OT: I want my country back....

[jag]

I wish the troll forum were still around so Mouse would have a place to talk to himself all day.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

What cracks me up is that teabaggers' defense is "we have libertarians too, it's not just neocons and Jeebo s!" yet they all think actual libertarians are hippie liberals and have tried to force them out of the GOP....

Tbh tea partiers are nothing more than the 30% of America that's dirt poor, uneducated, gullible, religious, etc., and thus can be manipulated whichever direction corporations/plutocrats want them to go. That's why it's easy for the ultra-rich to control America, they can immediately get 30% of the population behind any cause they want without breaking a sweat. Also that 30% lives in mostly rural states that are overrepresented in Washington.

Ironically most people in that 30% are also in the 47% Mitt Romney openly said he doesn't care about

[midnightpulp]

Tbh tea partiers are nothing more than the 30% of America that's dirt poor, uneducated, gullible, religious, etc., and thus can be manipulated whichever direction corporations/plutocrats want them to go. That's why it's easy for the ultra-rich to control America, they can immediately get 30% of the population behind any cause they want without breaking a sweat. Also that 30% lives in mostly rural states that are overrepresented in Washington.

Ironically most people in that 30% are also in the 47% Mitt Romney openly said he doesn't care about

And on the other side of the spectrum, leftist leaders can get any number of lib "occupiers" behind their cause by politicizing social justice causes and pimping class warfare.

I can't remember a time in American politics where supporters on both sides were this completely re ed.

[DMX7]

They want to go back to 1845 and the days of the slave trade.

[midnightpulp]

My initial was response to you was nothing short of sincere. Again, your continued signing of your posts is appreciated as it eliminates any confusion associated with the iden y of the original author of the contents therein.


-ClingingMars

You were CM?

[PingPong]

When I saw the le of this thread, I thought the op was some mexican asking for the Texas back to them.

[jag]

You were CM?

ABSOLUTELY not. He used to always end his re ed posts by signing his name.

[midnightpulp]

ABSOLUTELY not. He used to always end his re ed posts by signing his name.

Wonder what happened to him?

Not too familiar with his work (re ation), but I remember seeing his handle on the 4chan sports board and then bringing that greentext >implying bull over here, much like IronPedocan does.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

And on the other side of the spectrum, leftist leaders can get any number of lib "occupiers" behind their cause by politicizing social justice causes and pimping class warfare.

I can't remember a time in American politics where supporters on both sides were this completely re ed.

That's not the problem as much as it's liberals who think Obama/Pelosi/Reid actually give a about income inequality/social justice (the other problem with the occupy movement was how easy of a target it was with newly graduated liberal arts majors complaining about how the economy has no need for liberal arts majors). If "liberal" politicians actually gave a about the middle class like they did before Clinton came along and made the Democratic party a moderate version of the Republican party things might actually be better.

The 50 year period from 1930-1980 where our government worked for the people and focused on strengthening the middle class was basically a total fluke. Outside of that time period America has been a plutocracy where government is focused on strengthening the rich and ing over the average American. It's simply too easy for the ultra-rich to trick the masses into believing bull like supply-side economics and most importantly conning people into thinking right wing policies open up opportunity for everyone to become rich.

[King Nupe]

When I saw the le of this thread, I thought the op was some mexican asking for the Texas back to them.

lol

[baseline bum]

LOL idiots always thinking foreign aid is the major expense in this country, not the military budget, not medicare, not social security.

[King Nupe]

Lol @ people actually believing "trickle down economics" works. That's like a person wiping a few crumbs after dinner on the floor for the dog to eat, and people actually wanted that

[King Nupe]

LOL idiots always thinking foreign aid is the major expense in this country, not the military budget, not medicare, not social security.

Yes brother, but I'm sure you agree with me that there are people in America that could use aid. Shouldn't we take care of our own first? Why give it to N.Korea, when they will STILL starve the people

[midnightpulp]

That's not the problem as much as it's liberals who think Obama/Pelosi/Reid actually give a about income inequality/social justice (the other problem with the occupy movement was how easy of a target it was with newly graduated liberal arts majors complaining about how the economy has no need for liberal arts majors). If "liberal" politicians actually gave a about the middle class like they did before Clinton came along and made the Democratic party a moderate version of the Republican party things might actually be better.

The 50 year period from 1930-1980 where our government worked for the people and focused on strengthening the middle class was basically a total fluke. Outside of that time period America has been a plutocracy where government is focused on strengthening the rich and ing over the average American. It's simply too easy for the ultra-rich to trick the masses into believing bull like supply-side economics and most importantly conning people into thinking right wing policies open up opportunity for everyone to become rich.

A lot that also had to do with the fact the United States was the biggest manufacturer and exporter of goods during that time. We were a high rent version of China, which was a good thing.

But no economy can be industrial forever. As the economy becomes more globalized and with developing nations offering cheap labor, strong industrial economies, as the US was during the mid-20th century, eventually evolve into service economies. Alvin Toffler in his book "Future Shock" predicted exactly this for the United States.

I think the regrowth of the middle-class will be spearheaded by Gen-Yers coming of age and landing skilled tech jobs. Your software programmers, systems analysts, IT guys will be the new "blue collar" class of the United States.

Good article:

Many of the service sector jobs being created are actually high-skilled and well-paying, said Francisco J. Buera, a professor at UCLA’s department of economics, who published a paper last year, “The Rise of the Service Economy," arguing that low-skilled service jobs have been shrinking while high-skilled service jobs have been growing over the last decades. Health care and financial services jobs have grown, he said, and even jobs in places such as restaurants have gotten more specialized – think chefs rather than cashiers.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar...-jobs-20130308

[PingPong]

I think the regrowth of the middle-class will be spearheaded by Gen-Yers coming of age and landing skilled tech jobs. Your software programmers, systems analysts, IT guys will be the new "blue collar" class of the United States.

Sorry, but most of the software industry will be, if not already using the outsourcing. The companies hire some software programmers from India and they wor from there, by the internet

[rascal]

I'm not mad. I think everybody of all political persuasions are idiots. I just think liberals are the worst for their inability to do simple math.

ter McGee

Tea party( not even a true party, just a coined phrase from conservative talk radio) Conservatives are idiots. Their big selling point of small govt. is unrealistic.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

A lot that also had to do with the fact the United States was the biggest manufacturer and exporter of goods during that time. We were a high rent version of China, which was a good thing.

Right, and that got destroyed once politicians like Reagan and Clinton started to give their corporate buddies free trade so they could export jobs with ease.

But no economy can be industrial forever. As the economy becomes more globalized and with developing nations offering cheap labor, strong industrial economies, as the US was during the mid-20th century, eventually evolve into service economies. Alvin Toffler in his book "Future Shock" predicted exactly this for the United States.

I think the regrowth of the middle-class will be spearheaded by Gen-Yers coming of age and landing skilled tech jobs. Your software programmers, systems analysts, IT guys will be the new "blue collar" class of the United States.

Good article:

Many of the service sector jobs being created are actually high-skilled and well-paying, said Francisco J. Buera, a professor at UCLA’s department of economics, who published a paper last year, “The Rise of the Service Economy," arguing that low-skilled service jobs have been shrinking while high-skilled service jobs have been growing over the last decades. Health care and financial services jobs have grown, he said, and even jobs in places such as restaurants have gotten more specialized – think chefs rather than cashiers.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar...-jobs-20130308

Yeah, and while low-skill jobs have been shrinking, so has the middle class's purchasing power.

What's described above is also a pipe dream because of how much education has disintegrated in this country particularly in the area of math/science which is kind of important in the technology sector. A country that wants to be a service economy with high-skilled service jobs as its backbone needs to be making the huge investments in education we're not making.

[midnightpulp]

Sorry, but most of the software industry will be, if not already using the outsourcing. The companies hire some software programmers from India and they wor from there, by the internet

That may be, but a business still needs these type of specialists "on site." And as workplaces become more computerized, demand for these jobs will grow.

[JohnnyMax]

LOL idiots always thinking foreign aid is the major expense in this country, not the military budget, not medicare, not social security.

You dont like free stuff?
.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The underlying problem to basically everything is that America (and the world for that matter) is overcrowded with people while our economy is dependent on growth. Our population needs to shrink and our economy can't be reliant on annual GDP growth like it is now. Unfortunately religion motivates people (particularly minorities) to reproduce like jack rabbits.

[dbestpro]

Medicare, medicaid and social security alone costs more than is collected in taxes. We borrow for everything else. Current tax structures are designed to keep middle income from becoming upper income. Small business is being crushed trying to compete in the one size fits all corporate taxing system. The IRS is has lost any credibility it had.

The solution is to move to a tax system that eliminates tax breaks, and makes sure that everyone has skin in the game without dumping the burden on the poor.
The way to do this is to go to a progressive sales tax and dump income tax. People should no longer be punished for working. The more a person spends the higher the tax. The less a person spends the lower the tax. No more rich people paying zero tax and even poor people would have skin in the game even if it is only a 1% tax.

[midnightpulp]

Right, and that got destroyed once politicians like Reagan and Clinton started to give their corporate buddies free trade so they could export jobs with ease.


Yeah, and while low-skill jobs have been shrinking, so has the middle class's purchasing power.

What's described above is also a pipe dream because of how much education has disintegrated in this country particularly in the area of math/science which is kind of important in the technology sector. A country that wants to be a service economy with high-skilled service jobs as its backbone needs to be making the huge investments in education we're not making.

Agreed. But the onus is also on people to seek out that education.

Too many people "follow their dreams" and learn completely useless in college. I also think the concept of the "trade school" needs to be back en vogue. But so many people think they're en led to the "college experience" because they've been raised to think they're a special little snowflake with untapped genius who can do anything they put their mind to.

Tell an 18 year old kid he's going to a trade school and watch him projectile vomit. The harsh reality is not everyone is intelligent enough to earn an MBA or Engineering degree. But I do think everyone is capable of learning the necessary skills to navigate a service economy oriented around technology jobs, just like everyone in the 50's was capable of working on an assembly line. And for that, people need to start thinking more practical.

Back in the day, it was accepted by the majority that they were going to enter the workforce after high school. College was reserved for the elite and the "smart" people. Sure, the job landscape has changed and most decent paying jobs do require a college degree of some kind, whereas back then all you needed was a strong back and a good work ethic to land a job at some factory, but I do think there needs to be a return to that kind of pragmatism: Graduate from high school. Go to a trade school. Learn a craft. Enter workforce.

Instead of: Graduate from high school. Go to an expensive university with ambitions of being the next Steve Jobs or Mark Zuckerberg or Steven Spielberg or Andy Warhol or some other once in a generation luminary. Learn nothing because you switched majors from computer science to art history because you no longer feel like being the next Bill Gates and now you want to be the next Van Gogh. Finally graduate. Six figures in debt. Enter Starbucks.

[PingPong]

The underlying problem to basically everything is that America (and the world for that matter) is overcrowded with people while our economy is dependent on growth. Our population needs to shrink and our economy can't be reliant on annual GDP growth like it is now. Unfortunately religion motivates people (particularly minorities) to reproduce like jack rabbits.

Shrinking means ageeing the population wich means loss of productivity and inventivity. Japan is already facing this issue and they are losing to the Korean compe ion, younger and creative. You need to ensure better education for the bottom of the society in order to get more skilled workers, productivity and consumption wich makes the economy grow. Politics about birth control to the economically vulnerable is good too, but just to balance the demographics. If the number of the poor increase much more than the middle class, there are no way to make the economy and the fiscal doing well

[Clipper Nation]

Tbh, the idea of college as an en lement/requirement also comes from teachers, counselors, parents, and business owners all stressing the importance of a college degree, tbh..... people don't want the stigma attached to not going to college especially when finding a job is hard enough even with a degree.....

[Slutter McGee]

Tea party( not even a true party, just a coined phrase from conservative talk radio) Conservatives are idiots. Their big selling point of small govt. is unrealistic.

And the selling point of big government is what? That it gets out of control thats what. Look at any country where socialism has been "successful" and what do they have in common? we subsidize their ing military.

Sincerely,

ter McGee