Teachers

[George Gervin's Afro]

OK, not incompetent. The teachers must be ing stupid to take a job that requires them to work that many hours.

so from them being lazy and just wanting a paycheck...

.. now they are just stupid...

[elbamba]

No. The common misconception is since there is no school in summer, teachers get 3 months off. Unless, like most teachers, you work another couple of weeks at the end of school, then take a few weeks off unless you work a second job over the summer, then a month before school starts, you're back in the classroom getting everything ready for the next year. I usually got 3 weeks if I was lucky. It was different for me because, as a band director, we always had summer band a month prior to school starting. But when I'd show up at school, there were always teachers in their rooms getting things in place for the coming year.

Three weeks? Its like you get a free sick week.

In all seriousness, I have given a lot of time to my son's school this year assisting with field trips and other activities. His teacher puts up with a lot of crap outside of teaching, which is difficult enough. Education is the one place I don't mind my tax dollars going.

[TeyshaBlue]

Three weeks? Its like you get a free sick week.

In all seriousness, I have given a lot of time to my son's school this year assisting with field trips and other activities. His teacher puts up with a lot of crap outside of teaching, which is difficult enough. Education is the one place I don't mind my tax dollars going.

I get 5 weeks right now in the private sector. And I'm with you on investing in education.

[TeyshaBlue]

OK, not incompetent. The teachers must be ing stupid to take a job that requires them to work that many hours.

Or maybe they feel a calling to do this.
*Protip* Anything you don't understand is not automatically ing stupid.

[DarrinS]

[DarrinS]

Kinda sucks that a really good teacher gets paid the same as a ty teacher, so long as they have the same amount of tenure.

[TeyshaBlue]

Kinda sucks that a really good teacher gets paid the same as a ty teacher, so long as they have the same amount of tenure.

In some places. In Tx, tenure is irrelevant...well, sorta. There is the whole career ladder thing that is basically more years experience = more $.

[RandomGuy]

teachers & cops (as well as most so-called public servants) have been paid too much for too long. they also live in the same cruel world we all live in and when there's a crisis in our economy, i don't see no reason why they should be sheltered from the whole mess, though i respect those people as much as everyone does.

Define "too much".

Both professions have very high turnover, which strongly suggests that they are not paid enough from an economic standpoint. That turnover, further, results in ultimately higher costs.

Further, do you want your average high-school graduate to teach kids that will be our future bosses and/or employees? History is littered with the wrecks of countries that fail to invest in their own human capital. The US has benefitted from other countries neglect in education from immigrants coming here for precisely that and staying.

[RandomGuy]

I believe PERS has a guaranteed 8% rate on the fund at the expense of the future tax payers. They have changed it enough over the years, hard to keep up with how the tax payers keep getting screwed.

Sigh. That as painfully ignorant, and hurtz ma brain.

The 8% return was their long term investment return, goober, not the growth in benefits "at the expense of future tax payers". The dingleberry waving his hands around took issue with what amounts to a long term average rate of return.

Speaking of which, it looks youran away from your statement.


http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...=1#post6586853

Give you one more chance to defend it, before I book mark it and add it to my siggy and rub your nose in it.

[mrsmaalox]

Some offenses under the STAAR test.. also, not being trained and certified to restrain a child who is out of control in the classroom...

Well the only offense under the STAAR test would be to assist in cheating or not adhering to the policy for the administration of the test; jail time sounds a bit extreme for that but it would definitely qualify to be reviewed for not fulfilling the job requirement-----just as in any other profession.

Training and certification of their employees to restrain out of control kids is the school district's responsibility, not the teacher's. The teacher is personally liable if they are neglectful in carrying out the district's policy for controlling a student, which results in physical harm to any person-----still really not unique to the teaching profession.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Well the only offense under the STAAR test would be to assist in cheating or not adhering to the policy for the administration of the test; jail time sounds a bit extreme for that but it would definitely qualify to be reviewed for not fulfilling the job requirement-----just as in any other profession.

Training and certification of their employees to restrain out of control kids is the school district's responsibility, not the teacher's. The teacher is personally liable if they are neglectful in carrying out the district's policy for controlling a student, which results in physical harm to any person-----still really not unique to the teaching profession.

my wife is the staff member on her campus that is trained to physically restrain children. She does it all of the time.

Of course her friend , who teaches kids who have issues, gets regualry spat on, she cleans desks, floors, etc. that have urine or feces on them.


I guess she's just ing stupid for taking that job..

WC

[mrsmaalox]

my wife is the staff member on her campus that is trained to physically restrain children. She does it all of the time.

Of course her friend , who teaches kids who have issues, gets regualry spat on, she cleans desks, floors, etc. that have urine or feces on them.


I guess she's just ing stupid for taking that job..

WC

Yup, my neighbor is a special ed teacher but now she is the one in Judson ISD who trains/certifies schools' special ed staff for these "take downs". It's serious business, exactly the kind of responsibility carried by psych ward and jail staff, but with a much more delicate population.

[tlongII]

Sigh. That as painfully ignorant, and hurtz ma brain.

The 8% return was their long term investment return, goober, not the growth in benefits "at the expense of future tax payers". The dingleberry waving his hands around took issue with what amounts to a long term average rate of return.

Speaking of which, it looks youran away from your statement.


http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...=1#post6586853

Give you one more chance to defend it, before I book mark it and add it to my siggy and rub your nose in it.

If there is a guaranteed 8% return on LT investments and they fail to meet that growth rate how do you think it gets funded?

[RandomGuy]

If there is a guaranteed 8% return on LT investments and they fail to meet that growth rate how do you think it gets funded?

Is it "guaranteed"?

That is the word Mr. Starkle used. I didn't see anything in the financials that implied that it was written in stone or backed up by anybody.

I think it gets funded by cutting benefits, if there is a substantial enough shortfall. In the end the retirees will eat no small amount of any shortage.

To get to an honest answer to your question, yes, there may have to be tax rate increases to cover shortfalls as well.

I imagine long before then any caps on the reqeuired employee contributions will be raised though, meaning the employees themselves will be funding it.

Personally, I have no problem with forcing people to save more. I do not think that the majority of Americans save what they need to, and the nanny state will have to come to the rescue and do some overreaching, over the howls of the tea party jackwagons who would prefer people starving in the streets and bleeding to death in emergency rooms becuase they committed the crime of not having enough money.

[101A]

In the town I live in, teachers starting pay (BA/BS is education or other field with an education certification), 1st year teacher's salaries are just over $60K. Steps are incremental yearly beyond that, and currently a teacher with 20 years in the District (or equivalent experience) makes just over 95K. A teacher with a masters degree makes an additional 6K annually, and another 6 for a Ph.D. There is a local 16,000 student university. The District will pay for teachers to get the additional degrees from that University. In turn, the University offers convenient classes (2 hours per week for 4 semesters - much of it online instruction), for teachers who wish to attain those additional degrees (both M.Ed, as well as Ph.D. Ed.). Additionally, the teachers are allowed 3 weeks personal time, and 3 weeks sick leave each year - and those accrue if they are not used; and a teacher at retirement can cash those in (although many simply take whatever accrual time they have at the end of their careers, prior to retirement - usually a couple of school years - in order to get additional "steps", which increases the retirement pension they will receive; 90% of final base pay on average). The teacher's also do pay into, and receive Social Security.

All of those numbers increase annually by 3 - 4% depending on the CBA, which is negotiated every 4 years (NEXT summer it is up for negotiation).

Yesterday was a school board election primary. All candidates cross filed, so the primary is, essentially, the general election. The board that will negotiate that contract will contain two spouses of active teachers in the district, the most recently retired superintendent, and the most recently retired director of math curriclum, as well as one more retired teacher. There are 9 total members of the board. I don't anticipate the board being particularly adversarial with the Union during negotiations.

I don't know specifics about other places, but that is the package teachers in our town currently earn.

Regarding police; the Sheriff here makes 55K.

[boutons_deux]

the Sheriff here makes 55K.

what are his qualifications? prerequisites for the job?

[LnGrrrR]

Serious?

I thought the law changed such that it was illegal to class non management positions as salary only.

If a teacher has to work 80 hrs to get the job done, they must be incompetent...

If someone who owns a business works 80 hrs a week, it shows how motivated he is to being successful.

If a teacher does it, he's incompetent.

[TeyshaBlue]

If someone who owns a business works 80 hrs a week, it shows how motivated he is to being successful.

If a teacher does it, he's incompetent.

and stoopid.

[101A]

what are his qualifications? prerequisites for the job?

Elected Position

[boutons_deux]

Kinda sucks that a really good teacher gets paid the same as a ty teacher, so long as they have the same amount of tenure.

CEOs get bonuses of $10Ms whether the company and/or stock does great or crappy

[tlongII]

Is it "guaranteed"?

That is the word Mr. Starkle used. I didn't see anything in the financials that implied that it was written in stone or backed up by anybody.

I think it gets funded by cutting benefits, if there is a substantial enough shortfall. In the end the retirees will eat no small amount of any shortage.

To get to an honest answer to your question, yes, there may have to be tax rate increases to cover shortfalls as well.

I imagine long before then any caps on the reqeuired employee contributions will be raised though, meaning the employees themselves will be funding it.

Personally, I have no problem with forcing people to save more. I do not think that the majority of Americans save what they need to, and the nanny state will have to come to the rescue and do some overreaching, over the howls of the tea party jackwagons who would prefer people starving in the streets and bleeding to death in emergency rooms becuase they committed the crime of not having enough money.

Actually what happens is that the state government cuts other services in order to cover the shortfall. Essentially to get these services to their previous levels taxes would need to be increased though. My understanding is that these returns are guaranteed as well. If I get a chance I'll try to find do entation of it.

[Wild Cobra]

Sigh. That as painfully ignorant, and hurtz ma brain.

You are the ignorant one.

I live in Oregon. I have been hearing of the ups and downs of the system for decades.

your holier than though at ude on you think you're and expert on because you find a link on the internet.

I just verified my facts. When the PERS fund does not generate 8%, the employees are still guaranteed the 8% growth rate for their retirement. That's why I said "at the expense of the taxpayer"

[Wild Cobra]

If someone who owns a business works 80 hrs a week, it shows how motivated he is to being successful.

If a teacher does it, he's incompetent.

How about stupid, for being a willing slave to the system. How about stupid for not finding better employment.

Why are teachers "en led?"

Why is anyone "en led?"

that loser at ude.

[Wild Cobra]

If someone who owns a business works 80 hrs a week, it shows how motivated he is to being successful.

If a teacher does it, he's incompetent.

How about stupid, for being a willing slave to the system. How about stupid for not finding better employment.

Why are teachers "en led?"

Why is anyone "en led?"

that loser at ude.

[clambake]

this......coming from:

a welfare suckling

to an army suckling

to a union suckling.







congrats. you hit the trifecta!