Spurs: Duncan really hasnt had that many "great" games relative to other greats...

[LkrFan]

Could you boil it down?

[LkrFan]

He's trying to say Duncan takes it up the ass by other guys.

[LkrFan]

Im saying Jordan had more amazing games using "forward/center" statistics than Duncan did (and Jordans not even a F/C).

Try to keep up.

[LkrFan]

One little detail that you're missing from your analysis is defense. Duncan is arguably the best defender out of all those listed there.

That's not true. MJ won DPOY in '88 IIRC. To do so in the '80s is no small feat. TD never won det award.

[benstanfield]

It's almost as if his game is reliant on team-centric fundamentals that aren't measured and reported by the sports media. Crazy!

[da_suns_fan]

So now all of a sudden, Duncan > Barkley? How do you determine the criteria? Did you take into account pace? How was the criteria determined? Was opposition and teammates factored in? Not exactly sure how this worked.

As for the Jordan comment, why are you ignoring 3 of the 4 criterion you set yourself when comparing Jordan to Duncan and declared Jordan the winner despite Duncan was "better" in 3 of the 4 criterion? You my be too dense to realize this, but you just contradicted yourself.

No..Spurs fans argue that Duncan didnt have "great games" but a ton of "good games" yet he didnt nearly as many "good games" as either Malone or Shaq.

Barkley didnt have as many "good games" as Duncan but in his own way he was better than anyone else.

Number of 20 point/20 rebound games:

1 Charles Barkley* F 53
2 Shaquille O'Neal C 49
3 Dwight Howard C 47
4 Hakeem Olajuwon* C 41
5 Tim Duncan F 31

You see now?

As far as Duncan/Jordan, youre either an idiot or just pretending to be. Duncan didnt have as many great games as his peers ( le of thread). The first query reveals several wings had far more 40 point/10 rebound games than Duncan did because Duncan's not a great scorer.

Hes not a great scorer. Hes not a great rebounder. He's consistently "good" at both but not nearly as consistent as Malone or Shaq.

And no, i did not factor in "pace". Funny that Shaq/Barkley/Malone dont need the EXCUSES that spurs fans give Duncan.

[LkrFan]

Number of 20/10 games:



Anyway you slice it, Duncan gets a big "meh".

As far as Jordan/Duncan, youre probably too dense to understand: Jordan had far more 40/10 games even though he was a shooting guard (who tend not to have double digit rebounds) because it was FAR more likely that Jordan would grab 10 rebounds (to go along with his usual 40 points) than Duncan having a 40 point game (to go along with his usual ten rebounds). And its not just Jordan. Its Dirk, Lebron, Kobe, Melo etc.

Bottom line: Duncan isnt a great scorer.

just got real...bad for Duncan Fanbois

[da_suns_fan]

just got real...bad for Duncan Fanbois

True. This is where they use deflection to try and avoid the truth.

[DAF86]

No..Spurs fans argue that Duncan didnt have "great games" but a ton of "good games" yet he didnt nearly as many "good games" as either Malone or Shaq.

Barkley didnt have as many "good games" as Duncan but in his own way he was better than anyone else.

Number of 20 point/20 rebound games:


You see now?

As far as Duncan/Jordan, youre either an idiot or just pretending to be. Duncan didnt have as many great games as his peers ( le of thread). The first query reveals several wings had far more 40 point/10 rebound games than Duncan did because Duncan's not a great scorer.

Hes not a great scorer. Hes not a great rebounder. He's consistently "good" at both but not nearly as consistent as Malone or Shaq.

And no, i did not factor in "pace". Funny that Shaq/Barkley/Malone dont need the EXCUSES that spurs fans give Duncan.

Duncan doesn't need any excuse, tbh. He won 4 tles as the best player of his team.

[cd98]

And yet Duncan was the MVP in three out of four championships (runner up in the 4th championship). What good did it do Malone and Barkley to have a few dominant games when the end result was they lost. I think they would both trade their dominant games for one of Duncan's championships.

[Richie]

Duncan has never put up the scoring numbers of someone like Shaq, but the Spurs were always a very slow paced team which focused on defence. It's hard to measure Duncans defensive contribution, but he led the league in defensive win shares 6 times and will likely retire as 2nd all time behind Bill Russell.

Although if you wanna look at big games in big moments, how many players have been so close to a quadruple double in the Finals?

[DMC]

The premise of the OP is true. It's not a great game that separates a player from his peers. It's his body of work. Tim's body of work is beyond reproach.

[ambchang]

No..Spurs fans argue that Duncan didnt have "great games" but a ton of "good games" yet he didnt nearly as many "good games" as either Malone or Shaq.

Barkley didnt have as many "good games" as Duncan but in his own way he was better than anyone else.

Number of 20 point/20 rebound games:


You see now?

As far as Duncan/Jordan, youre either an idiot or just pretending to be. Duncan didnyt have as many great games as his peers ( le of thread). The first query reveals several wings had far more 40 point/10 rebound games than Duncan did because Duncan's not a great scorer.

Hes not a great scorer. Hes not a great rebounder. He's consistently "good" at both but not nearly as consistent as Malone or Shaq.

And no, i did not factor in "pace". Funny that Shaq/Barkley/Malone dont need the EXCUSES that spurs fans give Duncan.

The issue is that these criterion are just drawn up on a whim. Who determines these as good or great games? And what does it matter? And didn't you just say Howard > Hakeem? Along with other inconsistencies. You just proved your own criteria to be faulty. It's like saying sleepy Floyd have more 28 point playoff quarters than Jordan, therefore sleepy is a better scorer.

An you didn't answer the Jordan issue at all. You listed 5 criterion, then said Jordan > Duncan even in big men stats despite Duncan beating Jordan in three out of 4. It's one thing to be an idiot , unite another to be an idiot and accusing others to be one like you just did.

As for pace, it's a very important part of statistics. Pretty much all advanced stats take pace I to account because of the relevance. You listing it as an excuse pretty much barred you from ever being any kind of authority on stats

[DMC]

That's not true. MJ won DPOY in '88 IIRC. To do so in the '80s is no small feat. TD never won det award.

Howard did a few times. How's that holding up?

[DMC]

He's trying to say Duncan takes it up the ass by other guys.

Get yours where you can find it. Lord knows you'll be hungry here soon enough.

[024]

This isn't really surprising:

1. Duncan's play always emphasized his teammates. He could take more shot attempts and up his scoring but he would have won less games. It's a team game. Like what Lebron said, he could easily be the top scorer in the league every year but that's not his goal. His goal is to help his team win games.
2. Duncan never was blessed with the athleticism and/or strength like Drob or Barkley. He certainly wasn't like Shaq, who can just plow through double teams. Therefore if he sees a passing opportunity, he'll pass it to his teammates. Instead of beating opposing teams through sheer power and athleticism, when a double team comes, he beats them instead by finding an open player. It's very trusting of him and his teammates have rewarded him.

[LkrFan]

?

"yay points" definition of greatness
would say Gervin > Duncan if he was a Spurs fan

Although he could defend, what was MJ known for? What about Shaq? Barkley? Kobe? Malone? Etc, etc, etc?

NONE of the above will make the HOF for anything more than their ability to score. The only person I can think of that made the HOF strictly due to his ability to defend and rebound? Rodman.

at the BNSFs on this board trying to diminish any player's ability to score to keep the TOSB relevant.

[capek]

Tim Duncan, unlike Malone learned that its not all about chasing scoring records, but about making teammates better and only taking over when need be

/Thread

Winning>Individual numbers

[LkrFan]

Howard did a few times. How's that holding up?

3x DPOY to be exact. Stop deflecting and stay on topic.

[da_suns_fan]

The issue is that these criterion are just drawn up on a whim. Who determines these as good or great games? And what does it matter? And didn't you just say Howard > Hakeem? Along with other inconsistencies. You just proved your own criteria to be faulty. It's like saying sleepy Floyd have more 28 point playoff quarters than Jordan, therefore sleepy is a better scorer.

An you didn't answer the Jordan issue at all. You listed 5 criterion, then said Jordan > Duncan even in big men stats despite Duncan beating Jordan in three out of 4. It's one thing to be an idiot , unite another to be an idiot and accusing others to be one like you just did.

As for pace, it's a very important part of statistics. Pretty much all advanced stats take pace I to account because of the relevance. You listing it as an excuse pretty much barred you from ever being any kind of authority on stats

LOL! Im "defining the criteria"? I didnt know it wasnt common knowledge what cons utes a "great game" (points, rebounds, blocks, shoot well etc). Ive used criteria to factor in shooting percentage. I'll use any "criteria" you want. Duncan is consistently behind Shaq, Barkley, Malone and Hakeem.

And no, I didnt say Howard > Hakeem. I said said howard had more big games according to one particular query (i dont even know which one youre talking about). But who cares? Hakeem will have more games than Howard in almost other relevant queries used to judge an big man's individual performance.

Im not cherry-picking a single query. Ive listed a dozen. Duncan's been labeled "boring" his entire career and the stats back that narrative up.

[Drachen]

Why would 25/10 games be the standard of consistency? Would a player averaging 20/10 and notching all games with 20/10 be less consistent than a guy averaging 20/10 with a bunch of 25/10 games? I would imagine the word consistency actually say the first player is more consistent.




How so? You just wrote that Duncan had MJ beat in 3 of the 4 categories? Could you please keep up with what you wrote?

If you want consistency, you are going to have to run a regression analysis of all of his games and find out what the standard deviation is. Whomever has the lowest wins your consistency argument. (ambchang, I was just piggybacking off of your argument, this isn't directed at you),.

[DMC]

Rank	Player	PER
1.	Michael Jordan*	27.91
2.	LeBron James	27.65
3.	Shaquille O'Neal	26.43
4.	David Robinson*	26.18
5.	Wilt Chamberlain*	26.13
6.	Chris Paul	25.55
7.	Dwyane Wade	25.53
8.	Bob Pet *	25.35
9.	Tim Duncan	24.73
10.	Neil Johnston*	24.69
11.	Charles Barkley*	24.63
12.	Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*	24.58
13.	Magic Johnson*	24.11
14.	Karl Malone*	23.90
15.	Kevin Durant	23.60
16.	Hakeem Olajuwon*	23.59
17.	Julius Erving*	23.58
18.	Larry Bird*	23.50
19.	Dirk Nowitzki	23.47
20.	Kobe Bryant	23.41
21.	Oscar Robertson*	23.17
22.	Kevin Garnett	23.14

[Thread]

If you want consistency, you are going to have to run a regression analysis of all of his games and find out what the standard deviation is. Whomever has the lowest wins your consistency argument. (ambchang, I was just piggybacking off of your argument, this isn't directed at you),.

Or, do this:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old bag Duncan: 4

[DMC]

LOL! Im "defining the criteria"? I didnt know it wasnt common knowledge what cons utes a "great game" (points, rebounds, blocks, shoot well etc). Ive used criteria to factor in shooting percentage. I'll use any "criteria" you want. Duncan is consistently behind Shaq, Barkley, Malone and Hakeem.

And no, I didnt say Howard > Hakeem. I said said howard had more big games according to one particular query (i dont even know which one youre talking about). But who cares? Hakeem will have more games than Howard in almost other relevant queries used to judge an big man's individual performance.

Im not cherry-picking a single query. Ive listed a dozen. Duncan's been labeled "boring" his entire career and the stats back that narrative up.

lol head coach and franchise player switched sides, now playing for LA. LOL Gay president.

[da_suns_fan]

lol head coach and franchise player switched sides, now playing for LA. LOL Gay president.

Nice attempt at deflection but Rick Welts actually works for the Warriors now (and has been for the last couple of years).