu's individual struggle and that's his shooting stats and turnovers. And those are certainly not pretty over the last 16 games or so.

[weeks]

That much is clear, tbh

No one believes for a second you'd spend this much time and energy trying to 'splain away the decline of a player born in Detroit.

[ElNono]

No one believes for a second I read anything in this thread, but let's make this about you instead of the topic at hand

lol rational and objective

[MR-Clutch]

Not worried. Every year, Manu has a series of games where posters jump off the cliff, and resurrect the "Will Manu ever score 20 pts again" thread, right before Manu shuts all cliff jumpers up by going into god mode. It could be the next game, or it could be 5 from now, or not even until playoffs, but Manu will find his rhythm and make the cliff jumpers look stupid as always. Mark my words, Manu will be back.

[hater]

no one wants to see ginobili do more or play better than me, believe me. he's one of my favorite players on the team and in the entire NBA.
he's just getting old, but can't mentally accept it. so someone else will have to make that call for his sake.
it's not like there aren't glorious precedents - (jordan)

Amen brother. been preaching that for months

[Strategic]

Not worried. Every year, Manu has a series of games where posters jump off the cliff, and resurrect the "Will Manu ever score 20 pts again" thread, right before Manu shuts all cliff jumpers up by going into god mode. It could be the next game, or it could be 5 from now, or not even until playoffs, but Manu will find his rhythm and make the cliff jumpers look stupid as always. Mark my words, Manu will be back.

So let everyone else carry the load during the season. Then in the playoffs(or every fourth or fifth game), Manu will go into "hero mode" and you can worship him. sweet. I guess.

[Obstructed_View]

The biggest problem I've seen from Ginobili the last month or so is when he dribbles the ball from the top of the key and ends up doubled, usually after a pick is set. The ball is stolen in traffic, he attempts a cross court pass that's deflected, sometimes compounded by his jumping to make the pass, or he's forced into a bad shot that's highly contested. Once in a while he makes a difficult pass back to the other guard at the top of the key, which doesn't improve the chances of a shot, especially if it's the 85 percent of the time that it's someone other than Parker he passes to.*

If Manu can't split the double or force them under so he can shoot, then the only players that should be running screens for him at this point are Splitter, and, if you insist on having Manu handle the ball off the bench, Blair, because they're the best at rolling to the basket when the defenders leave them alone.

Barring that, I'd much prefer everyone clear the out and let him go one on one instead of bringing a big and his defender up so they can crowd him into a mistake. It's entirely possible that someone could look at his poor production and point a finger toward the guys setting the ty picks and not being any kind of an offensive threat.


*some of you will remember Memphis killing the Spurs with this defense in the playoffs, against all of the Spurs' guards.

[Brazil]

strangely enough the fact Bonner and Blair not logging significant minutes is hurting Manu's game. Matt opens the lane for Manu's drives to the basket and Blair has always plaid well with Manu on P&R sets for the reason mentioned by O_v

[superbigtime]

It's gettin ugly.

[Obstructed_View]

strangely enough the fact Bonner and Blair not logging significant minutes is hurting Manu's game. Matt opens the lane for Manu's drives to the basket and Blair has always plaid well with Manu on P&R sets for the reason mentioned by O_v

Bonner would be the screen guy in my scenario, so unless he rolls back up to the three point line and can get a shot off, he's pretty useless in that situation. Additionally, I can't say I recall having seen the Spurs run that.

[ElNono]

strangely enough the fact Bonner and Blair not logging significant minutes is hurting Manu's game. Matt opens the lane for Manu's drives to the basket and Blair has always plaid well with Manu on P&R sets for the reason mentioned by O_v

Couldn't disagree more. Manu's best companion from the bench last season was simply Tiago. An actual big that both could play D and garnered enough attention on O to stop teams from focusing solely on Manu, IMO.

[Brazil]

Couldn't disagree more. Manu's best companion from the bench last season was simply Tiago. An actual big that both could play D and garnered enough attention on O to stop teams from focusing solely on Manu, IMO.

my point is solely regarding O. For the rest, yes Tiago draw attention on O but near the rim, driving inside is the bread and butter of Manu's game and I just feel Tiago, Tim and Diaw that are the bigs with whom he is spending the most of the time on the court don't spread the floor enough for him.

don't get me wrong here I'm not saying playblair or playbonner, I'm just saying the fact they don't log any minutes anymore can be a factor.

[Brazil]

Bonner would be the screen guy in my scenario, so unless he rolls back up to the three point line and can get a shot off, he's pretty useless in that situation. Additionally, I can't say I recall having seen the Spurs run that.

I didn't suggest Spurs to use Bonner as the screen guy, I was solely pointing out that Bonner and Blair minutes limitation for Diaw and Tiago might hurt a bit Manu's O game.

[tmtcsc]

I sincerely hope Manu gets his mojo back tonight. Reduce the turnovers, commit to defense and hit clutch baskets when and if needed. Shake the f'n rust already and just play.

[TMTTRIO]

not counting on it. Let's just hope someone else off the bench steps up big time and Manu will play less.

[hater]

I'm more conservative. Manu please don't injure yourself or any of your teammates out there tonight. thanks

[Obstructed_View]

I didn't suggest Spurs to use Bonner as the screen guy, I was solely pointing out that Bonner and Blair minutes limitation for Diaw and Tiago might hurt a bit Manu's O game.

If you suggested that Bonner should be in the game more, then you sort of did. There are three guys behind the three point line when Manu runs those screen and rolls, one in each corner and the other guard at the top. If you put Bonner in one of those spots you free up a defender to cheat off Bonner because they know he can't penetrate. Defenders welcome the difficult, cross-court pass because that's where Manu turns over the ball.

Now that you mention it, the Spurs probably shouldn't run that play in smallball lineups at all.

[freetiago]

started out decent in the first then the bed the first of the way
key turnover and tripped over himself again and almost lost it on the last play

[TMTTRIO]

I'm counting the days until he retires. Hopefully it'll be soon. It's been really painful watching him.

[ElNono]

decent 1st half... he was great when tony went to get xrays in the 3rd... clutch 3... finally 45% shooting... the 3 turnovers were all poor decisions, IMO, but steps in the right direction...

[jestersmash]

Micro-steps, but steps nonetheless I suppose.

[Darius McCrary]

At what point is SpursTalk in denial about the fact that Manu is finished?

[emanueldavidginobili]

I really don't care how bad or good Manu plays..When it comes playoff time and Manu is still playing poorly, then I am very very concerned but until its all good as long as we win

[admiralfats]

he's forcing passes that aren't there, but mostly his shooting has just been dreadful. if he gets his outside touch back, he'll be useful. and needs to stop turning the damn ball over