Nicolas Batum, or Kawhi Leonard?
A couple years ago, the Spurs were 1 pick away from landing Nicolas Batum but instead drafted George Hill, who was traded to the Pacers to obtain a first round pick in Kawhi Leonard. That said, looking back at it, would you have wanted Nicolas Batum, or Kawhi Leonard?
I'd be fine with either of them. They're both immensely talented, both are hard workers and students of the game, and both are improving dramatically as their careers go. On the downside, both struggle with chronic injuries.
It remains to be seen until we find out about the other two picks the Spurs got for trading Hill. If one or both of them turn into rotation players then it's no contest.
I always thought Batum had tons of upside but some nights he just doesn't show up
I think Leonard is a little bit better than Batum.
At this point I'd rather have Leonard than Batum. I think George Hill was a fine player for the time we had him too, so I'm not at all disappointed in what he brought for us.
I don't think having Batum would've put us over the top against any of the teams we lost to. The same negatives that happened will still have happened. Though. . .we probably would've have acquired Richard Jefferson and instead spent money in another area, so maybe there's that argument.
In the end, I liked George Hill, and I like Leonard. So I'm not too choked up about not having Batum.
Leonard easily, he's better than Batum in every single way, he's consistent too.
Well, I don't know , anyway; I wanted Mario Chalmers with that Hill pick once Batum was gone.
Only one other pick, 42nd overall (Bertans). The Hanga pick was the Spurs' own. Lorbek was the third piece in the trade, and that seems to just be moot now.
Right now, I think Leonard is better suited for this Spurs team. However, if Batum was drafted by the Spurs from the beginning, I suspect he may be a better player today.
You got me again. Told you I didn't know .
yep. not even worth bringing in lorbek at this point. bertans was the better prospect and is developing at a better pace than lorbek ever did
Here's another one: Danny Green or George Hill? (Assume you get to keep Kawhi either way.)
Now obviously Hill is the better all-around player. But Green has proven to be the better three-pointer shooter and is arguably turning out to be a better swing defender. Green's biggest deficiency is that he can't be used to initiate an offense, but certainly within the Spurs system Green's skillset is turning out to be a better fit.
I agree with you that the real trade-off is between Hill and Green.
Hill being the better player is pretty debatable. The only advantages Hill has is ball-handling and finishing. Especially when you compare Green now to Hill his last season with the Spurs, I think Green edges him out.
Yeah, technically neither of us is right anyway, as the trade was Hill for the rights to three players, and not actually picks. Therefore, if I consider Leonard and Bertans picks, I should have considered Lorbek one, too (46 in 2005). They all count the same on draft night.You got me again. Told you I didn't know .
I have a lot of hope for Bertans. If he can get to the States this season, I think he could be well served in a Cory Joseph--style Austin bootcamp. Lorbek has signed long term in Spain (for about $2.6 Million a season) so he's out until he's in his 30s at the very least.
Batum is a deceptively terrible defense player.
I'd take Leonard -- and it's not even that close.
Batums a better player then Leonard right now
and if he came to the Spurs from day one with his best bud Tony he probably would be a top 5 SF tbh
Batum is also a lanky semi lockdown defender
he can spotup or shoot 3s off the dribble/coming off screens from anywhere not just corners
hes a great passer like his french national teammates are
way better slasher then Leonard
Leonard is younger and a better rebounder so he has more upside
found this nugget about Batum
"Despite the stated desires for his game, he joined three other players -- LeBron James, Kevin Durant, and Scottie Pippen -- by notching 100 treys, 350 dimes, and 80 swats in a single season. Expect another jump in Batum's diverse repertoire for the 2013-14 season"
If you swap Hill for Green on the Spurs, I think the stats are nearly equal or maybe better, although the overall effectiveness probably isn't.
I don't see any way that Green gets close to Hill's numbers (14p, 4r, 5a) given the same 35 mpg on the Pacers.
Batum is 6'8" and very long but he's only ~200 lbs. That's Manu's playing weight.
Also worth noting that Portland plays Matthews against the bigger SFs like LeBron because he's bigger and tougher.
Leonard guards 2s, 3s, and 4s (he's not that good against PGs) well enough, he shut down Klay Thompson in the playoffs.
The problem is that while Hill's much better on offense, the defense would likely slip. Hill's a good defender and is one of the factors in Indiana's top defense, but Green's taller and longer, making it easier for him to frustrate guys like Steph Curry.
Green is putting up 14/4/2 per 36, which is good for a spot-up shooter who's only facilitative responsibilities involve making entry passes. He definitely could fail in another system, but I don't think he'd have to get Hill's assist numbers to be as good as Hill.
A lot of that comes from positional differences. Green is the more diverse defender. He's able to guard three (sometimes four) positions. Hill could barely manage two-guards (which is fine, since he should only have to guard points with George next to him). By that same token, Hill's position has forced him to take on a bigger role in the Pacer's offense. He HAS to get the assists, because that's his job as a point-guard. As a shooting-guard, Green doesn't have to (which is great, because his ball-handling would probably prevent it). Both of their strengths and short-comings are affected by their position, so it's hard to directly compare them.
Green's numbers are great for a 3 and D wing, tbh.
Hill was always more of a combo guard, a guy who could facilitate, attack, and shoot like an undersized Manu (though he borrowed Tony's floater)
I think we'll be having Leonard and Joseph comparisons to their classmates for a few years.
It's amazing how much talent was in the middle 30 picks of that draft. It's possible that the Spurs could have taken a completely different path with their picks and still filled all their needs. For example: Vucevic (15th), Butler (29th), Keith Benson, (42nd) and Isiah Thomas (59th). There were literally dozens of combinations like that. And people called it a weak draft class...
Hill was a great fit for the Spurs back when they could go with a three-guard rotation primarily. Now that Ginobili can't play as many minutes (or games) as he used to, having a reliable starting two-guard and back-up point is much more important. It's possible Hill would have lost effectiveness if the Spurs were forced to put in at one position. Having Green and Joseph is a major luxury for this roster.
Pretty much, but the underlying issue the Spurs had during the Hill years was a lack of wing depth: Either too old (the corpse of Finley was seeing the most minutes at SF, and Pop had given up on 39 year old Bowen) or too underwhelming for his price tag (hwmnbn).
Also, 2011 was a great draft. Sure, people will underrate it because there are no top-level stars (even if Irving, Leonard, Thompson, Faried can all get there) but it had a bunch of good talent when you got past the lottery (since the lottery teams usually can't pick well).
Of the top 5 picks, I'd rate Irving as a good one, with Thompson and Valanciunas pretty good. Kanter's okay, and Williams is bleh.
The rest of the lottery is: Vesely (lol Washington), Biyombo (lol Charlotte), Knight (eh, okay, undersized SG), Walker (eh), Fredette (lol Maloofs), K. Thompson (good, but Leonard owns him), Burks (wow, Utah), Markieff Morris (eh?) Marcus Morris (started to look even worse when he joined his brother in Phoenix)
Meanwhile, outside the lottery, you have Leonard, Harris, Faried, Parsons, Thomas...
The 2009 draft ended up being a great one for players who would end up on the Spurs, too, as four of their players were taken in the second round that year (Blair, Green, De Colo and Mills) and Baynes went undrafted that season. Hopefully, the team will get four solid players out of 2011, too, when the Euros come over.
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