Asik is pretty decent, although I'm not sure an Ibaka style player is really who you compare Asik to. Ibaka was actually fairly brilliant with 17 pts, 7 boards, and 3 blocks last night.
I need to match up Asik (who is pretty much the only talented big Rockets have) with whoever is the most talented OKC big, which we all know it's not Perkins.
Ibaka had a good game, but we'll see how sustainable it is. He's a 10ppg average guy. He's a great help defender but individually he's pretty poor. Asik had 9 and 7 while being in foul trouble early.
It's going to be difficult for Asik and Parsons to stay out of foul trouble in this series, for obvious reasons, tbh.
First playoff game and he had some dumb turnovers in the second where the game started getting away for the final time. That stretch killed the Rockets chances. I hope they play better in the second game.
I do still think Asik >> Ibaka and Delfino >> Martin... Asik was great while he was not in foul trouble last night, and Martin was 2-7 and -7 until garbage time (the whole OKC bench was negative)
But I'll definitely have to review the sanity = westchuck comparison. They both have terrible decision-making, but sanity is a turnover machine. On athleticism alone, Beverly should just be getting his minutes.
You really can't draw many conclusions with just one OKC home game. This series is probably going 6 or 7 if chinaman sits down, so there's still plenty of basketball yet to be played.
no I think Lin just sucks.
No, he's a 13.2 ppg guy. Asik is more crafty around the rim, but beyond that I just don't know what he brings that would exceed that of Ibaka. Ibaka, to me, is quickly becoming the best perimeter shooting frontcourt player in the entire league. Yeah, one can claim some of that is due to being wide open, but honestly at this point the word is out. Ibaka is on the short leash now with the opposition and he's routinely hitting the 15-18 footers in isolation and with a hand in the face, not to mention the corner 3.
Career Playoff Averages
Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG 09-10 OKC 6 0 25.5 0.571 0.000 0.700 2.2 4.3 6.5 0.3 0.3 2.0 1.00 3.17 7.8 10-11 OKC 17 17 28.8 0.462 0.000 0.825 2.8 4.5 7.3 0.2 0.2 3.1 1.24 3.76 9.8 11-12 OKC 20 20 28.4 0.528 0.250 0.722 2.4 3.4 5.8 0.6 0.6 3.0 0.55 2.85 9.8
He's a much better one on one defender and he actually has a 'big' game. He's basically Perkins type of defender and actually has a post game.
A 'stretch-4' that shoots 35% from downtown isn't that great. What he does have is athleticism for putbacks. As a 'big' he's basically mediocre (poor individual defense, no post game), as a perimeter treat he's also so-so (limited range). He stands out as help defender though. He's severely overpaid for what he brings.
tbh, nobody is scared of Ibaka. Most teams will live with his 10ppg... If you're playing OKC, Durant is your main concern. Used to be Durant and Harden, but now it's just Durant.
He averages over 13 a game. Why do you keep spitting out 10ppg? You're 30% off, man. If you're gonna use stats, use accurate stats. Ibaka shot 47% from 16-23 feet on the season. You're not gonna find many players in the entire league that shoot that % from that range, given you look at players who at at least shoot 2-3 attempts a game from that range. Among frontcourt players, the only guys shooting that type of % are Duncan and Bosh. So to say he's so-so from the perimeter displays your lack of understanding for what the guy actually does and your lack of knowledge of his stats. If I'm the opposition, I kind of want to pay attention to a guy who is near the top in the entire league at shooting from 16-23 feet. A bit odd for a Spurs fan to claim that Serge Ibaka is of no concern to him given the fact that Ibaka lit the Spurs up in the playoffs last year. Obviously, Kevin Durant is of much more concern to an opponent than Ibaka is - that kinda goes without saying, doesn't it?
Because regular season is not the playoffs. Any player can stat-pad against ty teams. When he starts averaging 13ppg during the actual playoffs, we'll update the numbers, until then, he's a 9.8ppg player.
Cherry picking stats means nothing. The 2-point jumpshot is the worst quality shot you can take. An actual 7 footer taking nothing but jumpshoots is terrible. Both Duncan and Bosh actually have a back-to-the-basket post game, and they obviously shot over 50% from there. Most bigs do. Asik does.
If he plays in the perimeter, then you compare him to perimeter players, and 47%/35% is so-so (actually, the 3 point percentage is pretty mediocre). Compared to other stretch-4s, a scrub like Jamison is shooting pretty much the same (46%/36%), and even scrubs like Bonner are way superior (48%/44%).
Serge had a couple of good games against us, but what did us in was KD and, above all, Harden. We had no answers for him. Surprised OKC fan still doesn't know what their weaknesses are after Miami thoroughly cleaned that clock last season.
Well in my perfect world, Ibaka would have an all word post game as well and transform himself into the next Hakeem Olajuwon, but that's not happening. I realize his post game leaves a lot to be desired. However, as it stands, he shoots the perimeter shot at near 50%. So I suppose if the defense thinks like you do in that a 7 footer shooting jumpers is a terrible shot, then they can just lay back, give him a 5-6 foot cushion and let him fire away and see how that works out.
You seem to be deviating from the argument here, which was Asik vs Ibaka. I'm not making the claim that Ibaka is an all world superstar here. I simply stated that, yes, Asik has a superior post game, but outside that I felt Ibaka was the superior player. That's not really an outrageous claim. YOu act like I'm comparing Ibaka to Tim Duncan or something.
It works out just like with Westbrook: You much rather have those taking jumpers than giving KD one more opportunity to flail his arms and shot two more freebies. I don't think this is any kind of revelation. The 10ppg game isn't the difference maker, the 30ppg guy is.
Hey, you dragged Duncan and Bosh into this conversation, I brought up Jamison or Bonner, which, IMO, are basically what Ibaka's game is. The reality is that I should've compared Asik with Perkins, but Perk is a statue on offense, so I have to compare against Ibaka on a production-value basis, more than actual position or type of play.
I only brought up Bosh in Duncan in terms of a specific range jumpshot. I wasn't comparing Ibaka's overall offensive game to theirs. I understand why you are comparing Asik to Ibaka and not Perkins. I'm not intending to make Ibaka into a player he isn't. I simply believe he's an outstanding perimeter jump shooter, no more and no less really, as far as offense goes. 47% from 16-23 feet is outstanding, anyway you look at it. I do believe he can develop more of an offensive game, though.
Yes, you want the ball in Ibaka's hands rather than KD's. Again - that goes without saying. I don't think you want it out of KD's hands so badly that you give an Ibaka wide open 15 footers all night long though. I mean as a coach, if you pick that poison and he hits 5, 6, 7 in a row on you, at some point you have to rethink what you're doing.
Did ElNono forget to log into Clipper Nation? Holy his takes and attempts at trolling in Thunder-related discussions are a joke.
Set a cherry on top of him.
If I had to pick what he does best, I think he's probably the league's best help defender. I don't think his offense is anything to write home about though, especially for a big. So we'll disagree there.
Good coaches rarely knee jerk because they understand how odds work. If OKC beats you with Ibaka shooting jumpers from 16-23 while KD watches, then you tip your hat and move on. Every player can have a fluke game, that's why there's 7 games to a series, so such flukes eventually have less of an impact.
clearly not working...
If Asik could hit the Kurt Thomas jumper it would do worlds for his game, and would allow him to complement a fellow post up player, should the rockets make a splash in free agency
BTW thunderup, we're having a solid conversation here with OKC fan... anything you want to add pardner?
dp
Can't help but post a few comments here:
Ibaka had 17 points last night so he's averaging 17 ppg this playoffs, 17ppg > 13ppg. And he did this in 4 fewer minutes.
This regular season Ibaka averaged 59.6%(!!!!!!!) on his 10 < 16 ft jumpers. Holy crap. We keep saying we'll take it when he shoots these, but this has become a regular occurrence. This shot needs to be respected and defended. He had some of these last night too and I hope the Spurs don't ignore these shots if they meet in the WCF. That is 12% higher than KD reg season avg and almost 20% higher than Duncan who has grown more accustomed to involving his mid-range game. Umm yeah I'd rather KD take that shot if I had to choose. At least KD is being defended.
Ibaka also bested Duncan's 16ft < 3 pt shot by 5% and KD by 4.5%. Again, the dude has a legit mid-range game that needs to be respected. He shot these at 47.5%.
Excuse my use of Duncan, obviously I watch him the most and think his mid-range game is pretty reliable.
Now, ElNono's argument about all this applying in the regular season is still valid so I guess we'll have to wait and see how he's shooting after some more games during this post-season, though Ibaka did shoot 64% last night with a mixture of shots.
OKC makes strong points all around. Could've have said the same better. It sounds like you're still asshurt from Ibaka going HAM against your team.
We got beat by Harden/Durant, why would I be asshurt about Ibaka? That makes no sense.OKC makes strong points all around. Could've have said the same better. It sounds like you're still asshurt from Ibaka going HAM against your team.
He's a 10ppg player, anything over, it's a fluke. Facts don't lie.
59% from 10-16 feet. There you have it. Ive heard a lot of "fluke" talk surrounding Ibaka on this board, primarily from the 11-11 game he had in the playoffs. Sure, 11-11 is kind of a once in a year type shooting performance for the guy, but at some point, when a guy consistently shoots for 2 seasons near 50% in the 16-23 foot range, 59% from 10-16 feet...it goes from what you think is a fluke to a consistent aspect of his game that you can't just ignore. And it's not as if these high %'s are based on low attempts. Ibaka attempts as many 16-23 footers per game as KD does. Sure, he benefits from the players around him and being open enough to get off clean attempts, but either way, he's shooting at a % that forces a defense to keep close tabs on him. I think the word fluke should be officially retired in terms of using it to describe Ibaka's jumpshot.
This gets me every time!!I'm an idiot!!
Get ready for some more fluke games then.
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