Heaven?

[Avante]

You are making the argument from ignorance right now. Just because you can't see something happening any other way doesn't mean that it didn't happen some other way.

Your arguments are fallacious to their cores.

I have no arguments. If anyone can prove without a shadow of a doubt there is no God, I'd love to see it. As of right now nobody knows anything for sure.

All we have are our opinions based on no facts of any kind.

[Woo Bum-kon]

I have no arguments.

You immediately follow up this sentence with an argument.

If anyone can prove without a shadow of a doubt there is no God, I'd love to see it. As of right now nobody knows anything for sure.

There you go shifting the burden of proof yet again.

All we have are our opinions based on no facts of any kind.

It is a fact that "God" has not met the burden of proof. It is a fact that there has been no demonstrable evidence for "God's" existence. That is more than enough evidence to reject the claim that god(s) exist(s). I don't need to disprove something that hasn't been proven in the first place.

You are having trouble with this extremely simple fact.

[Avante]

You immediately follow up this sentence with an argument.



There you go shifting the burden of proof yet again.



It is a fact that "God" has not met the burden of proof. It is a fact that there has been no demonstrable evidence for "God's" existence. That is more than enough evidence to reject the claim that god(s) exist(s). I don't need to disprove something that hasn't been proven in the first place.

You are having trouble with this extremely simple fact.

I'm not having troubles at all, there was a time when if anyone were to say..."someday we'll be able to talk over those mountains with a little hand held device"....they'd called you crazy. Explain the radio/tv to seventh century Iraq. Explain the airplane to the Congo in 1400. Just because we can't prove something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

There is no proof of the non existance of some God. It's just something way beyond us right now and will always be. If you wanna disbelieve go for it as you can see billions disagree with you. I personally don't believe in the God of the Bible as I mentioned, I do realize the whole thing is way beyond me, and yes you also.

I gotta go, I have this little lawn mowing job helping out a buddy.

See ya~~~~~~~~~~

[Woo Bum-kon]

I'm not having troubles at all, there was a time when if anyone were to say..."someday we'll be able to talk over those mountains with a little hand held device"....they'd called you crazy. Explain the radio/tv to seventh century Iraq. Explain the airplane to the Congo in 1400. Just because we can't prove something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

True. That still doesn't mean anything, though. The time to start believing a claim is when it has sufficient evidence to support it. That's it and that's all.

There is no proof of the non existance of some God.

Yep, you still can't understand burden of proof. Is getting boring having to repeat myself to somebody who refuses to be rational.

It's just something way beyond us right now and will always be.

Irrelevant.

If you wanna disbelieve go for it as you can see billions disagree with you.

Appeal to popularity yet again. You love making fallacious argument.

Billions of people believe that the Qu'Ran accurately conveys the message of God. Are those people right? The same is true with Christianity. Are both Muslims and Christians correct?

I personally don't believe in the God of te Bible as I mentioned, I just realize the whole thing is way beyond me, and yes you also.

That's irrelevant. Either God exists or God doesn't exist. So far, there has been an insufficient amount of evidence for his existence. The only rational thing to do in this situation would be to not believe. Being irrational will not lead one to truth. Period. Throwing away our only tools to find out the truth is counterproductive.

[Avante]

It appears when it come to God or no God nobody really seems to care about evidence/proof/logic, you see it's not about that. It's a spiritual thing.

Why beat yourself up over this, why do care what I or anyone believes it has nothing at all to do with you. If you don't want to believe in some master designer that's totally fine with me. To try and talk me or anyone else ouit of our beliefs is a huge was of your time, surprised you aren't aware of that.

Nobody cares about proof or logic. and it's very obvious.

[ChumpDumper]

It appears when it come to God or no God nobody really seems to care about evidence/proof/logic, you see it's not about that. It's a spiritual thing.

Why beat yourself up over this, why do care what I or anyone believes it has nothing at all to do with you. If you don't want to believe in some master designer that's totally fine with me. To try and talk me or anyone else ouit of our beliefs is a huge was of your time, surprised you aren't aware of that.

Nobody cares about proof or logic. and it's very obvious.

Just say you can't prove any of your claims.

It's not difficult.

[RandomGuy]

There are just too many things that have to work in perfect concert in order able to pull it off. What if the sun were closer? What if the earth rotated faster/slower? There are too many things that hint at some master design.

No, there are not.

Just because something unusual happened doesn't mean it was caused by some active en y.

Simple laws of probability dictate that unusual things WILL happen.

The other problem is that there is no data to really show HOW improbable our existence is. It could be very common, on a universal scale. There is some thinking in mathmatics that implies this, but it is beyond my ability to evaluate.

You have, in essence, the Argument from Ignorance, a logical fallacy, in which you have inserted a theory in a gap in our current knowledge. "we don't know the answer, so it MUST be God."

"We don't know what causes bubonic plague, so it MUST be God."

"We don't know what causes volcanoes, so it MUST be God."

And so forth.

[RandomGuy]

I think there's the problem, logic. Did I not mention we are unable to comprehend? You nailed it with....logic. Here is that one thing where logic simply doesn't apply. That's why it's the huge mystery that it is, we are asked to ignore common sense and yes logic. While when it comes to everything else it's all about common sense and logic.

Logic doesn't work here and we can't go with that.

Of course logic applies.

We aren't "asked" to do anything that I am aware of. I can't think of a good reason to use logic in every single case BUT this one.

What reason can you give me why I would have to set aside the use of logic?

[RandomGuy]

I have no arguments. If anyone can prove without a shadow of a doubt there is no God, I'd love to see it. As of right now nobody knows anything for sure.

All we have are our opinions based on no facts of any kind.

it's all too perfect to not have some sort of master design involved

You do have arguments. That is one.

We all have opinions, indeed.

The problem with opinions are that some are based on logical arguments and some are not. Logical arguments have much greater chances of being true all things considered, than logically flawed ones.

That is why logic is useful, and why it leads us to real truths.

I would prefer to believe as many true things as possible, and logic is the only real way to get there. Otherwise you end up believing things like horoscopes and magic crystals, and that vaccines really cause autism.

I know of no other way to determine what is bull and what is not.

[Spur|n|Austin]

He stole that from Depeche Mode

[The Reckoning]

avante can i have your RaZon account?

[Avante]

No, there are not.

Just because something unusual happened doesn't mean it was caused by some active en y.

Simple laws of probability dictate that unusual things WILL happen.

The other problem is that there is no data to really show HOW improbable our existence is. It could be very common, on a universal scale. There is some thinking in mathmatics that implies this, but it is beyond my ability to evaluate.

You have, in essence, the Argument from Ignorance, a logical fallacy, in which you have inserted a theory in a gap in our current knowledge. "we don't know the answer, so it MUST be God."

"We don't know what causes bubonic plague, so it MUST be God."

"We don't know what causes volcanoes, so it MUST be God."

And so forth.

To think this all happened by chance is as hard to buy as there being some Master Design. As we know it's all absolutely perfect. How does that just happen?

[Avante]

Of course logic applies.

We aren't "asked" to do anything that I am aware of. I can't think of a good reason to use logic in every single case BUT this one.

What reason can you give me why I would have to set aside the use of logic?

It's logical to think woman was created from a man's rid? I can actually start and stop right there?

[Avante]

avante can i have your RaZon account?

RaZon was a mixture of pro rassler/football,track,music historian/troll/attention . Kind of a unique mix. Do you think you could duplicate RaZon?

[The Reckoning]

RaZon was a mixture of pro rassler/football,track,music historian/troll/attention . Kind of a unique mix. Do you think you could duplicate RaZon?

i've got half of those, but i'm sure after a montage i'll nail it

[Avante]

i've got half of those, but i'm sure after a montage i'll nail it

Actually....The Reckoning....is pretty cool, I like it.

[The Reckoning]

Actually....The Reckoning....is pretty cool, I like it.

[Avante]

Who wouldn't wanna be tight with.....The Reckoning...??? Say that slow....The...Reck...on..ing.

[RandomGuy]

What reason can you give me why I would have to set aside the use of logic?

It's logical to think woman was created from a man's rid? I can actually start and stop right there?

That doesn't really answer my question.

You said we needed to set aside logic for this one case.

Why? What reason would require me to set aside logic when it comes to the existence of God?

[Avante]

That doesn't really answer my question.

You said we needed to set aside logic for this one case.

Why? What reason would require me to set aside logic when it comes to the existence of God?

It's pretty obvious that here we have something so out of our relm of comprehension our puny logic simply doesn't apply. Now it becomes a spiritual/faith thing. Not unlike emotions, something else where logic doesn't apply.

[RandomGuy]

To think this all happened by chance is as hard to buy as there being some Master Design. As we know it's all absolutely perfect. How does that just happen?

We don't know.

I am cool with that.

I just don't want to start filling holes with guesses.

I haven't seen any evidence that it isn't all chance. The problem with that "it can't be chance" argument is that if it hadn't happened, we would'nt be around to have the conversation.

We have no evidence that it is anything BUT chance.

[RandomGuy]

It's pretty obvious that here we have something so out of our relm of comprehension our puny logic simply doesn't apply. Now it becomes a spiritual/faith thing. Not unlike emotions, something else where logic doesn't apply.

"it's obvious" isn't a reason, it is an excuse, and a lame one at that.

Our logic still applies. You can't wave away the laws of physics or logic when you find them inconvenient for your belief system.

[Avante]

"it's obvious" isn't a reason, it is an excuse, and a lame one at that.

Our logic still applies. You can't wave away the laws of physics or logic when you find them inconvenient for your belief system.

Right there is where the big problem is. We can't fathom something so far out there we can't explain it. Well everything has that exception to the rule and here it is...God. Yes our laws of whatever can't explain this one. That's the mystery, why can't they work when they work on everything else? Obviously this goes far beyond human understanding.

If we go back in history we can stop at anytime and see things we weren't suppose to have/be able to do today based on the logic of the times, you disagree?

[ChumpDumper]

Right there is where the big problem is. We can't fathom something so far out there we can't explain it. Well everything has that exception to the rule and here it is...God. Yes our laws of whatever can't explain this one. That's the mystery, why can't they work when they work on everything else? Obviously this goes far beyond human understanding.

If we go back in history we can stop at anytime and see things we weren't suppose to have/be able to do today based on the logic of the times, you disagree?

Your second paragraph undermines your first.

[RandomGuy]

Right there is where the big problem is. We can't fathom something so far out there we can't explain it. Well everything has that exception to the rule and here it is...God. Yes our laws of whatever can't explain this one. That's the mystery, why can't they work when they work on everything else? Obviously this goes far beyond human understanding.

If we go back in history we can stop at anytime and see things we weren't suppose to have/be able to do today based on the logic of the times, you disagree?

Ouch, that was painful to read. You really don't see the flaw in that reasoning, do you?

Do yourself a favor:

Listen to the first, 10 minutes or so of this MP3:

http://www.atheist-experience.com/ar...2013-05-19.mp3

Stop whenever they take the first caller or so, but they pretty much address how and why you are wrong here almost exactly.

If you can't understand why you are wrong, let me know, and I will step you through it.