Mavs: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?

[monosylab1k]

reported to kori and timvpimp for using that term in user le tbh

Shemale porn sent to your pm box. Oh wait you would actually enjoy getting that.

[FkLA]

Youre a great smack talker tbh. How do you do it ?

[Latarian Milton]

estoy estudiando español en un nivel muy prematuro, pero quiero hacer un discusión en español con tu fkla, mi hermano. ¿Qué llamo de AIM tiene Usted?

[ambchang]

Varejao and Camby replicating Chandler is laughable. Sheed on his own and not as a tandem with Big Ben is laughable too.

Regardless of that though, thats far from all Dirk needs to win a le. He would require very solid defenders starting alongside him as well, since every other starter on that team was a better defender than Dirk. Shooters to catch lightning in a bottle and shoot lights out almost every game. The King to continue choking forever. And himself to have ridiculously efficient shooting percentages. Its not as simple as giving him an anchor.

Everybody needs a team around them to win a championship. Even Jordan needed a Pippen and the right guys around him (shooting "PG"s who plays off ball, defensive centers to contain the likes of Ewing, shooting centers to open up the middle, strong rebounders, a coach to massage his ego), so I am not sure what you are trying to get at.

As for Varajao and Camby, we can disagree, but both are decent defensive players who can take care of the middle, especially sideshow bob.

[Phillip]

of course I think they could, thats why I listed them, but I think they are just as coveted / highly paid as a scorer is. I think hibbert and gasol should continue to improve defensively, but right now neither uses their size as well as chandler does on D.

So if you had a chance to build your team around a prime Paul Pierce, or build around a prime Tyson Chandler, who do you build around?

[Thread]

^Chandler. Pierce tries to "cut in line" & cheat the system. Chandler will work it out in his head and then proceed.

Chandler is a winner in a winner's circle.
Pierce is a loser in a winner's circle. It happens that way sometimes.

[Kidd K]

Since when is all the way up to Dirk #2?

Do Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, and Kevin Garnett not exist in this dimension or something?

Mavs suck though. I predicted they wouldn't make the playoffs before the season started. It was fairly obvious their team wasn't strong enough to get there, coupled with Dirk being injured early on which expectedly started them off in a hole.

They're not quite as bad as their record indicates, but they're not really much better anyway, and Dirk missing that time early hurt their positioning a lot.

[ambchang]

the point of listing the roster cost, is that the supposedly "easier" to accomodate dirk needed a more expensive roster than the "difficult" kg. The only reason it was difficult to surround kg with talent, was his massive salary. its his own damn fault, but it has nothing to do with his play. you cant discount how much of his career suffered from being in a ty organization, as dirk fans are finding out these last two seasons.

While it’s a decent approach, it is often times misleading.
1) You are assuming higher salaries means tougher skills to duplicate, but there are always dumbass GMs out there , especially in the mid to late 00’s, that would give crazy dollars to mediocre talent
2) Looking at total salary is equivalent. Is it easier to sign 1 $15M player and 12 $2M players for a total salary of $39M, or is it easier to sign 13 $3M players for a total of $39M? I would argue the later is easier, because there are way more $3M guys than that one $15M guy.

both you and philip are only considering "proven, championship caliber" offensive players, then arguing that defensive players are easily replaceable. I just dont think its that easy.

I am not assuming that, I would take, say a guy like Durant, in place of Pierce, or like my earlier post alluded to, Harden, or even some guy like a pre-injury Brandon Roy. But those are crafty scorers, not volume scores. Pierce belongs to the first group, and those guys are hard to come by.

are you telling me that someone like ibaka or sanders or noah or chandler himself could have replaced kg on the 08 celtics and voila! they dominate and win a ship just like that? I dont think any of them combines KG's entire defensive skillset, tenacity, basketball iq, not to mention efficient scoring well beyond any of the players mentioned. Lets be clear, he's childish, a pussy and an asshole, but he brings quite a lot to the table.

No, I am saying Noah can replace Chandler. Haven’t thought about Ibaka or Sanders, but I haven’t seen Sanders enough to have an opinion, and I don’t think Ibaka can ever man a championship defense, he needs a lot more help around him.

Dirk also has a unique skillset, but IMO the mismatches he creates on offense are offset by his defensive limitations, whereas with KG his versatility means he is always contributing.

I seem to remember you making a thread recently comparing advanced stats from championship runs...

KG 08:

Ortg 112 Drtg 99, net= 13 OWS 2.1 DWS 2.0 WS 4.1 WS/48 .199

Dirk in 11:
Ortg 115 Drtg 105, net = 10 OWS 2.7 DWS 0.9 WS 3.6 WS/48 .21

That tells me KG was way more important to the 08 celtics than dirk to the 11 mavs; the only thing dirk has there is better efficiency, but lower impact. do you agree?

I was surprised by the stats myself, and I am not saying that Dirk is better than KG. What I am saying is that it is easier to build a championship team around Dirk than it is to do so with KG because of what they bring to the table.

I also don’t think Dirk is that terrible on defense. His 105 Drtg is average, but not terrible, and as long as you can find someone like Chandler beside him, the frontline is set. For KG, you have to have a guy like Pierce, and my opinion is that it is easier to get a guy like Chandler than to get a guy like Pierce.

EDIT: One more thing, you are talking about one championship winning season. Over his career, Dirk as a WS/48 of 0.209, Garnett stands at 0.188.

Also, Garnett, though he had a higher WS season at 18.3, has only one other season of 16+ WS. Nowitzki has three of those. Nowitzki also has 11 seasons with 10+ WS, while Garnett had "only" 9.

[Trill Clinton]

I will not allow this bodybuilding.com slander!!! the site has a lot of valuable information and they have good prices on supplements.

[FkLA]

Everybody needs a team around them to win a championship. Even Jordan needed a Pippen and the right guys around him (shooting "PG"s who plays off ball, defensive centers to contain the likes of Ewing, shooting centers to open up the middle, strong rebounders, a coach to massage his ego), so I am not sure what you are trying to get at.

As for Varajao and Camby, we can disagree, but both are decent defensive players who can take care of the middle, especially sideshow bob.

Well considering the fact that MJ won 6 in a row when he wasnt playing baseball, Id say thats a terrible comparison. Even if Chandler stayed the likelihood of winning another le much less five more wouldve been pretty low. Especially since it didnt just require ridiculously efficient play Dirk and co. but also the King to choke.

Theyre both better than decent, theyre very good defensive players. I just think youre underselling just how elite Chandler is defensively though.

[Phillip]

Well considering the fact that MJ won 6 in a row when he wasnt playing baseball, Id say thats a terrible comparison. Even if Chandler stayed the likelihood of winning another le much less five more wouldve been pretty low. Especially since it didnt just require ridiculously efficient play Dirk and co. but also the King to choke.

Theyre both better than decent, theyre very good defensive players. I just think youre underselling just how elite Chandler is defensively though.

dirk rang, and nothing you do or say can take that away from him, as much as you try

got

[FkLA]

dirk rang, and nothing you do or say can take that away from him, as much as you try

got

He did tbh. Hes also a HOF and Top 5 PF all-time. Doesnt mean hes better than KG or the 2nd PFGOAT you dumb homer.

[Phillip]

He did tbh. Hes also a HOF and Top 5 PF all-time. Doesnt mean hes better than KG or the 2nd PFGOAT you dumb homer.

dirk = #1 man on a championship team

kg = 2a/2b man on a championship team

dirk > kg

fact

[Fergie The Florists]

Since when is all the way up to Dirk #2?

Do Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, and Kevin Garnett not exist in this dimension or something?

Mavs suck though. I predicted they wouldn't make the playoffs before the season started. It was fairly obvious their team wasn't strong enough to get there, coupled with Dirk being injured early on which expectedly started them off in a hole.

They're not quite as bad as their record indicates, but they're not really much better anyway, and Dirk missing that time early hurt their positioning a lot.

[FkLA]

dirk = #1 man on a championship team

kg = 2a/2b man on a championship team

dirk > kg

fact

According to homers like you tbh. Most people would disagree as I already proved.

[Phillip]

According to homers like you tbh. Most people would disagree as I already proved.

we have yet to see any legit proof of that

lol utsa flunkout

lol got

[FkLA]

lol 'legit'
lol unwilling to look at polls
lol unwilling to do a quick google search of your own
lol mad bc people dont rate dirk as high as homer mavfans
lol roddy take
lol stupid gook brothers

[Phillip]

lol 'legit'
lol unwilling to look at polls
lol unwilling to do a quick google search of your own
lol mad bc people dont rate dirk as high as homer mavfans
lol roddy take
lol stupid gook brothers

lol polls
lol putting stock in the same polls that frequently say wilt>mj
lol mad bc dirk is factually superior to kg
lol diaw take
lol flunkout

[FkLA]

lol making up
lol only accepting opinions that favor dirk
lol factually
lol diaw take not as bad as roddy take
lol kawhi leonard=shane battier
lol dirk was 2nd PFGOAT even before '11
lol stupid, homerish gook

[AaronY]

I go on bb.com mainly just for the misc section it provides the lulz

Troof bomb

[Riddler]

Dirk better than KG simply because of scoring.

[Phillip]

lol making up
lol only accepting opinions that favor dirk
lol factually
lol diaw take not as bad as roddy take
lol kawhi leonard=shane battier
lol dirk was 2nd PFGOAT even before '11
lol stupid, homerish gook

lol truth bombs
lol only accepting opinions that dismiss dirk
lol unable to accept facts
lol diaw take worse than roddy take
lol kawhi leonard = scottie pippen
lol kg > dirk even before 11
lol stupid, homerish flunkout

[FkLA]

^dunning-kruger effect tbh

reminds me of benefactor

[Phillip]

^dunning-kruger effect tbh

reminds me of benefactor

dirk > kg

fact

[FkLA]

Youre too stupid to realize youre stupid tbh. Ill just stop wasting my time.