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  1. #51
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Read what I said again ...
    I did. You didn't give a straight answer. You said you didn't care. But you did, that's why you are still here.

  2. #52
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Lol @ advanced stats nerds...good luck in your quest to make following sports about as much fun as doing your taxes
    I am sorry you are a numbers re . Good luck in getting the right number of nickels and dimes when you are giving change back to the customer at the cashier.

  3. #53
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Amb was so quick with his reply he missed that I said 2010 regular season and first 6 games of playoffs 2006 was fine work but no ring amb, in the end that is what matters.
    Which means you didn't answer the question.

  4. #54
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Seriously, that page he linked, man...wtf was that, apparently I need a tutor to follow basketball now
    You don't need to, somebody smarter than us already did the calculations.

    And you don't have to know which players are overrated to enjoy the game. You can just go chant "defense" with the rest of the crowd and think you have a hand in helping the team win.

  5. #55
    Veteran Killakobe81's Avatar
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    Untrue. If you actually watched both of those series, you would have seen how Kobe made it his mission to shoot the ball every time he's got. Shaq was absolutely destroying the Pistons frontline, and yet Kobe kept shooting these fade away bull long range jumpers. So what did the media change the story to? They said Shaq was old and over the hill (even though Shaq finished #2 in MVP voting the very next season in Miami).

    In 08, Kobe kept his chucking , and ignored Pau in the low post. Gasol had 62 total FG in the entire series despite shooting 53%, while Kobe had 131 despite shooting 131 (that's more than double). The media made up this story about Gasol wilting under pressure, took sound bites out of context, and used one or two plays at the end of the game to justify Gasol as soft, blaming the entire blame on him.

    Stick to facts, Amb when you get passionate your hate, bias and agenda show. Why do you care so much about Pau's legacy? LOL

  6. #56
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    I think shaq/Kobe were talented enough to win eventually sans Phil ...but no way they 3 peat
    The back2back Lakers were good but without PJ they lose to Celts and Rox those years
    Tough to say, we have seen plenty of extremely talented teams not win because they don't have good coaches. Coaches bring structure and direction to a team (well, good ones), and without Phil, Kobe and Shaq would have imploded way before 2004.

  7. #57
    Veteran Killakobe81's Avatar
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    Which means you didn't answer the question.
    I did, read the first three lines you just don't like my answer ..rings baby

  8. #58
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Stick to facts, Amb when you get passionate your hate, bias and agenda show. Why do you care so much about Pau's legacy? LOL
    Those were the facts.

    I hate it when players don't get their due (see my stance on Dirk, a one time major adversary to the Spurs)

    I also hate it when players get way more than their due.

  9. #59
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    I did read the first three lines.
    2010 it is then, but then you didn't care.

    And that is absolutely the wrong answer.

    Kobe was at his absolute prime from early to mid 00s.

  10. #60
    Believe. mindcrime's Avatar
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    Untrue. If you actually watched both of those series, you would have seen how Kobe made it his mission to shoot the ball every time he's got. Shaq was absolutely destroying the Pistons frontline, and yet Kobe kept shooting these fade away bull long range jumpers. So what did the media change the story to? They said Shaq was old and over the hill (even though Shaq finished #2 in MVP voting the very next season in Miami).

    In 08, Kobe kept his chucking , and ignored Pau in the low post. Gasol had 62 total FG in the entire series despite shooting 53%, while Kobe had 131 despite shooting 131 (that's more than double). The media made up this story about Gasol wilting under pressure, took sound bites out of context, and used one or two plays at the end of the game to justify Gasol as soft, blaming the entire blame on him.
    Kobe is selfish and shoots too much, we know. Had either Shaq (04) or Pau (08) received more touches, the final outcomes of the series would be the same. The Pistons and Celtics were hungrier. They were not going to be denied.

  11. #61
    Veteran Killakobe81's Avatar
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    Those were the facts.

    I hate it when players don't get their due (see my stance on Dirk, a one time major adversary to the Spurs)

    I also hate it when players get way more than their due.
    Thing that kills me you call him a superstar and a leader, but sans Kobe ...Pau (again a great player) had a penchant for coming up small in big games going back to his national team play, Phil and to a lessor extent Kobe was the best thing that happened to him. Also media did not make Phil poke Pau in his chest or shrink from Celts physical play. That happened you excuse that cuz u love Pau but skewer Kobe cuz you don't even a stat nerd is biased which further proves my case, thanks!

  12. #62
    Veteran Killakobe81's Avatar
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    Your ego is Kobeesque so cuz u say its so my answer is wrong?
    God complex much?

  13. #63
    Veteran Killakobe81's Avatar
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    Dirk was in his prime in 2005 I still take 2011 Dirk
    Kg was in his prime in 2004 I still take 2008 KG ...so what? No ring you get MVP for regular season greatness rings stamp your legacy

  14. #64
    Believe.
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    why are we still arguing kobe versus duncan using the rings argument?

    kobe: 2 rings as the 1st option (not disputing that), 3 rings as the second option
    duncan: 4 rings as the 1st option

    take away the 2 rings as the 1st option from both those guys and it's kobe's 3 as the beta versus duncan's 2 as the alpha.

    i've yet to run into any dumbass who would tell me that pippen's 6 as a beta > olajuwon's 2 as an alpha. so why are we using the rings argument to take kobe over duncan?

  15. #65
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Kobe is selfish and shoots too much, we know. Had either Shaq (04) or Pau (08) received more touches, the final outcomes of the series would be the same. The Pistons and Celtics were hungrier. They were not going to be denied.
    I can't prove either way, and Pau in 08 was a tossup, but if Shaq got more touches in 04, the Lakers had a very good chance.

  16. #66
    Veteran Killakobe81's Avatar
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    Kobe is selfish and shoots too much, we know. Had either Shaq (04) or Pau (08) received more touches, the final outcomes of the series would be the same. The Pistons and Celtics were hungrier. They were not going to be denied.
    This. Celts had hca and a long winstreak they maintained through the tougher West (on a road trip).
    Pistons were the perfect storm like the 2011 Mavs with Dirk shooting like Larry Bird. Pistons had Chauncey who was uber clutch that year and living off that rep since

  17. #67
    ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) AaronY's Avatar
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    Those assaults against my intelligence were just so devastating.

  18. #68
    Veteran Killakobe81's Avatar
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    So Amb please address Pau and his poor play in the playoffs and internationally prior to Lakers?
    Again I'm not knocking Pau helped us win 2 but superstar and leader?

  19. #69
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Thing that kills me you call him a superstar and a leader, but sans Kobe ...Pau (again a great player) had a penchant for coming up small in big games going back to his national team play, Phil and to a lessor extent Kobe was the best thing that happened to him. Also media did not make Phil poke Pau in his chest or shrink from Celts physical play. That happened you excuse that cuz u love Pau but skewer Kobe cuz you don't even a stat nerd is biased which further proves my case, thanks!
    I don't love Pau, I don't hate Kobe. I just think they were unfairly criticised. And by leader, I meant to say Pau was the leader in WS, not the leader leader of the team. However, he was the reason the Lakers were successful, there is no question about it. Does he shrink under pressure? Sure! But so what? He did lead the Lakers to two les.

    As for the superstar moniker, he led the Lakers to b2b, not sure what else you would have called him.

    Your ego is Kobeesque so cuz u say its so my answer is wrong?
    God complex much?
    See below.

    Dirk was in his prime in 2005 I still take 2011 Dirk
    Kg was in his prime in 2004 I still take 2008 KG ...so what? No ring you get MVP for regular season greatness rings stamp your legacy
    We all know 06 Kobe was a better player than 10 Kobe, you know it, and I know it. We all know that 05 Dirk > 11 Dirk. We all know 04 Garnett > 08 Garneet.

    And yet you said you will take the lesser version in each and every case not because they were better players, but because they had better teammates and coaches. Put 04 Garnett on the 08 Celtics team, and they would have been better. Put 06 Kobe on the 10 team, the Lakers would have been better. Put 05 Dirk on the 11 Mavs, and they would have been better, and yet you would willingly take the lesser player not because of a players' ability, but because of other factors such as coaching, teammates, system, and opposition.

    Thus, this is the wrong answer.

    It's like you are willing to take a Honda Civic over a Bugatti because Dale Earnhardt drove that Civic, while an idiot 6 year old drove the Bugatti.

  20. #70
    Believe. mindcrime's Avatar
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    I can't prove either way, and Pau in 08 was a tossup, but if Shaq got more touches in 04, the Lakers had a very good chance.
    In all honesty, I believe they had a good chance to possibly extend the series, not win it. The only chance the Lakers had to win that year was if Malone was anywhere near 100%. Malone played hobbled, the Pistons smelled blood.

  21. #71
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    This. Celts had hca and a long winstreak they maintained through the tougher West (on a road trip).
    Pistons were the perfect storm like the 2011 Mavs with Dirk shooting like Larry Bird. Pistons had Chauncey who was uber clutch that year and living off that rep since
    the Celts barely got by the Hawks and the Cavs (only got by the Hawks because Garnett was not suspended, which was BS to begin with).

  22. #72
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    I am sorry you are a numbers re . Good luck in getting the right number of nickels and dimes when you are giving change back to the customer at the cashier.
    amb with the no mercy for human life goods

  23. #73
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Those assaults against my intelligence were just so devastating.
    Then please stop posting to further exhibit them.

  24. #74
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    So Amb please address Pau and his poor play in the playoffs and internationally prior to Lakers?
    Again I'm not knocking Pau helped us win 2 but superstar and leader?
    Please cite specific examples.

    And while you are at it, please address Kobe's poor play during 05 to 07, his 6-24, and a list of other horrible playoff games.

  25. #75
    ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) AaronY's Avatar
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    Don't worry bro, I know my place now. I know this is basketball stuff is 2deep4me

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