Heaven?

[Avante]

Deflecting per par.... the amount of threads others post is immaterial when this discussion is about the stupid YOU post.... and again, it does not matter how many threads you start when ALL of them suck.....

Totally agree!

[RandomGuy]

You do know you are in the minority, right? You can prove your claim, right?

Let's be careful to be precise, here.

I don't claim there is no God whatsoever. There may very well be some sort of immensely powerful being out there that would come about as close to such a moniker as we could imagine.

I will claim that the God of the Bible is pretty much bunk based on what we know, especially given how poorly written the bible is overall, and the directly falsified stories that are rife within the book.

If the book claims it is The Word of God, and this God tells me that women were created from the rib of a man 6,000-7,000 years ago, then it is hooey.

We have direct evidence about where we came from, and how old the universe is, both of which directly contradict the Bible's account, i.e. Word of God.

I won't even start on the Problem of Evil.

Once I have shown the Bible to be inaccurate in one thing (ok, many more that I am leaving out), then the claim that there is a God, and the Bible as his word, has to be set aside, unless we are given far more evidence than is currently in the offiing.

Unless you want to prove the universe is 7,000 years old, and that women were cloned from a mans rib?

The God of the Bible is, therefore, bunk.

QED

[DeadlyDynasty]

He stole that from Depeche Mode

[Avante]

Let's be careful to be precise, here.

I don't claim there is no God whatsoever. There may very well be some sort of immensely powerful being out there that would come about as close to such a moniker as we could imagine.

I will claim that the God of the Bible is pretty much bunk based on what we know, especially given how poorly written the bible is overall, and the directly falsified stories that are rife within the book.

If the book claims it is The Word of God, and this God tells me that women were created from the rib of a man 6,000-7,000 years ago, then it is hooey.

We have direct evidence about where we came from, and how old the universe is, both of which directly contradict the Bible's account, i.e. Word of God.

I won't even start on the Problem of Evil.

Once I have shown the Bible to be inaccurate in one thing (ok, many more that I am leaving out), then the claim that there is a God, and the Bible as his word, has to be set aside, unless we are given far more evidence than is currently in the offiing.

Unless you want to prove the universe is 7,000 years old, and that women were cloned from a mans rib?

The God of the Bible is, therefore, bunk.

QED

I tend to buy into your opinion. Hard not to.

I do however have this feeling we humans have come up against that one thing we simply can't comprehend. Something totally out of our relm of comprehension. We are so used to being able to figure everything else out that we can't fathom that this time we can't. It's simply over our heads.

I think something happened, that this isn't all by chance but what that was nobody knows, so why not call that whatever.....God?

[Avante]

He stole that from Depeche Mode

Nope, Blind Willie owns the original. There have been tons of covers with my favorite being done by John Mellencamp. Gov't Mule also does a great cover.

[RandomGuy]

I tend to buy into your opinion. Hard not to.

I do however have this feeling we humans have come up against that one thing we simply can't comprehend. Something totally out of our relm of comprehension. We are so used to being able to figure everything else out that we can't fathom that this time we can't. It's simply over our heads.

I think something happened, that this isn't all by chance but what that was nobody knows, so why not call that whatever.....God?

There is nothing to suggest that it is anything BUT chance.

If there is such a being, I don't see it as being overly concerned about a few smears of temporarily self-aware carbonic water bags tucked away somewhere.

[Woo Bum-kon]

I tend to buy into your opinion. Hard not to.

I do however have this feeling we humans have come up against that one thing we simply can't comprehend. Something totally out of our relm of comprehension. We are so used to being able to figure everything else out that we can't fathom that this time we can't. It's simply over our heads.

I think something happened, that this isn't all by chance but what that was nobody knows, so why not call that whatever.....God?

Why call it God? And if you don't understand it, why are you giving it descriptive labels?

[Avante]

There is nothing to suggest that it is anything BUT chance.

If there is such a being, I don't see it as being overly concerned about a few smears of temporarily self-aware carbonic water bags tucked away somewhere.

There are just too many things that have to work in perfect concert in order able to pull it off. What if the sun were closer? What if the earth rotated faster/slower? There are too many things that hint at some master design.

[Avante]

Why call it God? And if you don't understand it, why are you giving it descriptive labels?

I agree so what do you suggest?

[Woo Bum-kon]

There are just too many things that have to work in perfect concert in order able to pull it off. What if the sun were closer? What if the earth rotated faster/slower? There are too many things that hint at some master design.

Leap in logic.

[Woo Bum-kon]

I agree so what do you suggest?

Call the unknown the unknown, not God. Pretty simple.

[Avante]

Leap in logic.

I think there's the problem, logic. Did I not mention we are unable to comprehend? You nailed it with....logic. Here is that one thing where logic simply doesn't apply. That's why it's the huge mystery that it is, we are asked to ignore common sense and yes logic. While when it comes to everything else it's all about common sense and logic.

Logic doesn't work here and we can't go with that.

[Avante]

Call the unknown the unknown, not God. Pretty simple.

That's fine with me.

[Woo Bum-kon]

I think there's the problem, logic. Did I not mention we are unable to comprehend? You nailed it with....logic. Here is that one thing where logic simply doesn't apply. That's why it's the huge mystery that it is, we are asked to ignore common sense and yes logic. While when it comes to everything else it's all about common sense and logic.

Logic doesn't work here and we can't go with that.

Why does logic not apply? Just because something is unknown doesn't mean that it follows no rules.

You merely assert that logic doesn't apply. You haven't shown that that is the case.

[Avante]

Why does logic not apply? Just because something is unknown doesn't mean that it follows no rules.

You merely assert that logic doesn't apply. You haven't shown that that is the case.

We can start with anyone believing we all came from Adam and Eve is that logical? The Bible stories are logical? There is nothing logical about Heaven and . Nothing logical in the story of Jesus.

[Woo Bum-kon]

We can start with anyone believing we all came from Adam and Eve is that logical? The Bible stories are logical? There is nothing logical about Heaven and . Nothing logical in the story of Jesus.

Which is why we should reject the claims in the Bible. We shouldn't just look at the claims, say, "Nobody knows!" and then discard our method for finding the truth--a method we use for everything else in our life. Religious claims don't get a special exemption. There is no justification for treating those claims differently.

[Avante]

Which is why we should reject the claims in the Bible. We shouldn't just look at the claims, say, "Nobody knows!" and then discard our method for finding the truth--a method we use for everything else in our life. Religious claims don't get a special exemption. There is no justification for treating those claims differently.

So how do we go about finding out the truth about God?

[ChumpDumper]

So how do we go about finding out the truth about God?

By asking questions, using the logic that God apparently granted us.

[Woo Bum-kon]

So how do we go about finding out the truth about God?

The same way we go about finding the truth about Santa, Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, the tooth fairy, etc. We evaluate the evidence (or lack thereof), and then come to a conclusion.

What about that is hard?

[Avante]

The same way we go about finding the truth about Santa, Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, the tooth fairy, etc. We evaluate the evidence (or lack thereof), and then come to a conclusion.

What about that is hard?

How many people worship those you mentioned? How many people have died over the tooth fairy? Obviously this is far more important than Santa. Billions of people believe in some God, to try and compare that to the Loch Ness Monster isn't realistic. The belief in a God is one of the most powerful forces on Earth. Wars fought over it.

So prove there is no God. Once again our puny human logic won't work. This is far above and beyond that, obviously.

[ChumpDumper]

How many people worship those you mentioned? How many people have died over the tooth fairy? Obviously this is far more important than Santa. Billions of people believe in some God, to try and compare that to the Loch Ness Monster isn't realistic. The belief in a God is one of the most powerful forces on Earth. Wars fought over it.

So prove there is no God. Once again our puny human logic won't work. This is far above and beyond that, obviously.

There you go again, demanding proof of a negative.

[ChumpDumper]

How many people worship those you mentioned? How many people have died over the tooth fairy? Obviously this is far more important than Santa. Billions of people believe in some God, to try and compare that to the Loch Ness Monster isn't realistic. The belief in a God is one of the most powerful forces on Earth. Wars fought over it.

So prove there is no God. Once again our puny human logic won't work. This is far above and beyond that, obviously.

There you go again, demanding proof of a negative.

[Woo Bum-kon]

How many people worship those you mentioned?

That has no relevance on whether those things exist or not. Billions of people are Christian. Billions of people are Muslim. They can't all be correct, because they have contradictory beliefs. But they can all be wrong.

How many people have died over the tooth fairy?

Irrelevant. People died thinking that their souls would be carried across the universe by a comet. Just because people die for their beliefs doesn't make the beliefs true.

Muslims have died for their religion. Does that make their religion true?

Obviously this is far more important than Santa. Billions of people believe in some God, to try and compare that to the Loch Ness Monster isn't realistic.

Realistic how? Did I claim that the Loch Ness Monster and God carry the same amount of significance for everybody? No. I said that if one wants to determine if those things exist, they examine the evidence.

The belief in a God is one of the most powerful forces on Earth. Wars fought over it.

Which has no bearing on whether that belief is justified or not.

So prove there is no God.

First of all, it is not my position that there is no God, so why would I have to prove something I haven't claimed? Second, you have shifted the burden of proof from the one making the positive claim.

Once again our puny human logic won't work.

Prove it.

This is far above and beyond that, obviously.

Again, prove it. Every time you talk about religion on here, you make logically fallacious arguments. You have made the appeal to popularity and you have shifted the burden of proof. When it is pointed out how your argument doesn't make sense, you use that as proof that you are right.

[Avante]

I don't believe in the God of the Bible I thought I made that clear. I have no idea how all this came about. I just think it's all too perfect to not have some sort of master design involved, something of which I have no clue about. I do know it's not logical and nothing us humans are equipped to deal with.

[Woo Bum-kon]

You are making the argument from ignorance right now. Just because you can't see something happening any other way doesn't mean that it didn't happen some other way.

Your arguments are fallacious to their cores.