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Glad you enjoyed it.
You were having quite the time trying to identify a straw man that didn't exist, so it might as well be rocket science.
Glad you enjoyed it.
"angry little boutons"
For the record, I'd say I'm pretty far to the right with some of my conservative views but I can't stand the Republican party. That's something Boutons and I have in common. His emotional/psychological instability and extremist views notwithstanding, I think we could be great pals. I really think he needs a friend, someone to confide in.
boutons and Jag in a rare, casual moment.
SA210, also cultivating boutons of late. crew is starting to gel.
This is precisely what I think of when I picture Boutons
lol boutons. Couldn't leave this thread fast enough.
Yeah, I don't buy this. We don't have anything resembling accurate numbers on the flow rate of illegals entering or leaving the US. Right now liberals only refer to the economy as being "terrible" when it supports whatever argument they're making.
"Jobs are being added and the unemployment % dropped again. Recovery is here!"
"Illegal immigration isn't an issue because the economy is in bad shape, and would-be illegal immigrants know they will have more opportunities if they stay in Mexico."
Even if what you say is true, which I don't believe for a second, it doesn't logically address the underlying problems with immigration. If the simple solution to the pseudo-problem of illegal immigration is a down economy, then hopefully people on both sides of the aisle can unite and collectively hope for a complete collapse.
So what are the flow rates for illegals entering/leaving the US? Be specific.
The economy has been terrible since the crash, all liberals (at least the ones I know who are educated people) claim is that the economy is better now than it was 4 years ago. We aren't losing 750,000 jobs a month like we were at the time, and global financial markets aren't on the verge of collapse either. If I was graduating with my exact same GPA, double major, and resume in 2009 as I'm graduating with now, I'd be unemployed and ready to move back in with mommeh as big accounting firms and investment banks were laying people off en mass and rescinding offers to graduates.
I never said it addresses the problem. All it means is that the problem currently isn't a significant issue right now. A more significant issue might be, idk, restoring America to the country it was when illegals actually were coming here, then we'd actually have a problem to deal with. I'm all for securing and closing the border (George Bush however wasn't in spite of Janet Napolitano, our Democratic Governor, repeatedly asking him to do so at the time) it's just not a high priority right now given other issues. Immigration is an issue I'm much further to the right on than other stuff.
Radar shows U.S. border security gaps
Operated from a Predator surveillance drone, the radar system has collected evidence that Border Patrol agents apprehended fewer than half of the foreign migrants and smugglers who had illegally crossed into a 150-square-mile stretch of southern Arizona.
The number of "gotaways," as the Border Patrol calls those who escape apprehension, is both more precise and higher than official estimates.
RELATED: Is the border secure?
According to internal reports, Border Patrol agents used the airborne radar to help find and detain 1,874 people in the Sonora Desert between Oct. 1 and Jan. 17. But the radar system spotted an additional 1,962 people in the same area who evaded arrest and disappeared into the United States.
In contrast, the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress, estimated in January that the Border Patrol had caught 64% of those who illegally crossed into the Tucson sector in 2011.
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/apr...radar-20130404
We don't know. That's the point. We have ample evidence, over many years, that illegals have been doing everything from constructing advanced tunnel systems to building ramps over border fencing in attempts to cross into the US. The economy has been in bad shape since 2007, but now all of the sudden I'm supposed to believe that Juan and Paco would rather live in Juarez than bus tables at Chili's?
These s aren't signing the national guest book when they cross the border. The only ways to track them are by making rough estimates from border sightings and by the number of arrests, which isn't very accurate because the number of arrests is a variable dependent upon the number of available agents (among other factors). Even still, despite what Napolitano claims, arrests on illegals in some border states are higher than they were at this time last year.
Illegal immigration isn't happening in a vacuum. It plays its own part in contributing to the economic issues we are currently having. If it didnt, I would agree with you. I agree that other issues need to be addressed as well, but that doesn't make the issue of Illegal Immigration insignificant, in the short-term or the long-term. Is it the largest issue affecting the economy? Absolutely not. I agree that economic issues need to be prioritized, but I don't contend that they can't be addressed concurrently.
If your argument is that it's a non-issue right now because more illegals are leaving than entering: There's nothing to indicate that. There's really nothing to indicate that anything at all has changed with regard to illegal traffic. Arrests are up - whatever that means. It could very well be getting worse, or it could have plateaued. There's nothing definitive either way. But to claim they're leaving en masse is nonsense.
It's a combination of our economy being in bad shape, laws like SB1070, and conditions in Latin American countries not being as bad as they used to be. Maybe Texas is a different story but the amount of illegals has unquestionably gone down in AZ.
The bad state of our economy is also magnified with illegals since unskilled, uneducated people are the ones getting hit hard. s like us with real technical skills and a useful degree can get a job that pays 50k+ with ease, Juan and Paco can't even make half of that. The lifestyle of someone in the US who makes $10 an hour isn't worth illegally pursuing.
Arrests across the country (iirc) have gone up since Obama took office. He's a war on drugs Nazi who's in bed with the prison industrial complex and loves being able to use illegals as a way to fill their prisons
I just don't think its effect on the economy is major. The reason why I side with conservatives on the issue is because the Mexicans who come here illegally do so because they're the afterbirths of Mexico who have nothing to offer other than cheap labor, while I still say any liberal who's OK with a Hispanic majority in this country is naive.
Given that congress and the president struggle over every little thing possible, two issues as controversial as immigration and the economy getting addressed concurrently is unfortunately a pipe dream
1) Lets hypothetically say we knew the number is going down. Would you, in that event, agree it's a minor problem right now?
2) My argument is that it is not a significant issue right now. Millions (we for sure know that much about the numbers
Who claimed they were leaving en mass?
If parts of that post made no sense sorry im pregaming for a day drinking party.
Once again, Repugs inflamming their "patriotic xenophobic racists" with the illegal immigrant fuel, but when the Repug controlled federal govt 2001-2006, they did NOTHING about the problem.
Why Businesses Love Illegal Immigration
Tod Kelly tells a story about a commercial nursery that hired his firm a few years ago to help get their workers compensation claims under control. After examining the nursery's operations, they made several recommendations about buying some new equipment and updating their training:
As we were wrapping up, as an aside, we noted that one of their larger ongoing back injury claimants was an illegal alien. We could close that claim out quickly, we told them, by letting the injured worker know that we would have light duty work for him were he able to legally work for the nursery. Since he wasn’t able, he could be terminated and all future indemnity costs would disappear. As soon as we explained this, the brothers began looking at each other, wide eyed and smiling. I cringed inwardly. I knew we had just made a mistake.
The updated equipment was never purchased, of course. And taking the time to train or stretch was seen as a waste of the company’s time and money. The claims continued to flood in, but now with each claim came notification from the employer that they had “reason to suspect” the claimant was an illegal worker, along with a request to send the light-duty letter so we could avoid making indemnity payments. Over the course of the next year the number of employee injuries increased 20%. But without indemnity costs their annual claims cost decreased 55% — and their insurance premiums went down as a result. They were able to terminate our services the next year with a glowing letter of recommendation.
Today they have moved from being one of a top-100 nursery to being a top-15, and by all accounts are going strong.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dru...al-immigration
Along with above and many other situations, businesses, many of them with Repug mgmt, also underpay or flatly don't pay even the very low wages, know the immigrants won't/can't go to any authorities.
I'll be over after work.
Is this the rebirth of the Axis of Vapidity?
I don't do hypotheticals. But hypothetically speaking, if I did do hypotheticals and the hypothetical trend was downward, then it would still be a significant issue, although not as pressing as a hypothetical situation involving an upward trend in Juans.
I did, so I could show Teysha what a real straw man looked like. His confusion was cluttering up too many threads around here.
You should be ashamed of yourself. Drinking during tax season.
Agribusiness Pushes To Lower Farm Workers’ Wages May Undermine Deal On Immigration Reform
Under current law, growers can legally bring foreign agricultural workers into the United States under the H-2A visa program after making an active effort to recruit U.S. workers in areas of expected labor supply. Employers must pay the higher of the state or federal minimum wage, a local prevailing wage rate or the adverse effect wage rate (AEWR), a Reagan era formula based on the USDA Farm Labor Survey of the average wages of nonsupervisory field and livestock workers. Growers who import labor are prohibited from paying their agricultural workers less than the average of the wages in their region and are exempt from paying Social Security and Medicare taxes on H-2A compensation. As a result, foreign workers cost growers an average of 11 percent less than American workers.
Lax enforcement of H-2A standards, however, has allowed growers to routinely cir vent protections, including advertising requirements and the hiring of illegal international recruiters to import even cheaper labor from Mexico. Workers on H-2A visas, advocates say, are abused by employers, cheated out of pay, and lack basic labor protections like occupational safety standards. Farm workers are paid some of the lowest wages in the country and are more likely to live in poverty and lack basic access to health care than salary employees.
Individuals involved in the negotiations say that growers are demanding wage standards that would amount to a significant reduction from the current AEWR formula, allowing employers to import cheap foreign labor while significantly undercutting American workers and lowering the earning potential of future streams of workers. Growers, whose opening offer would have paid workers just 10 percent above the federal minimum wage, have proposed numerous pay formulas, one person directly involved in the negotiations told ThinkProgress, but appear uninterested in compromising with labor groups. Kristi Boswell, Director of Congressional Relations at the American Farm Bureau — the organization representing growers — pushed back against that formulation, saying that while the discussions are “ongoing,” the growers’ proposals would “increase wages” for farmers and would better represent market conditions. The current AEWR average is $10.80, while grower proposals would pay workers less than $8.
http://thinkprogress.org/immigration...ration-reform/
ty work, ty pay, what's not to love if your an ag employer?
who please?
I can't unsee that, you filthy filthy man.
I think the previous iteration consisted of Parker and SA210...however, I'm unconvinced that neither is a troll account of the other.
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