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  1. #26
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    According to MJ himself...: "Kobe is the only player worthy of comparison to me" - MJ

    end of story
    this is the truth simply because Lebron doesn't play anything like MJ, while kobe was obsessed with playing and acting exactly like MJ

  2. #27
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    Jordan choked against the Magic in '95, lost in the first round multiple times, and it took him years to get past Boston and Detroit.... if the media in the '80s and early '90s was anything like today's era, he'd have been written off as a playoff choker long before 1991, tbh....

    Don't get me wrong, he's still the GOAT, but his career has grown into an outright myth.... people act like he never lost in the playoffs, tbh....
    Jordan's success in the 90s is the reason today's media is the way it is. everyone wants to compare people to MJ, instead of letting them build their own legacy. Prior to MJ, there was no player quite like him, to have such an incredible combination of size, athleticism, and skills. But over the past 20 years, the league has been littered with them, in VC, T-Mac, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Grant Hill, etc...

    The difference between all these guys and MJ, is their mental approach to the game. Kobe is the only one of the bunch who came close to having MJs approach, while Lebron has more of Magic Johnson's approach, which is arguably the best approach for a player to have. In fact, once MJ started adopting Magic's approach a bit more into his game, that is when the Bulls started winning les.

  3. #28
    Controversy Koolaid_Man's Avatar
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    this is the truth simply because Lebron doesn't play anything like MJ, while kobe was obsessed with playing and acting exactly like MJ
    it's true because game recognizes game...(kwame not-with-standing) MJ knows Kobe is a real just like him and that's why over the years he's never wavered or changed his mind on who he's pick a prime Kobe or prime Lebron and MJ always says Kobe...

    I have a new found respect for MJ because of it...especially since Kobe is the closet threat to his legacy with 5 rings...MJ has a lot of love for Mamba especially since they played against and befriended each other....

  4. #29
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    Actually, IIRC he wasn't talking about primes as opposed to careers when he said that quote. That's why he said it boiled down to the ring argument. More interesting is that he said it was a very tough call. So if Lebron only has 1, and Kobe has 5, yet it is still a very tough call, then obviously he sees more greatness in Lebron than you and other gots want to acknowledge. I'm pretty sure if Lebron gets more rings (which he will), he will adamantly say Lebron, as opposed to struggling to say Kobe like he did.

  5. #30
    Controversy Koolaid_Man's Avatar
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    Actually, IIRC he wasn't talking about primes as opposed to careers when he said that quote. That's why he said it boiled down to the ring argument. More interesting is that he said it was a very tough call. So if Lebron only has 1, and Kobe has 5, yet it is still a very tough call, then obviously he sees more greatness in Lebron than you and other gots want to acknowledge. I'm pretty sure if Lebron gets more rings (which he will), he will adamantly say Lebron, as opposed to struggling to say Kobe like he did.
    naaah more like he didn't want to hurt Lebron's already damaged ego...he's consistently said over the years (NOT ONCE, but on at least 3-4 separate occasions) he'd pick Kobe over Lebron...and now that Kobe is advanced in age basketball wise he didn't want to make it seem so obvious that he still prefers Kobe or was pandering so he went with the ring smack since he still prefers Kobe... Larry Bird said the same thing..he'd rather have Kobe as a teammate than Lebron...Magic always said Kobe up until he started pandering for ESPN and when Kobe called that ref a got Magic then switched to Lebron...but for my money I'd rather have MJ, Bird, Kareem, Dirk, and even ironically Wade in my corner than Barkley and Magic

  6. #31
    ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) AaronY's Avatar
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    Jordan choked against the Magic in '95, lost in the first round multiple times, and it took him years to get past Boston and Detroit.... if the media in the '80s and early '90s was anything like today's era, he'd have been written off as a playoff choker long before 1991, tbh....

    Don't get me wrong, he's still the GOAT, but his career has grown into an outright myth.... people act like he never lost in the playoffs, tbh....
    Jordan still put up good numbers...teams were never able to shut him down like in the 2007 Finals (22ppg on 34% (!) shooting) no matter how ty his teammates werehis team may have gotten blown out but he still went off a couple of times even in the Magic series Jordan still put up good numbers (31 ppg on 47.6 fg%) same thing with the series againts Boston and Detroit. He never had series as bad as Lebron's 2007 and 2011 NBA Finals. Plus Jordan lost in the first round to the 1986 and 1987 Boston Celtics; Lebron only made it out of the first round because he was playing the Wizards

    Jordan's worst playoff series might the 1993 ECF against the Knicks he had a ton of awful shooting games that series he still had a signature game though, in game 4...54 points, scored 26 consecutive from the middle of the third till like 3 minutes left in the game. Lebron had four bad to at best mediocre games in 2007 and was a bystander in game 5 2011. There were times when I literally forgot Lebron was on the court versus the Mavs he was so invisible something like that never happened with Jordan He just shrank from the moment in 2011, Jordan never did that

  7. #32
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    naaah more like he didn't want to hurt Lebron's already damaged ego...he's consistently said over the years (NOT ONCE, but on at least 3-4 separate occasions) he'd pick Kobe over Lebron...and now that Kobe is advanced in age basketball wise he didn't want to make it seem so obvious that he still prefers Kobe or was pandering so he went with the ring smack since he still prefers Kobe... Larry Bird said the same thing..he'd rather have Kobe as a teammate than Lebron...Magic always said Kobe up until he started pandering for ESPN and when Kobe called that ref a got Magic then switched to Lebron...but for my money I'd rather have MJ, Bird, Kareem, Dirk, and even ironically Wade in my corner than Barkley and Magic
    yawn

    scary thing is, Lebron is just starting to hit his prime.

    when is coming towards the end of his career, and people still say Kobe > Lebron, then you have a legit point. but by the fact that many people out there are adamant that Lebron > Kobe, and the number is growing rapidly, I'd say you should live it up right now, because your little golden age isnt going to last much longer. Kobe is about to be an afterthought, you know it, kobe knobslobbers know it, laker fans know it, and even Kobe knows it, which is why he is going to retire earlier than he has to, so that people see him go out before he is all washed up.

    lol kobe

  8. #33
    Board Man Comes Home Clipper Nation's Avatar
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    "Shrinking from the moment"... that's just lazy, ESPN-esque cliche "analysis," tbh.... I'll never understand it, considering he had already been to the Finals before that year and had been clutch in the playoffs numerous times, so I don't see which "moment" he'd be "shrinking from"...

    He had one bad series, it happens - and quite frankly, having a bad Finals is preferable to getting owned multiple times in the first round like MJ did... not to mention, they wouldn't have even made the Finals that year if not for LeBron's heroics against the Celtics and Bulls, tbh....

  9. #34
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    "Shrinking from the moment"... that's just lazy, ESPN-esque cliche "analysis," tbh.... I'll never understand it, considering he had already been to the Finals before that year and had been clutch in the playoffs numerous times, so I don't see which "moment" he'd be "shrinking from"...

    He had one bad series, it happens - and quite frankly, having a bad Finals is preferable to getting owned multiple times in the first round like MJ did... not to mention, they wouldn't have even made the Finals that year if not for LeBron's heroics against the Celtics and Bulls, tbh....

  10. #35
    ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) AaronY's Avatar
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    "Shrinking from the moment"... that's just lazy, ESPN-esque cliche "analysis," tbh.... I'll never understand it, considering he had already been to the Finals before that year and had been clutch in the playoffs numerous times, so I don't see which "moment" he'd be "shrinking from"...

    He had one bad series, it happens - and quite frankly, having a bad Finals is preferable to getting owned multiple times in the first round like MJ did... not to mention, they wouldn't have even made the Finals that year if not for LeBron's heroics against the Celtics and Bulls, tbh....
    He completely disappeared in game five he was deferring to Eddie House he looked scared.., guy I was watching the game with kept remarking that he forgot Lebron was in the game a couple of times that's how much of a non factor he was.

  11. #36
    Believe.
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    Jordan was 6-0 in Finals. Duncan is 4-0 in Finals. To me, these are the crucial stats. I think LeBron will end up being a Top 3 all-time player, perhaps Top 2. But by virtue of losing the Finals to that crappy Mavs squad, I don't see LeBron surpassing Jordan. And anybody who puts K. Bryant anywhere near an "all-time greatest" discussion is a total idiot. Bryant gravy-trained Shaquille to three les, then lost to a mediocre Detroit squad in the Finals because he was shooting too many bad shots. Bryant also lost to a Celtics squad in the Finals. In the Finals when they defeated Boston, Bryant went 6-24 in a Game 7 where he was bailed out by Pau Gasol. And Ron Artest had 20 points in that Game 7, so one could safely say that Bryant was bailed out by Ron Artest. Those words do not add up to "greatest ever."

  12. #37
    Veteran Killakobe81's Avatar
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    Lebron forfeited any potential for surpassing Jordan's career by choking in 2011, but his peak is on the same level, tbh..I'd take '91 Jordan over Lebron, but it's close..
    MJ does not have a similar choke on his resume andi doubt LBJ catches himm but to say not still possible is crazy needs at least 5 rings to make it close ...

  13. #38
    Veteran Killakobe81's Avatar
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    Jordan was 6-0 in Finals. Duncan is 4-0 in Finals. To me, these are the crucial stats. I think LeBron will end up being a Top 3 all-time player, perhaps Top 2. But by virtue of losing the Finals to that crappy Mavs squad, I don't see LeBron surpassing Jordan. And anybody who puts K. Bryant anywhere near an "all-time greatest" discussion is a total idiot. Bryant gravy-trained Shaquille to three les, then lost to a mediocre Detroit squad in the Finals because he was shooting too many bad shots. Bryant also lost to a Celtics squad in the Finals. In the Finals when they defeated Boston, Bryant went 6-24 in a Game 7 where he was bailed out by Pau Gasol. And Ron Artest had 20 points in that Game 7, so one could safely say that Bryant was bailed out by Ron Artest. Those words do not add up to "greatest ever."
    Though u go 2 far Kobe is not a Goat candidate ...agreed. but neither is Timmy

  14. #39
    Board Man Comes Home Clipper Nation's Avatar
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    He completely disappeared in game five he was deferring to Eddie House he looked scared.., guy I was watching the game with kept remarking that he forgot Lebron was in the game a couple of times that's how much of a non factor he was.
    "He looked scared".... what, are you a sports psychologist?

    Your ful, generic takes in this thread just further my case for statistical analysis over your "eye test," btw....

  15. #40
    Veteran Killakobe81's Avatar
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    Jordan choked against the Magic in '95, lost in the first round multiple times, and it took him years to get past Boston and Detroit.... if the media in the '80s and early '90s was anything like today's era, he'd have been written off as a playoff choker long before 1991, tbh....

    Don't get me wrong, he's still the GOAT, but his career has grown into an outright myth.... people act like he never lost in the playoffs, tbh....
    Hate to admit but CN brings up some great points, MJ is romanticized (bird and Magic also to alessor extent)
    MJ stll better than Bron but those acting like MJ never stank need to check their facts. I'll say this Jordan's best is greater than James's best and his worst not as shifty ...but LeBron is stringing together some MJ like seasons of elite play and may not need time off to do it, imagine if LeBron won 4 or 5 straight ..he would have strong case ...ggy

  16. #41
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    He completely disappeared in game five he was deferring to Eddie House he looked scared.., guy I was watching the game with kept remarking that he forgot Lebron was in the game a couple of times that's how much of a non factor he was.
    He had a triple double in game 5 if I recall.

    Again, although Lebron could have played better, people are forgetting the fact that the Mavs team defense was entirely focused on shutting him down, and making Wade beat them by going one-on-one with Marion, Stevenson, and Kidd over and over.

    Every time he would put the ball on the floor, he would be swarmed with 2-3 defenders immediately. Not much you can do about that other than pass to your teammates, and hope they can create with all the extra space they have. Unfortunately for them, they weren't able to. Wade had a nice series, but everyone else was very streaky, to the point that the Mavs could continue getting away with the excessive amount of attention they paid Lebron. Had Bosh and others stepped up and been more of a threat offensively, Lebron probably ends up getting less defensive attention, has a better series, and they probably beat Dallas.

    In a lot of ways, it was reminiscient of the Mavs/GS series in 07, where GS was entirely focused on shutting Dirk down, and making everyone else beat them. Unfortunately for the Mavs, Terry, Stackhouse, and Howard proved that they could not consistently score in one-on-one situations against their superior athletes. Had they shown an ability to score more efficiently, Dirk would have gotten more space to work with and likely had a better series, probably beating GS.

    Teams couldn't do that to MJ during his championship run, because he had other guys who would consistently make buckets if you left them open and unattended, like Scottie, Kukoc, Paxson, Armstrong, Kerr, Grant, Cartwright, and Longley. However, people forget some of the series he had earlier in his career where defense were able to do that, because his teammates weren't able to step up like he needed them to, and he had several less than stellar performances himself, especially against the Pistons in 3 straight years where while he scored a lot of points, they came incredibly inefficiently as his %'s were noticeably lower than his usual average, in fact quite bad for the era he was playing in, and he was putting up those bad %'s with a LOT of shot attempts (usually 22-27, not including FTAs). Those poor series of his just get overlooked because of that ridiculous run of 6 championships. Point is, you need consistent help and performance from your teammates in order to win championships, especially when facing elite defenses in the playoffs.

  17. #42
    Veteran Killakobe81's Avatar
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    "He looked scared".... what, are you a sports psychologist?

    Your ful, generic takes in this thread just further my case for statistical analysis over your "eye test," btw....
    Come on CN I back your insight earlier but if James is a great as we both say we can't excuse how he finished those Finals that was more like Kobe in 2008 than MJ in 92

  18. #43
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    Hate to admit but CN brings up some great points, MJ is romanticized (bird and Magic also to alessor extent)
    MJ stll better than Bron but those acting like MJ never stank need to check their facts. I'll say this Jordan's best is greater than James's best and his worst not as shifty ...but LeBron is stringing together some MJ like seasons of elite play and may not need time off to do it, imagine if LeBron won 4 or 5 straight ..he would have strong case ...ggy
    This.

    MJ was awesome, and the best ever, but people who think he was flawless need to check their facts first. He had PLENTY of massive failures, and had flaws in his game/skillset.

  19. #44
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    This.

    MJ was awesome, and the best ever, but people who think he was flawless need to check their facts first. He had PLENTY of massive failures, and had flaws in his game/skillset.
    such as

  20. #45
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    This.

    MJ was awesome, and the best ever, but people who think he was flawless need to check their facts first. He had PLENTY of massive failures, and had flaws in his game/skillset.

  21. #46
    Veteran Killakobe81's Avatar
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    He had a triple double in game 5 if I recall.

    Again, although Lebron could have played better, people are forgetting the fact that the Mavs team defense was entirely focused on shutting him down, and making Wade beat them by going one-on-one with Marion, Stevenson, and Kidd over and over.

    Every time he would put the ball on the floor, he would be swarmed with 2-3 defenders immediately. Not much you can do about that other than pass to your teammates, and hope they can create with all the extra space they have. Unfortunately for them, they weren't able to. Wade had a nice series, but everyone else was very streaky, to the point that the Mavs could continue getting away with the excessive amount of attention they paid Lebron. Had Bosh and others stepped up and been more of a threat offensively, Lebron probably ends up getting less defensive attention, has a better series, and they probably beat Dallas.

    In a lot of ways, it was reminiscient of the Mavs/GS series in 07, where GS was entirely focused on shutting Dirk down, and making everyone else beat them. Unfortunately for the Mavs, Terry, Stackhouse, and Howard proved that they could not consistently score in one-on-one situations against their superior athletes. Had they shown an ability to score more efficiently, Dirk would have gotten more space to work with and likely had a better series, probably beating GS.

    Teams couldn't do that to MJ, because he had other guys who would consistently make buckets if you left them open and unattended, like Scottie, Kukoc, Paxson, Armstrong, Kerr, Grant, Cartwright, and Longley. However, people forget some of the series he had earlier in his career where defense were able to do that, because his teammates weren't able to step up like he needed them to, and he had several less than stellar performances himself, especially against the Pistons in 3 straight years where while he scored a lot of points, they came incredibly inefficiently as his %'s were noticeably lower than his usual average, in fact quite bad for the era he was playing in, and he was putting up those bad %'s with a LOT of shot attempts (usually 22-27, not including FTAs). Those poor series of his just get overlooked because of that ridiculous run of 6 championships. Point is, you need consistent help and performance from your teammates in order to win championships, especially when facing elite defenses in the playoffs.
    Great stuff I also don't get why people acting like Mavs were a e team, with Dirk healthy there record that year projects even higher. And they got career years from every key starter except Marion and Kidd who were never better on defense and a Birdesque shooting year from Dirk ...

    But I was at a game at the AAC were Marion threw a hook/flip shot over James called him a and James did not respond ...would tha happen to MJ? Would that even happen again to LeBron? He failed ...at least now he is making up for it

  22. #47
    Board Man Comes Home Clipper Nation's Avatar
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    Come on CN I back your insight earlier but if James is a great as we both say we can't excuse how he finished those Finals that was more like Kobe in 2008 than MJ in 92
    I did say he had a bad series, but that had a lot to do with the Mavs' defense, tbh.... I don't think anyone was beating the Mavs that year anyway...

  23. #48
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    He was always a streaky long-distance shooter (in fact horrible early in his career), he had issues with trusting teammates which ended up costing the team often, even in the playoffs at times. His ball handling could have been better as well. He generally was too quick for his opponents, but when matched up with a elite athlete, he struggled a bit more, and could get ripped fairly easily with well timed team defense.

    I'm not saying he has a ton of flaws, but he wasn't without weaknesses either. Working on those flaws and keeping them to a minimum is what helped him grow to a point of winning championships, but none of those things were ever really a strength of his at any time.

  24. #49
    Veteran Killakobe81's Avatar
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    Bosh played well vs Mavs in 2011 wade and LeBron were up and down as were the role players

  25. #50
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    Great stuff I also don't get why people acting like Mavs were a e team, with Dirk healthy there record that year projects even higher. And they got career years from every key starter except Marion and Kidd who were never better on defense and a Birdesque shooting year from Dirk ...
    Yep, that was a lethal team. With Dirk and Caron not having their major injuries, the Mavs win probably well over 60 games. They were off to a great start, and it all went to when those guys got hurt, and was even worse when Carlisle was trying to incorporate Roddy in and messinge the rotation up. Starting Stevenson was working great, I never quite understood why they tried starting Roddy. I feel that cost them a couple games too. The fact that they still won 57 games despite so much crap happening through their season, was quite impressive.

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