Spurs: Duncan really hasnt had that many "great" games relative to other greats...

[LkrFan]

No..Spurs fans argue that Duncan didnt have "great games" but a ton of "good games" yet he didnt nearly as many "good games" as either Malone or Shaq.

Barkley didnt have as many "good games" as Duncan but in his own way he was better than anyone else.

Number of 20 point/20 rebound games:


You see now?

As far as Duncan/Jordan, youre either an idiot or just pretending to be. Duncan didnt have as many great games as his peers ( le of thread). The first query reveals several wings had far more 40 point/10 rebound games than Duncan did because Duncan's not a great scorer.

Hes not a great scorer. Hes not a great rebounder. He's consistently "good" at both but not nearly as consistent as Malone or Shaq.

And no, i did not factor in "pace". Funny that Shaq/Barkley/Malone dont need the EXCUSES that spurs fans give Duncan.

[Johnny RIngo]

Final thougths: Its a good think Duncan lists himself as a power forward because

Don't know why people have such a bug up their ass about Duncan being a forward or center...as if he's the only one to play multiple positions. Westbrook's a shooting guard, Dirk's a jump shooting center, Magic was a 6'9'' point, Barkley played the three when he was in Philly, etc.

he was never even CLOSE to as dominant as Shaq.

I don't think anyone's going to argue this. Shaq's the most dominant big in NBA history. In certain metrics, his advanced numbers are more impressive than Jordan's.

As far as forwards go, he has "the rings" but really never matched Barkley in terms of talent

Barkley was certainly gifted on the offensive side but his all-time standing is diminished due to his AWFUL AWFUL defense.

or the long term consistency of Malone.

Malone's one of the GOAT as far longevity goes so I'm not sure why you even bring it up. In fact, longevity is the only argument left in Malone's favor after his multiple post-season failures. LOL at his .526 TS% in the playoffs. If he actually played up to his(inflated) regular season stats(.577 TS% ), he might have a ring or two. A choke artist - plain and simple.

You can understand why hes always labeled "boring" when he really never really had the "big" games as often as his peers.

Didn't take long for the Suns fan to revert back to the boring, ratings championship argument.

[spurraider21]

That's fine. I'd take the guy that will 20-10 all season until a ring over a guy that might score 50 one game then shoot 8-30 the next night. Would you rather have Chauncey Billups or Allen Iverson

[mercos]

Duncan rode those "meh" statistics to 4 rings in 8 years. Barkley and Malone have 0 between them. The argument that either one of them is better than Duncan ends there. And the whole Jordan blocked them from getting a ring argument is bunk. Duncan had to go through a Laker team with Shaq and Kobe for over half a decade.

[Fergie The Florists]

[LkrFan]

Duncan doesn't need any excuse, tbh. He won 4 tles as the best player of his team.

mid told me that's a team accomplishment. How is that relevant to this thread? " les" not " tles" - unless you are accounting for his tongue ring and tramp stamp.

[DMC]

Nice attempt at deflection but Rick Welts actually works for the Warriors now (and has been for the last couple of years).

Everyone left that ty franchise. Hey, even a got can make it to the playoffs. What's up with your team?

[DMC]

mid told me that's a team accomplishment. How is that relevant to this thread? " les" not " tles" - unless you are accounting for his tongue ring and tramp stamp.

Since Dale is a hypocrite and picks and chooses who he applies his standards too, only pussies and assholes do the spelling indictment.

[DMC]

Don't know why people have such a bug up their ass about Duncan being a forward or center...as if he's the only one to play multiple positions. Westbrook's a shooting guard, Dirk's a jump shooting center, Magic was a 6'9'' point, Barkley played the three when he was in Philly, etc.

Quite simple. Duncan is the best at something, and the haters will try to marginalize him to any role they can where they can ignore that fact. Too bad NBA coaches, players and experts don't hold the same y opinions as these random sister ers here. It must really suck for your team to have never won a ring. Duncan's 3 pointer must still sting, but not as bad as that soft ass hip check by Horry, eh?

Ah what could have been. Now you're relegated to hating the winners.

[Drachen]

Or, do this:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old bag Duncan: 4

Or do this:::

Develop a cogent thought.

[TheRealCB]

Thank Christ, otherwise O & 45 wouldn't be O & 45.

Cubby,why do you hate the Suns so much?

[DAF86]

mid told me that's a team accomplishment. How is that relevant to this thread? " les" not " tles" - unless you are accounting for his tongue ring and tramp stamp.

Being the best player of a team that won 4 times the NBA championship is an individual accomplishment.

[Thread]

Cubby,why do you hate the Suns so much?

It's inexplicable. But, it's palpable. If you gave me a deal to lock them out of the NBA le till the day I died, but, I had to lock the Lakers out as well, I'd take it like a in' shot, but, you'd have to throw the Spurs in as well. tee, hee.

[da_suns_fan]

Cubby,why do you hate the Suns so much?

It's inexplicable. But, it's palpable. If you gave me a deal to lock them out of the NBA le till the day I died, but, I had to lock the Lakers out as well, I'd take it like a in' shot, but, you'd have to throw the Spurs in as well. tee, hee.

He hated the "obsessiveness" of the Phoenix fans and media when the Suns were the only sports team in town. It gave him joy to watch the heart ache of a pitiful fan base "drinking the championship kool-aid" just to end up losing to the Lakers/Bulls/Rockets/Spurs EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

[Cry Havoc]

ITT: Fans of teams that Duncan is continuing, at 37, to take a dump on, getting all mad.

It must suck that a 37 year old player is playing at a higher level than anyone currently on your roster.

Oh yeah and, Suns fans not understanding defense. Shocker.

[Thread]

He hated the "obsessiveness" of the Phoenix fans and media when the Suns were the only sports team in town. It gave him joy to watch the heart ache of a pitiful fan base "drinking the championship kool-aid" just to end up losing to the Lakers/Bulls/Rockets/Spurs EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

& the way they (Media) never give up. And they way they talk about the Lakers between the lines and beneath their breath and in code. Mother ers. It drives me nuts. And they all do it, except for the newest guys like this Albert guy on the TV telecasts. He's clueless, he doesn't hate us and it shows thru. But, the rest, those mother ers. They haven't even lamented losing that Lottery Pick. It went from the Lottery to #30 and those ers haven't even blinked. But, if it had stayed in the Lottery I'd never hear the end of it. Now they sell it as "We have 2 first round draft picks." ers. See, they never give up.

[TheRealCB]

It's inexplicable. But, it's palpable. If you gave me a deal to lock them out of the NBA le till the day I died, but, I had to lock the Lakers out as well, I'd take it like a in' shot, but, you'd have to throw the Spurs in as well. tee, hee.

So you're not looking ahead at the Celtics?

He hated the "obsessiveness" of the Phoenix fans and media when the Suns were the only sports team in town. It gave him joy to watch the heart ache of a pitiful fan base "drinking the championship kool-aid" just to end up losing to the Lakers/Bulls/Rockets/Spurs EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

Sounds like DoK

& the way they (Media) never give up. And they way they talk about the Lakers between the lines and beneath their breath and in code. Mother ers. It drives me nuts. And they all do it, except for the newest guys like this Albert guy on the TV telecasts. He's clueless, he doesn't hate us and it shows thru. But, the rest, those mother ers. They haven't even lamented losing that Lottery Pick. It went from the Lottery to #30 and those ers haven't even blinked. But, if it had stayed in the Lottery I'd never hear the end of it. Now they sell it as "We have 2 first round draft picks." ers. See, they never give up.

I feel you on this one.

[Budkin]

He's trying to say Duncan takes it up the ass by other guys.

Come on Cub you know you love you some Jim.

[HarlemHeat37]

This thread is based on random, arbitrary numbers in the regular season? that seems pointless, tbh..

Using the same criteria in the playoffs, Duncan ranks 6th in 40 points-10 rebounds games..

30-10 games in the playoffs
Shaq: 42
Malone: 40
Olajuwon: 37
Duncan: 35
Barkley: 22

Duncan is 4th on the list, way ahead of 5th and close to 2nd..

30-20 games in the playoffs
Shaq: 10
Barkley: 7
Duncan: 4
Malone: 3
Garnett: 3
Olajuwon: 3

Duncan is 3rd on the list..

30-10 and 3 blocks(since 2 blocks isn't an impressive number, not sure why OP decided to use it
Olajuwon: 25
Shaq: 20
Duncan: 18

Duncan is 3rd, nobody else is close to these 3..

Now, let's choose our own arbitrary, impressive numbers, based on OP's base arguments..

30-20 and 5 blocks
Duncan: 3
Shaq: 2
Olajuwon: 2

Duncan is #1 on this list..

Let's factor assists into the equation to display Timmy's versatility..

20-10 and 5 assists
Lebron: 31
Duncan: 27
Barkley: 25
Malone: 25
Olajuwon: 24
Shaq: 22

Duncan is 2nd to Lebron in this category..

20-20 with 5 assists
Duncan: 7
Barkley: 5
Shaq: 4
Garnett: 3

Duncan is 1st in this category..

20-10 with 5 assists and 5 blocks
Olajuwon: 9
Duncan: 8
Shaq: 3
Robinson 3

Duncan is 2nd, barely behind Hakeem..nobody else is close..

20-20 with 5 assists and 5 blocks
Duncan: 3

Nobody else has done it more than once..

30-10 with 5 assists and 5 blocks
Duncan: 2

No other player has done it more than once, what a beast-ass , tbh..

These are just the numbers, ignoring pace, too, which is usually a disadvantage for Tim's blocks and rebounds numbers..factoring in credible advanced metrics, Duncan is at or near the top in most numbers, tbh..also, Hakeem is the only superior defensive player on any of these lists..

Any defensive metric will show that Duncan is at worst, a top 3 defender of this generation(only Garnett and Ben Wallace are on the same level)..obviously this isn't the case for Shaq, Malone, Barkley or anybody on these lists outside of Hakeem..


Some random Tim Duncan playoffs(since that's all that matters) facts with heavier weight/more substance, tbh:

- Duncan joins Lebron James, Hakeem Olajuwon and Larry Bird as the only players in the modern era to lead a team to a le while leading their team in playoffs PPG, RPG and APG..if you include BPG as well, only Duncan and Hakeem remain..

- Duncan in 2003 joins 1994 Olajuwon as the only stars in NBA history to win an NBA le with their 2nd option averaging less than 15 PPG in the playoffs..

- Duncan in 2003 had only 1 teammate with an above average PER, which has never been replicated in the modern era IIRC..


Personally, I agree that prime Shaq is better than Duncan, he's probably the most dominant player I've ever seen, maybe in the history of the NBA, tbh..Duncan's longevity has surpassed him, and there's no question that he's a superior teammate, though..

Other than Shaq, Duncan is the best playoff performer of his generation, and one of the best in history, and it isn't arguable, tbh..

[midnightpulp]

Regular season games.

[yawn]

Duncan's tuned out the reg season since '04. Only players like Kirby, Malone, etc play like it's game 7 every night because they care more about stats above all else.

[midnightpulp]

This thread is based on random, arbitrary numbers in the regular season? that seems pointless, tbh..

Using the same criteria in the playoffs, Duncan ranks 6th in 40 points-10 rebounds games..

30-10 games in the playoffs
Shaq: 42
Malone: 40
Olajuwon: 37
Duncan: 35
Barkley: 22

Duncan is 4th on the list, way ahead of 5th and close to 2nd..

30-20 games in the playoffs
Shaq: 10
Barkley: 7
Duncan: 4
Malone: 3
Garnett: 3
Olajuwon: 3

Duncan is 3rd on the list..

30-10 and 3 blocks(since 2 blocks isn't an impressive number, not sure why OP decided to use it
Olajuwon: 25
Shaq: 20
Duncan: 18

Duncan is 3rd, nobody else is close to these 3..

Now, let's choose our own arbitrary, impressive numbers, based on OP's base arguments..

30-20 and 5 blocks
Duncan: 3
Shaq: 2
Olajuwon: 2

Duncan is #1 on this list..

Let's factor assists into the equation to display Timmy's versatility..

20-10 and 5 assists
Lebron: 31
Duncan: 27
Barkley: 25
Malone: 25
Olajuwon: 24
Shaq: 22

Duncan is 2nd to Lebron in this category..

20-20 with 5 assists
Duncan: 7
Barkley: 5
Shaq: 4
Garnett: 3

Duncan is 1st in this category..

20-10 with 5 assists and 5 blocks
Olajuwon: 9
Duncan: 8
Shaq: 3
Robinson 3

Duncan is 2nd, barely behind Hakeem..nobody else is close..

20-20 with 5 assists and 5 blocks
Duncan: 3

Nobody else has done it more than once..

30-10 with 5 assists and 5 blocks
Duncan: 2

No other player has done it more than once, what a beast-ass , tbh..

These are just the numbers, ignoring pace, too, which is usually a disadvantage for Tim's blocks and rebounds numbers..factoring in credible advanced metrics, Duncan is at or near the top in most numbers, tbh..also, Hakeem is the only superior defensive player on any of these lists..

Any defensive metric will show that Duncan is at worst, a top 3 defender of this generation(only Garnett and Ben Wallace are on the same level)..obviously this isn't the case for Shaq, Malone, Barkley or anybody on these lists outside of Hakeem..


Some random Tim Duncan playoffs(since that's all that matters) facts with heavier weight/more substance, tbh:

- Duncan joins Lebron James, Hakeem Olajuwon and Larry Bird as the only players in the modern era to lead a team to a le while leading their team in playoffs PPG, RPG and APG..if you include BPG as well, only Duncan and Hakeem remain..

- Duncan in 2003 joins 1994 Olajuwon as the only stars in NBA history to win an NBA le with their 2nd option averaging less than 15 PPG in the playoffs..

- Duncan in 2003 had only 1 teammate with an above average PER, which has never been replicated in the modern era IIRC..


Personally, I agree that prime Shaq is better than Duncan, he's probably the most dominant player I've ever seen, maybe in the history of the NBA, tbh..Duncan's longevity has surpassed him, and there's no question that he's a superior teammate, though..

Other than Shaq, Duncan is the best playoff performer of his generation, and one of the best in history, and it isn't arguable, tbh..

Harlem emptied his balls onto DSF's face like the Spurs have emptied theirs on the Suns over the past decade.

[da_suns_fan]

This thread is based on random, arbitrary numbers in the regular season? that seems pointless, tbh..

Using the same criteria in the playoffs, Duncan ranks 6th in 40 points-10 rebounds games..

30-10 games in the playoffs
Shaq: 42
Malone: 40
Olajuwon: 37
Duncan: 35
Barkley: 22

Duncan is 4th on the list, way ahead of 5th and close to 2nd..

30-20 games in the playoffs
Shaq: 10
Barkley: 7
Duncan: 4
Malone: 3
Garnett: 3
Olajuwon: 3

Duncan is 3rd on the list..

30-10 and 3 blocks(since 2 blocks isn't an impressive number, not sure why OP decided to use it
Olajuwon: 25
Shaq: 20
Duncan: 18

Duncan is 3rd, nobody else is close to these 3..

Now, let's choose our own arbitrary, impressive numbers, based on OP's base arguments..

30-20 and 5 blocks
Duncan: 3
Shaq: 2
Olajuwon: 2

Duncan is #1 on this list..

Let's factor assists into the equation to display Timmy's versatility..

20-10 and 5 assists
Lebron: 31
Duncan: 27
Barkley: 25
Malone: 25
Olajuwon: 24
Shaq: 22

Duncan is 2nd to Lebron in this category..

20-20 with 5 assists
Duncan: 7
Barkley: 5
Shaq: 4
Garnett: 3

Duncan is 1st in this category..

20-10 with 5 assists and 5 blocks
Olajuwon: 9
Duncan: 8
Shaq: 3
Robinson 3

Duncan is 2nd, barely behind Hakeem..nobody else is close..

20-20 with 5 assists and 5 blocks
Duncan: 3

Nobody else has done it more than once..

30-10 with 5 assists and 5 blocks
Duncan: 2

No other player has done it more than once, what a beast-ass , tbh..

These are just the numbers, ignoring pace, too, which is usually a disadvantage for Tim's blocks and rebounds numbers..factoring in credible advanced metrics, Duncan is at or near the top in most numbers, tbh..also, Hakeem is the only superior defensive player on any of these lists..

Any defensive metric will show that Duncan is at worst, a top 3 defender of this generation(only Garnett and Ben Wallace are on the same level)..obviously this isn't the case for Shaq, Malone, Barkley or anybody on these lists outside of Hakeem..


Some random Tim Duncan playoffs(since that's all that matters) facts with heavier weight/more substance, tbh:

- Duncan joins Lebron James, Hakeem Olajuwon and Larry Bird as the only players in the modern era to lead a team to a le while leading their team in playoffs PPG, RPG and APG..if you include BPG as well, only Duncan and Hakeem remain..

- Duncan in 2003 joins 1994 Olajuwon as the only stars in NBA history to win an NBA le with their 2nd option averaging less than 15 PPG in the playoffs..

- Duncan in 2003 had only 1 teammate with an above average PER, which has never been replicated in the modern era IIRC..


Personally, I agree that prime Shaq is better than Duncan, he's probably the most dominant player I've ever seen, maybe in the history of the NBA, tbh..Duncan's longevity has surpassed him, and there's no question that he's a superior teammate, though..

Other than Shaq, Duncan is the best playoff performer of his generation, and one of the best in history, and it isn't arguable, tbh..

On the contrary. Filtering for playoffs (which you did) dramatically skews results because different teams go farther and thus THE NUMBER OF GAMES PLAYED IS DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT. I give Duncan credit for a couple of "big" games the playoffs but all those other guys played big in the playoffs AND the regular season. Charles Barkley played on some horrible 76er teams in his prime that didnt even make the playoffs...does that mean hes not as good as Duncan who played with David Robinson, Ginobili and Tony Parker?


Taking your query (20 pts, 20 rebounds and 5 assists) without the "playoff" filter produces the following results:

1 Charles Barkley* F 42
2 Dwight Howard C 42
3 Hakeem Olajuwon* C 38
4 Shaquille O'Neal C 34
5 Kevin Garnett F 27
6 Kevin Willis F 23
7 Tim Duncan F 21

btw - Do you have any idea what the word "random" means? I only ask because you claim my analysis was based off "random, arbitrary numbers". I dont think you know what either "random" or "arbitrary" actually mean.

Points, rebounds, blocks, assists etc arent "random or arbitrary". And I challenge you to find a criteria set that includes the regular season in which Duncan breaks the top two.

If Duncan is "the greatest PF", shouldnt that include regular season AND playoffs?

[Juggity]

Can't think of another NBA player who achieved (as Tim has) a quad-dub in the finals.

Pretty untouchable. Duncan wins when it matters.

[da_suns_fan]

The point of this thread was Duncan hasnt had many "big games". Even in Harlem Heats queries, all of the results produce values of "2 times", "3 times" etc.

These are called "outliers" or "anomalies". Thats why theres so few. Shaq/Barkley etc have so many more 30/15 games than Duncan because they were so much more dominant/consistent than Duncan night after night.

Likewise Duncan's "Versatility" is a joke compared to KG (who blows away everyone in the points, rebounds, blocks and assists) but he wont show up in any of Harlem Heats results because he played in so few playoff games.

[da_suns_fan]

Number of playoff games:

Duncan: 191
Barkley: 123

30-20 games in the playoffs
Shaq: 10
Barkley: 7
Duncan: 4
Malone: 3
Garnett: 3
Olajuwon: 3

Duncan starts to look worse and worse in the playoffs when you factor just how many playoff games hes played in. He should have well more than Barkley in all categories.