NBA: sons this is a wonderful night for legit basketball fans around the world!

[kamikazi_player]

Dude that is some nasty ass . Quit taking pics of Bosh e's wife.

Not an ass fan?

I would like to see her face though.

[Splits]

Not an ass fan?

I would like to see her face though.

I'm a huge ass fan, just not a fan of huge ass like that nasty ****, bleeehhhh that nasty.

[midnightpulp]

Who closed quarters/games for the Lakers during their 3peat: Shaq or Kobe? How about in 2009 or 2010: Pau or Kobe? Exactly son.

I never said Kobe always shot a high percentage - especially due to all of the bailout shots he's been forced to take when his teammates were afraid to do so - with the clock/game winding down. This goes back even to his rookie year in the playoffs v. Utah.

Kobe's blessing and his curse is his confidence. He has gone 6-24 on shots we all know he can make. He believes the next one is dropping for him. That's what made him a HOFer. He's not afraid of the moment. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Kobe is the best difficult shot maker the league has ever seen. He proved it once again with those two clutch 4th qtr threes and two clutch FTs before he finally went down with a ruptured Achilles.

Kobe being the "closer" during the Shaq-era is a total myth fabricated by Kobe suckers such as yourself for the purpose of downplaying Shaq's overall impact to prop up Kobe's career.

In the 2000 Finals, Kobe played 9 minutes in game 2 and missed game 3, and the Lakers won both games by 7 and 9 points respectively. And in the closeout game 6, Kirby shot 8-27 (the previous game, Kirb shot 4-20), while Shaq dropped 41 and 12 on 60% shooting. Yeah, 1A/1B indeed. But go ahead and tell me about Kobe's game 4 performance. I don't think I've heard it about it enough.

Flash forward to the '01, which is the playoff run you Kobe homers constantly bring up as evidence that he was just as important as Shaq. Here was one of the rare games in which the Lakers didn't blow their opponent out and wound winning by 1 possession. http://www.basketball-reference.com/...060LAL.html#q4

In that 4th quarter, Kobe was 0-2 for 4 points, which were the result of intentional foul freethrows. On the other hand, Shaq had 15 points in the 4th, and was pretty much forcefed the ball throughout the entire quarter.

Those are just a few examples, but trust me, I have many more that completely disprove the myth Kobe was the "closer" for the 3 peat Lakers.

[Thread]

Not an ass fan?

I would like to see her face though.

I'd have her sit on mine.

[Katherine Robinson]

My wife beating husband shows more class than you all.

Come, Dale; I'll make you a patty melt.

[midnightpulp]

And the ultimate nail in the coffin to the idea that the 3 peat Lakers didn't trust Shaq in crunch and it was Kobe who primarily closed out games:

(82games article from the 03 season)

Yet for us ultimately the choice remains the same as it has been for some time: Shaquille O'Neal. Free throw shooting aside, no one comes close to scaring defenses like Shaq, and there are key areas where he rates head and shoulders above Nowitzki -- when the shot clock is running down, Nowitzki was only a 43.3% effective shooter compared to Shaq's 54.5%, more of Shaq's baskets are unassisted, meaning he creates his own points more often, and finally when you need the unstoppable shot, the power slam, there's no one even close (19% of O'Neal's clutch shots are dunks, half of them unassisted).

http://www.82games.com/comm3.htm

Key quote: "Half of Shaq's dunks are unassisted." Which also lays to rest the oft repeated contention that Kobe created for Shaq in crunch time.

Now get to Lkrfan

[HI-FI]

mid comes in here like an angel of the apocalypse. s be running around, faces melting and .

[LkrFan]

Kobe being the "closer" during the Shaq-era is a total myth fabricated by Kobe suckers such as yourself for the purpose of downplaying Shaq's overall impact to prop up Kobe's career.

In the 2000 Finals, Kobe played 9 minutes in game 2 and missed game 3, and the Lakers won by both games by 7 and 9 points respectively. And in the closeout game 6, Kirby shot 8-27 (the previous game, Kirb shot 4-20), while Shaq dropped 41 and 12 on 60% shooting. Yeah, 1A/1B indeed. But go ahead and tell me about Kobe's game 4 performance. I don't think I've heard it about it enough.

Flash forward to the '01, which is the playoff run you Kobe homers constantly bring up as evidence that he was just as important as Shaq. Here was one of the rare games in which the Lakers didn't blow their opponent out and wound winning by 1 possession. http://www.basketball-reference.com/...060LAL.html#q4

In that 4th quarter, Kobe was 0-2 for 4 points, which were the result of intentional foul freethrows. On the other hand, Shaq had 15 points in the 4th, and was pretty much forcefed the ball throughout the entire quarter.

Those are just a few examples, but trust me, I have many more that completely disprove the myth Kobe was the "closer" for the 3 peat Lakers.

mid maaaaaaaaadd again. You go with your scientific research of basketball reference. I'll go with my basic farmer facts:

Shaq always played on a playoff team. Shaq's teams were stacked in Orlando, Lakers, Heat, etc. He's played with all stars such as Penny, Kobe, LeBron, and Wade. He did most of his damage with Kobe. But, since The Split, it's appropriately:

Kobe: 2, Shaq: 1. Even if Kobe never laces them up again, that won't change.

[Thread]

But, since The Split, it's appropriately:

Kobe: 2, Shaq: 1. Even if Kobe never laces them up again, that won't change.

& thank Christ. It's silent now because of the arrangement of the principles involved in that equation. If it were reversed it wouldn't be silent. But, it ain't reversed. And like LF says, "that won't change."

[LkrFan]

Oh I forgot about Bawstin. He also played with PP, KG, and RA (3 HOFers) in order to catch Kobe in rangs...and failed miserably I might add.

But in the end, its Kobe: 2, Shaq: 1. Even if Kobe never laces them up again, that won't change.

[midnightpulp]

mid maaaaaaaaadd again. You go with your scientific research of basketball reference. I'll go with my basic farmer facts:
Shaq always played on a playoff team. Shaq's teams were stacked in Orlando, Lakers, Heat, etc. He's played with all stars such as Penny, Kobe, LeBron, and Wade. He did most of his damage with Kobe. But, since The Split, it's appropriately:

Kobe: 2, Shaq: 1. Even if Kobe never laces them up again, that won't change.

Nice counterargument. Beyond weak. And lol at citing Shaq's supporting casts. As if Kobe hasn't had the luxury of playing alongside the best frontline in the NBA for virtually his entire career. Furthermore on that point, Shaq is in no way to blame for the Magic's failure to win a le. During Shaq's tenure in the East, his Magic teams had to contend with the likes of the Bulls and the Knicks. And when he finally reached the Finals, he unfortunately ran up against Hakeem. Despite Shaq's quote of "Hakeem dusted my butt," a 23 year old Shaq in his second playoff run ever hung right there with him (check all the box scores): http://www.basketball-reference.com/...506070ORL.html Not Shaq's fault Nick Anderson choked in game 1, essentially killing any hope the Magic had,

And yeah I'm mad. I can't stand it when people are oblivious to reality and live in their own deluded fantasy worlds. And that seems to be the case with 100% of Kobe fans.

Shaq>>>>Kirby during the 3 peat. And that's that.

[midnightpulp]

mid comes in here like an angel of the apocalypse. s be running around, faces melting and .

These morons can never respond logically to a counterargument that is supported by statistical evidence, because they have no legitimate response. They can't prove Kobe was the superior player to Shaq or even his equal during the 3 peat, so they default to the ever convenient ring count, which the media has convinced their tiny brains is the be-all, end-all measurement of a player. I find it highly ironic Lakers fans are now using it when they (older Lakers fans) spent 75% of their lives trying to convince us Jerry West/Wilt was better than Russell and that Jordan is an inferior player to Magic because he won his rings in a weaker era.

[LkrFan]

Nice counterargument. Beyond weak. And lol at citing Shaq's supporting casts. As if Kobe hasn't had the luxury of playing alongside the best frontline in the NBA for virtually his entire career. Furthermore on that point, Shaq is in no way to blame for the Magic's failure to win a le. During Shaq's tenure in the East, his Magic teams had to contend with the likes of the Bulls and the Knicks. And when he finally reached the Finals, he unfortunately ran up against Hakeem. Despite Shaq's quote of "Hakeem dusted my butt," a 23 year old Shaq in his second playoff run ever hung right there with him (check all the box scores): http://www.basketball-reference.com/...506070ORL.html Not Shaq's fault Nick Anderson choked in game 1, essentially killing any hope the Magic had,

And yeah I'm mad. I can't stand it when people are oblivious to reality and live in their own deluded fantasy worlds. And that seems to be the case with 100% of Kobe fans.

Shaq>>>>Kirby during the 3 peat. And that's that.

- Shaq was in his prime. Of course he was better than Kobe then. No arguments here. Due to his lack of a work ethic, his prime was cut short - yet we saw Kobe squeezing every last drop out of his. That's why I respect Kobe more than I ever did Shaq. He left a lot on the table that should have been his (i.e. more rangs, points, rebounds, swats, etc.) because he rested on his God-given talents. Kobe didn't.

But at you being mad for real on a message board. "Come on man!"

[Thread]

Nice counterargument. Beyond weak. And lol at citing Shaq's supporting casts. As if Kobe hasn't had the luxury of playing alongside the best frontline in the NBA for virtually his entire career. Furthermore on that point, Shaq is in no way to blame for the Magic's failure to win a le. During Shaq's tenure in the East, his Magic teams had to contend with the likes of the Bulls and the Knicks. And when he finally reached the Finals, he unfortunately ran up against Hakeem. Despite Shaq's quote of "Hakeem dusted my butt," a 23 year old Shaq in his second playoff run ever hung right there with him (check all the box scores): http://www.basketball-reference.com/...506070ORL.html Not Shaq's fault Nick Anderson choked in game 1, essentially killing any hope the Magic had,

And yeah I'm mad. I can't stand it when people are oblivious to reality and live in their own deluded fantasy worlds. And that seems to be the case with 100% of Kobe fans.

Shaq>>>>Kirby during the 3 peat. And that's that.

These morons can never respond logically to a counterargument that is supported by statistical evidence, because they have no legitimate response. They can't prove Kobe was the superior player to Shaq or even his equal during the 3 peat, so they default to the ever convenient ring count, which the media has convinced their tiny brains is the be-all, end-all measurement of a player. I find it highly ironic Lakers fans are now using it when they (older Lakers fans) spent 75% of their lives trying to convince us Jerry West/Wilt was better than Russell and that Jordan is an inferior player to Magic because he won his rings in a weaker era.

You can have all that, daddy-O. I'm stickin' with this one:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old bag Duncan: 4

[midnightpulp]

You can have all that, daddy-O. I'm stickin' with this one:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old bag Duncan: 4

And you're the primary example of this. You use ring count out of spite because you grew bitter at the constant toting up of: Russell: 11, West: 1

Jerry West was definitely the same caliber player as Russell, but made to look like a pile of in comparison because he trailed in the count by 10.

Tell me how many debates you had in those days with your schoolyard chums bemoaning the fact that if West was afforded a similar stacked roster like Russell, he'd win just as much? I bet you argued that point till you were blue in the face.

And they didn't listen, did they? The just smiled and referenced the raw count.

[LkrFan]

These morons can never respond logically to a counterargument that is supported by statistical evidence, because they have no legitimate response. They can't prove Kobe was the superior player to Shaq or even his equal during the 3 peat, so they default to the ever convenient ring count, which the media has convinced their tiny brains is the be-all, end-all measurement of a player. I find it highly ironic Lakers fans are now using it when they (older Lakers fans) spent 75% of their lives trying to convince us Jerry West/Wilt was better than Russell and that Jordan is an inferior player to Magic because he won his rings in a weaker era.

No. Although Showtime used to kick the Bulls' asses, MJ was light years better defensively than Magic ever was. Magic played good team defense, but as an individual defender, MJ was light years better. Magic is my fav player all time (believe it or not), but I'll readily admit MJ was better overall.

[midnightpulp]

- Shaq was in his prime. Of course he was better than Kobe then. No arguments here. Due to his lack of a work ethic, his prime was cut short - yet we saw Kobe squeezing every last drop out of his. That's why I respect Kobe more than I ever did Shaq. He left a lot on the table that should have been his (i.e. more rangs, points, rebounds, swats, etc.) because he rested on his God-given talents. Kobe didn't.

But at you being mad for real on a message board. "Come on man!"

Me saying I'm mad was totally sarcastic.

That's all fine and good that you respect Kobe more. And it's a fact Kobe's work ethic was infinitely better than Shaq's. All I ask for is the admission that Shaq was more important to the 3 peat than Kobe, which every conceivable form of evidence supports. It wasn't 50/50, 1A/1B. The 3 peat Lakers were built around Shaq. They were his team. End of story. And Kobe winning post-Shaq doesn't change that fact one bit.

[HI-FI]

Me saying I'm mad was totally sarcastic.

That's all fine and good that you respect Kobe more. And it's a fact Kobe's work ethic was infinitely better than Shaq's. All I ask for is the admission that Shaq was more important to the 3 peat than Kobe, which every conceivable form of evidence supports. It wasn't 50/50, 1A/1B. The 3 peat Lakers were built around Shaq. They were his team. End of story. And Kobe winning post-Shaq doesn't change that fact one bit.

everyone knows Shaq was the reason for those 3 rings, even the cult of Kobe knows better, they just delude themselves. I remember when Lakers were up against the Nets, someone asked Jason Kidd how to stop the Lakers, and he said "pour sugar in Shaq's gas tank." he didn't say "throw a helpless white woman at Kobe" or anything like that, because Kobe was just a really good second option, per the par.

[LkrFan]

Me saying I'm mad was totally sarcastic.

That's all fine and good that you respect Kobe more. And it's a fact Kobe's work ethic was infinitely better than Shaq's. All I ask for is the admission that Shaq was more important to the 3 peat than Kobe, which every conceivable form of evidence supports. It wasn't 50/50, 1A/1B. The 3 peat Lakers were built around Shaq. They were his team. End of story. And Kobe winning post-Shaq doesn't change that fact one bit.

Oh I know you ain't mad. Just messing witcha tbh.

Shaq and Kobe arrived in LA at the same time. Shaq, in his prime. Kobe, as a snot-nosed 17 year old. PJ rightfully made Shaq the focal point of the tri. Shaq dominated weak frontlines (or feasted on weak comp - as you put it) like there was no tomorrow. At least until he ran into teams with good frontlines like San Antonio's twin towers. Even after Kobe ran him out of town, and after the Admiral retired, the Spurs did nothing special to deal with him. They had players like past his prime Kevin Willis, or Rasho, Nazr, Oberto, and the like. Doesn't sound like Pop was too worried about the MDE.

Kobe, OTOH was a different animal altogether. After Kobe closed the Alamodome, Pop had seen enough. You guys went out and got the then premiere defender in the association: Bruce Lee Bowen.


So, if Shaq was more important to the Lakers, why did Pop conscientiously decide to role with scrubs at center to combat him...yet went out and got BLB to stop Kobe? I think you know why even if you won't admit it. It's OK. You're secret is safe with me.

[Clipper Nation]

After Kobe closed the Alamodome, Pop had seen enough. You guys went out and got the then premiere defender in the association: Bruce Lee Bowen.

Revisionist history.... Bowen had a whopping one quality season to his name in Miami before he signed with the Spurs and only managed to make Second Team All-Defense that year.... he became the premiere defender in the Association as a Spur, and it had little to do with Kirby, tbh...

[midnightpulp]

Oh I know you ain't mad. Just messing witcha tbh.

Shaq and Kobe arrived in LA at the same time. Shaq, in his prime. Kobe, as a snot-nosed 17 year old. PJ rightfully made Shaq the focal point of the tri. Shaq dominated weak frontlines (or feasted on weak comp - as you put it) like there was no tomorrow. At least until he ran into teams with good frontlines like San Antonio's twin towers. Even after Kobe ran him out of town, and after the Admiral retired, the Spurs did nothing special to deal with him. They had players like past his prime Kevin Willis, or Rasho, Nazr, Oberto, and the like. Doesn't sound like Pop was too worried about the MDE.

Kobe, OTOH was a different animal altogether. After Kobe closed the Alamodome, Pop had seen enough. You guys went out and got the then premiere defender in the association: Bruce Lee Bowen.


So, if Shaq was more important to the Lakers, why did Pop conscientiously decide to role with scrubs at center to combat him...yet went out and got BLB to stop Kobe? I think you know why even if you won't admit it. It's OK. You're secret is safe with me.

What a ty argument. As usual for you.

For all but ONE year in the post-season, Shaq was always matched up with Tim Duncan and David Robinson when they played the Spurs. So I don't get where you came up with this beyond stupid idea that Popovich intentionally used scrubs to guard O'Neal or wasn't really worried about him. And after the '03 season, there was major, major concern about who was going to replace David Robinson, because we knew without him, O'Neal would punish the Spurs inside. To fill the gap in the frontline left by Robinson's departure, the Spurs courted Jermaine O'Neal (not necessarily the ideal choice with regards to guarding Shaq, but since O'Neal had a good midrange jumper, the idea was to use him to pull Shaq out of the lane, which would in all likelihood force Shaq to guard Duncan, which is a matchup the Spurs in those days would want, since Duncan typically got the better of him on the block) but eventually settled on Rasho, who was by no means a scrub, coming off a solid year in Minnesota.

As for acquiring Bowen. Why not? When your best perimeter defender is Steve Smith, of course you're going to sign the best guy available for the job. Even if Kobe Bryant never existed, the Spurs would've still signed Bowen. And why wouldn't the Spurs make a move like that? Just because they went after Bowen doesn't lend any extra credence to the idea that Kobe was just as important as Shaq. If the '07 Cavs thought they were going back to the Finals in '08, I'm sure they would've tried to sign a defender capable of guarding Parker. Doesn't mean they fear him more than Duncan. I think any team with championship aspirations would jump at the chance to sign a guy that can matchup with the second best player on a contending team.

Again, how you constantly bring up the Spurs' acquisition of Bowen as evidence that Kobe was more important than Shaq is such a stupid take, I myself feel stupider for even dignifying it with a response.

[midnightpulp]

The Spurs also bolstered their PG situation with the drafting of Parker and the Speedy Claxton signing, since the Spurs were superthin at the position with an ancient Avery Johnson and Antonio Daniels, who was an SG. Derek Fisher destroyed us in '01 because the Spurs had no one that could guard him effectively or make him work defensively. According to Lkrfan logic, the Spurs feared Fisher more than Shaq because they made moves to address that weakness.

[LkrFan]

What a ty argument. As usual for you.

For all but ONE year in the post-season, Shaq was always matched up with Tim Duncan and David Robinson when they played the Spurs. So I don't get where you came up with this beyond stupid idea that Popovich intentionally used scrubs to guard O'Neal or wasn't really worried about him. And after the '03 season, there was major, major concern about who was going to replace David Robinson, because we knew without him, O'Neal would punish the Spurs inside. To fill the gap in the frontline left by Robinson's departure, the Spurs courted Jermaine O'Neal (not necessarily the ideal choice with regards to guarding Shaq, but since O'Neal had a good midrange jumper, the idea was to use him to pull Shaq out of the lane, which would in all likelihood force Shaq to guard Duncan, which is a matchup the Spurs in those days would want, since Duncan typically got the better of him on the block) but eventually settled on Rasho, who was by no means a scrub, coming off a solid year in Minnesota.

As for acquiring Bowen. Why not? When your best perimeter defender is Steve Smith, of course you're going to sign the best guy available for the job. Even if Kobe Bryant never existed, the Spurs would've still signed Bowen. And why wouldn't the Spurs make a move like that? Just because they went after Bowen doesn't lend any extra credence to the idea that Kobe was just as important as Shaq. If the '07 Cavs thought they were going back to the Finals in '08, I'm sure they would've tried to sign a defender capable of guarding Parker. Doesn't mean they fear him more than Duncan. I think any team with championship aspirations would jump at the chance to sign a guy that can matchup with the second best player on a contending team.

Again, how you constantly bring up the Spurs' acquisition of Bowen as evidence that Kobe was more important than Shaq is such a stupid take, I myself feel stupider for even dignifying it with a response.

at your contradiction. Fact: Pop hid Duncan from Shaq in the first 3 quarters. Then he'd put Duncan on him during the time Shaq is the opposite of dominant: 4th quarters and crunch time due to the threat of hack-a-Shaq. Otherwise, Duncan is in foul trouble early and often, then the Spurs are blown out on the regular.

I call BS re: Bowen signing. Had Kobe not killed the Spurs, y'all wouldn't have signed Bowen. You're being dishonest if you say otherwise.

The Cavs didn't bother signing Bowen to guard TP because they knew you guys wouldn't be waiting for them in '08. Repeat after me, the Spurs don't repeat.

We all know that if Kobe didn't rape SA, Bowen would have stayed in South Beach. It is not a coincidence. You're in denial son.

[LkrFan]

Revisionist history.... Bowen had a whopping one quality season to his name in Miami before he signed with the Spurs and only managed to make Second Team All-Defense that year.... he became the premiere defender in the Association as a Spur, and it had little to do with Kirby, tbh...

N . Bowen was a good defender before he was a Spur. Add him to a team with an elite anchor that has his back? Instantly he becomes better as well.

You did all that research for nothing. Just like mid.

[LkrFan]

The Spurs also bolstered their PG situation with the drafting of Parker and the Speedy Claxton signing, since the Spurs were superthin at the position with an ancient Avery Johnson and Antonio Daniels, who was an SG. Derek Fisher destroyed us in '01 because the Spurs had no one that could guard him effectively or make him work defensively. According to Lkrfan logic, the Spurs feared Fisher more than Shaq because they made moves to address that weakness.

No. Fish played off of the inevitable double teams drawn by Shaq and Kobe. Speaking of which, in the 4th (and final game of that series ), Kobe had 11 dimes and Fish had 6 treys. Coincidence? And before you go there, Shaq had 1 dime in that game.

Like I said, Kobe closed the Alamodome.