NBA: If there's one thing Spursfan and Mavsfan can agree on...

[monosylab1k]

The top two PF GOAT's lost to an 8 seed

[FkLA]

His numbers didn't take a huge dip. Holy you're dumb. And yeah, there's a correlation. If he can't lead his admittedly crappy supporting cast to something better than a 30 win season, he clearly isn't that good. , even Kobe took Smush Parker to the playoffs, and never sucked as bad as ing 32-50

You really are one stupid gook arent you.

Of course his numbers didnt dip, idiot. That was my point--KG didnt magically start sucking and his omission had alot more to do with the poor team record than his individual performance not being on par with other years. Maybe I should start using blue font for your dumbass tbh. For your other point, maybe its the other way around...since he performed at the same high level he did previous years. Maybe the fact that by far Wally and Ricky Davis were his best teammates had more to do with it.

MVP is a regular season award so that's irrelevant to the playoffs. And a few all time greats have choked like that in the playoffs, including one Timothy Cornelius Decimus Maximus Duncan.

When has Timothy choked like that? Especially the same year he won an MVP award. Actually when has anyone choked that bad the same year they won an MVP ?

[monosylab1k]

You really are one stupid gook arent you.

Of course his numbers didnt dip, idiot. That was my point--KG didnt magically start sucking and his omission had alot more to do with the poor team record than his individual performance not being on par with other years. Maybe I should start using blue font for your dumbass tbh. For your other point, maybe its the other way around...since he performed at the same high level he did previous years. Maybe the fact that by far Wally and Ricky Davis were his best teammates had more to do with it.



When has Timothy choked like that? Especially the same year he won an MVP award. Actually when has anyone choked that bad the same year they won an MVP ?

MVP is a regular season award, your point is irrelevant. Make up a hypothetical where MVP awards have anything to do with the playoffs tbh.

[FkLA]

When did I say the MVP award took the playoffs into account you dumb gook ?

lol making up to draw attention away from your dumb ass

[monosylab1k]

When did I say the MVP award took the playoffs into account you dumb gook ?

lol making up to draw attention away from your dumb ass

You're trying to link the two. There's nothing to link. Maybe if you can hypothetically smuggle one into the other and drop an anchor baby then they will be linked. But so far, nope.

[nowhereman523]

considering a player an all-time great when he 'led' a team to 30 wins and missed all-nba third team in his prime.

when 3 years of your prime were spent not making the playoffs, you don't have much of an argument to be top 5 anything. He's such a good offensive player he didn't even lead his team in shots. He's such a good defensive player that his counterpart crushed him in the playoffs.

[TDfan2007]

KG vs. Dirk is arguable. Let's break it down:

Scoring: Dirk. Dirk is/was basically unguardable. Can take you off the dribble, shoot over the top, possible the best faceup game for any big in NBA history. He even learned to start banging in the post once Avery got ahold of him. KG was no slouch as a scorer either, but his lack of a go-to move and tendency to defer/wilt in the 4th quarters of big games costs him major points here. His mid-range game was amazing, could take guys off the dribble, and had a sweet turnaround, but his post game was never as refined as it could have been, and too often he settled for those fadeaway jumpers.

Passing: KG. Garnett is one of the best passing bigs ever. His assist numbers in his prime were gaudy, especially when you consider his less-than-stellar supporting cast. Dirk is an underrated passer, and he eventually became quite adept at kicking it out of a double team, but KG edges him in this category.

Rebounding: KG. Not that close. Not much to argue here either. Neither player is a particularly incredible rebounder, technically speaking, but KG's prime numbers speak for themselves. Dirk always seemed to step up his rebounding in the playoffs, but I think people here forget that KG led the league in rebounding for a few years in his prime

Defense: KG. No explanation necessary. Anyone with eyes who watched NBA basketball for the last 15 or so years should know this.

Intangibles/leadership Wash. Although he behaves like a madman on the court, KG is a fantastic leader who has always been highly revered by his teammates. While Dirk is not quite the leader KG is, he's definitely the guy you want with the ball with the game on the line. Dirk always seems to make the right play in the 4th quarter, and aside from one playoff series, he's shown time and time again that he is willing and able to step up his game and deliver when his team needs it most.

Overall: Both guys have incomplete games to a certain extent, and both were able to win a le by having a player alongside them who covered up their flaws (Tyson to cover Dirk's ass on defense; Pierce and Allen to bail KG out in 4th quarters). KG is the more complete player, but I'm personally going to give the nod to Dirk simply because his type of offensive ability at that size is one in a million. With Dirk all you need is a defensive big next to him and you're instantly a playoff team, but KG requires a go-to scorer on his team, and those guys are much harder to come by. I actually consider KG more like a Pippen type.

[Phillip]

No dumbass, the gap in offense between a healthy Tmac (since Im assuming thats what youre referring to, and not an entire career Tmac since his numbers dropped drastically after the back problems) and Artest is alot bigger than Dirk and KG. Marion is probably even more re ed. Was Marion capable of creating his own shot and is he considered one of the best defenders of all-time? Cause both of those apply to KG you stupid dip .

thinking KG was ever capable of creating his own shot when it counts

[Phillip]

KG vs. Dirk is arguable. Let's break it down:

Scoring: Dirk. Dirk is/was basically unguardable. Can take you off the dribble, shoot over the top, possible the best faceup game for any big in NBA history. He even learned to start banging in the post once Avery got ahold of him. KG was no slouch as a scorer either, but his lack of a go-to move and tendency to defer/wilt in the 4th quarters of big games costs him major points here. His mid-range game was amazing, could take guys off the dribble, and had a sweet turnaround, but his post game was never as refined as it could have been, and too often he settled for those fadeaway jumpers.

Passing: KG. Garnett is one of the best passing bigs ever. His assist numbers in his prime were gaudy, especially when you consider his less-than-stellar supporting cast. Dirk is an underrated passer, and he eventually became quite adept at kicking it out of a double team, but KG edges him in this category.

Rebounding: KG. Not that close. Not much to argue here either. Neither player is a particularly incredible rebounder, technically speaking, but KG's prime numbers speak for themselves. Dirk always seemed to step up his rebounding in the playoffs, but I think people here forget that KG led the league in rebounding for a few years in his prime

Defense: KG. No explanation necessary. Anyone with eyes who watched NBA basketball for the last 15 or so years should know this.

Intangibles/leadership Wash. Although he behaves like a madman on the court, KG is a fantastic leader who has always been highly revered by his teammates. While Dirk is not quite the leader KG is, he's definitely the guy you want with the ball with the game on the line. Dirk always seems to make the right play in the 4th quarter, and aside from one playoff series, he's shown time and time again that he is willing and able to step up his game and deliver when his team needs it most.

Overall: Both guys have incomplete games to a certain extent, and both were able to win a le by having a player alongside them who covered up their flaws (Tyson to cover Dirk's ass on defense; Pierce and Allen to bail KG out in 4th quarters). KG is the more complete player, but I'm personally going to give the nod to Dirk simply because his type of offensive ability at that size is one in a million. With Dirk all you need is a defensive big next to him and you're instantly a playoff team, but KG requires a go-to scorer on his team, and those guys are much harder to come by. I actually consider KG more like a Pippen type.

If I wrote a writeup in this style, I think we would have said the same thing on all accounts.

The reason Dirk gets the edge is his rare ability to put teams on his back offensively, especially in the clutch. It's much easier to build around a guy like that, than a guy like KG. You can find defensive stoppers and rebounders littered throughout the league. But there are usually only 3-4 players in the league at any given time that can put a team on their back offensively and lead their team to a championship.

[DAF86]

Mavfans are some awful ing homer otts with horrible basketball takes.

[FkLA]

You're trying to link the two. There's nothing to link. Maybe if you can hypothetically smuggle one into the other and drop an anchor baby then they will be linked. But so far, nope.

I never said one is related to the other. Youre just a stupid gook tbh.

considering a player an all-time great when he 'led' a team to 30 wins and missed all-nba third team in his prime.

lol thinking repeating the same over and over makes that a valid argument

The funniest thing is prior to 2011, mavfan defended Dirk to death about he hadnt won because his casts sucked...Terry wasnt capable of being a #2, etc. He wins one and now all of a sudden they wanna ignore supporting casts. Or if we bring up 2008 theyre quick to bring up the fact that KG had Pierce and Allen, no mention of his casts during his Minny days though. Amazing what homerism can do to people tbh.

He's such a good offensive player he didn't even lead his team in shots. He's such a good defensive player that his counterpart crushed him in the playoffs.

And Dirk called Jet his closer and routinely let him take the big shots. Are you saying because Dirk outplayed him in two playoff games in 2002, KG isnt one of the best defenders of all-time?

[Fergie The Florists]

there ain't no doubt about it tbh. it's solid truth like "water is wet" or "every is evil & re ed", but not all spurs fans will agree on it imho. they don't believe duncan would've achieved more successes w/ dirk being the #2 banana in place of manu because they think manu > dirk.

D only thing wet is yo mommas smelly pussy .

[FkLA]

With Dirk all you need is a defensive big next to him and you're instantly a playoff team, but KG requires a go-to scorer on his team, and those guys are much harder to come by.

This is dishonest. Its alot harder than that. Chandler was arguably the best defensive big that year, so it takes alot more than just any defensive big...in 2011 probably only Dwight couldve matched Chandlers impact. Having other capable defenders around him probably didnt hurt either, since he was the 5th best defender in that starting line-up. Terry played his ass off as a #2 and the shooters got hot. Not to mention The King choking.

Literally everything that needed to go right for the Mavs went right. The likelihood of another run like that even with an elite defensive big still there arent that high. Not because of Dirk but because shooters dont catch lightning in a bottle that easily and The King wasnt going to keep choking forever.

I actually consider KG more like a Pippen type.

KG was the best player in 2008, man. I agree that he isnt as reliable as Dirk in the clutch and that Pierce assumed that role but alot of big man in general have that...Manu closed alot of games out for Timmy. Kobe did the same for Shaq. Doesnt mean the three big men werent the alphas of their respective teams.

[DAF86]

This is dishonest. Its alot harder than that. Chandler was arguably the best defensive big that year, so it takes alot more than just any defensive big...in 2011 probably only Dwight couldve matched Chandlers impact. Having other capable defenders around him probably didnt hurt either, since he was the 5th best defender in that starting line-up. Terry played his ass off as a #2 and the shooters got hot. Not to mention The King choking.

Literally everything that needed to go right for the Mavs went right. The likelihood of another run like that even with an elite defensive big still there arent that high. Not because of Dirk but because shooters dont catch lightning in a bottle that easily and The King wasnt going to keep choking forever.

Not to mention a career year from Nowitzki.

[FkLA]

Yep, would definitely be hard for him to repeat that playoff run tbh.

[Thread]

Yep, would definitely be hard for him to repeat that playoff run tbh.

Especially when Chandler can't carry him being in NYC & all.

[Jacob1983]

If they had been on the same team, they would have won 4 or 5 championships in row minimum.

[Thread]

If they had been on the same team, they would have won 4 or 5 championships in row minimum.

[If] [would have]

Crawl, mother er. Crawl!!!

[nowhereman523]

lol thinking repeating the same over and over makes that a valid argument

The funniest thing is prior to 2011, mavfan defended Dirk to death about he hadnt won because his casts sucked...Terry wasnt capable of being a #2, etc. He wins one and now all of a sudden they wanna ignore supporting casts. Or if we bring up 2008 theyre quick to bring up the fact that KG had Pierce and Allen, no mention of his casts during his Minny days though. Amazing what homerism can do to people tbh.

And Dirk called Jet his closer and routinely let him take the big shots. Are you saying because Dirk outplayed him in two playoff games in 2002, KG isnt one of the best defenders of all-time?

Amazing how you just can't address the simple point. Even an injured & out of shape Dirk made all-nba third team last year (oh, a great game winning layup against Garnett too that year btw), and Kobe made all-nba third team with 34 wins (and missing 16 games). Duncan, Dirk, Barkley, Malone - every year of their prime they were at least relevant. If a player can't even be relevant for three years of your prime, the onus has to fall on the player at some point. Can you name any other NBA player with such a sustained period of immateriality?

The difference is that Dirk didn't have the cast to win it all (not a single other non-injury all-star since before Nash left) - a task that almost always requires a ton of help. It's not that KG didn't have enough help to win a championship, it's that he couldn't even take the players around him into the playoffs once over a three year stretch.

[Phillip]

not even worth the time anymore

fkla has so many double standards, its hilarious

lets just go with facts, since he is too stupid to understand anything else

dirk put the mavs on his back, and won a championship, and dominated everyone in the process

kg never did that and never even came close to doing anything like that

dirk > kg

hate and whine and all you want, but these are facts, and nothing you say or do can ever change that.

[Thread]

dirk put the mavs on his back, and won a championship, and dominated everyone in the process

But, he was sitting on Chandler's shoulders when everybody else got on his back. It was a human totem pole, but, the guy on the bottom was definitely ace of spades in pigment.

[Phillip]

oh and fwiw, this years Mavs team and the 06-07 T-Wolves team is actually more comparable than gots like FKLA want to admit


Chris Kaman = Marcus Blount
Vince Carter = Ricky Davis
Darren Collison = Randy Foye
Elton Brand = Craig Smith
Mike James (old) << Mike James (young)
Shawn Marion >> Trenton Hassell
Roddy Beaubois < Troy Hudson

The main difference between the two teams is the Mavs having OJ Mayo. But then again, they didn't have Dirk for half the year either.

I don't deny that this Mavs supporting cast is generally better, but not by nearly as big of a margin as some are saying. KG only getting 32 wins with that squad was absolutely pathetic on his part, especially for a superstar in his prime. And no major injuries to the team either.

[Phillip]

But, he was sitting on Chandler's shoulders when everybody else got on his back. It was a human totem pole, but, the guy on the bottom was definitely ace of spades in pigment.

lol swept

[Thread]

lol swept

You've got room.

[Phillip]

You've got room.

Bend over.

I'll show ya room.