OT: I want my country back....

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

And the selling point of big government is what? That it gets out of control thats what. Look at any country where socialism has been "successful" and what do they have in common? we subsidize their ing military.

Sincerely,

ter McGee

Yeah, those re ed socialists. We go into debt subsidizing their military while they have excess tax revenue to spend domestically to improve their country.

The joke is totally on them, not the country going bankrupt subsidizing their defense.

[midnightpulp]

Yeah, those re ed socialists. We go into debt subsidizing their military while they have excess tax revenue to spend domestically to improve their country.

The joke is totally on them, not the country going bankrupt subsidizing their defense.

Interesting thing is a lot of those countries perceived to be more socialist than the United States, are actually economically freer.

http://www.heritage.org/index/

When I used to talk politics a lot more (on another forum), which was at the time of the 900 billion dollar bailout, I remember a poster telling a Bush supporting Neocon: "And once Bush authorized those bailouts, the United States became the most socialized country in the history of mankind."

Stone cold truth.

Monopoly "capitalism" is essentially socialism for the rich, "distributing" the wealth from the people to the government to big business.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Agreed. But the onus is also on people to seek out that education.

When high schools require 2 years of math and 4 years of English, you can't expect people to properly seek out a technical education in a field like IT or programming. High school education in this country is the reason people major in bull like art history, they get a completely warped view about what skills are important in the work force.

Too many people "follow their dreams" and learn completely useless in college. I also think the concept of the "trade school" needs to be back en vogue. But so many people think they're en led to the "college experience" because they've been raised to think they're a special little snowflake with untapped genius who can do anything they put their mind to.

They don't follow their dreams, they follow the bull idea high school gave to them that reading comprehension and poetry analysis are really important tools to have.

And trade schools were never en vogue. There's never been a time where people were lining up to learn how to be a plumber so they could snake septic tanks for the rest of their lives. It's always been considered the ty thing people who can't make it to college do. The only reason more people than ever do college is because of how poor most people without a degree are in this country.

Tell an 18 year old kid he's going to a trade school and watch him projectile vomit.

Yeah, he should be jumping for joy at the thought of being an auto mechanic with wages.

The harsh reality is not everyone is intelligent enough to earn an MBA or Engineering degree.

Right, which is why there needs to be a living wage available for uneducated people.

But I do think everyone is capable of learning the necessary skills to navigate a service economy oriented around technology jobs, just like everyone in the 50's was capable of working on an assembly line.

When you wrote that, did you have any idea how re ed the comparison of technology jobs to assembly line jobs sounded?

Back in the day, it was accepted by the majority that they were going to enter the workforce after high school.

Back in the day, people who entered the workforce after high school had better options than Walmart or Target.

I do think there needs to be a return to that kind of pragmatism: Graduate from high school. Go to a trade school. Learn a craft. Enter workforce.

Why do you act like this is returning to anything? There are only so many jobs out there for specialized crafts, that's why service economies are never as strong as manufacturing economies. The average person is always going to have some mundane, routine job that doesn't require any specialized skill, if that job doesn't pay well then the middle class is gonna be weak.

lol thinking that trade schools like Devry are the untapped resource America needs to seek out

Instead of: Graduate from high school. Go to an expensive university with ambitions of being the next Steve Jobs or Mark Zuckerberg or Steven Spielberg or Andy Warhol or some other once in a generation luminary. Learn nothing because you switched majors from computer science to art history because you no longer feel like being the next Bill Gates and now you want to be the next Van Gogh. Finally graduate. Six figures in debt. Enter Starbucks.

If high schools gave people the proper foundation they needed, they wouldn't be majoring in art history like they do.

[Slutter McGee]

Yeah, those re ed socialists. We go into debt subsidizing their military while they have excess tax revenue to spend domestically to improve their country.

The joke is totally on them, not the country going bankrupt subsidizing their defense.

Yeah dip . I wasn't arguing subsidizing their military is a good thing. I was arguing that you liberal's wet dream of drones killing conservatives and an all powerful federal government is not economically sustainable.

Sincerely,

ter McGee

[midnightpulp]

When high schools require 2 years of math and 4 years of English, you can't expect people to properly seek out a technical education in a field like IT or programming. High school education in this country is the reason people major in bull like art history, they get a completely warped view about what skills are important in the work force.

I don't disagree with that. But people have become completely deluded concerning their potential, because from day one, parents, and society at large, have instilled in them this idea that they can do anything if they "put their mind to it." Maybe that mindset wasn't prevalent in your household but this kind of wishful thinking has been an epidemic among members of our generation.

Such beliefs also have created a generation of young people who believe every dream is attainable but who aren't prepared to deal with discovering it isn't so.


http://www.amazon.com/Generation-Ame.../dp/0743276981

They don't follow their dreams, they follow the bull idea high school gave to them that reading comprehension and poetry analysis are really important tools to have.

See above.

And trade schools were never en vogue. There's never been a time where people were lining up to learn how to be a plumber so they could snake septic tanks for the rest of their lives. It's always been considered the ty thing people who can't make it to college do. The only reason more people than ever do college is because of how poor most people without a degree are in this country.

I'd be willing to bet trade schools had a higher rate of enrollment in the 50's and 60's than proper 4 year universities. And my point is more people need to accept the fact they are going to be doing a " ty thing" for the rest of their lives. Although, I don't really see how being a carpenter, electrician, or welder, earning a solid middle-class income is a " ty thing." I get that you're an egalitarian, but not everyone is capable of, lucky enough, or intelligent enough to reach the top 10% of the income bracket. You keep bemoaning the destruction of the middle class, but yet you recoil at the idea of people learning to be plumbers, welders, mechanics, electricians, etc, which are typically middle class (and in many cases upper-middle class) jobs with good benefits.

Yeah, he should be jumping for joy at the thought of being an auto mechanic with wages.

See above. A car mechanic will earn a person a middle class wage. Is middle class in your mind 100K a year and above or something?

Right, which is why there needs to be a living wage available for uneducated people.

And uneducated people are perfectly capable of being plumbers, carpenters, mechanics, welders, which pay much more than a living wage.

When you wrote that, did you have any idea how re ed the comparison of technology jobs to assembly line jobs sounded?

How is the comparison re ed? Your mid-level tech job is no more demanding than an assembly line job in the 50's, especially given the fact how computer literate an average young person is today.

Back in the day, people who entered the workforce after high school had better options than Walmart or Target.

Agreed, but that wasn't my point. My point was that young people need to start thinking more practical and less wishful.

Why do you act like this is returning to anything? There are only so many jobs out there for specialized crafts, that's why service economies are never as strong as manufacturing economies. The average person is always going to have some mundane, routine job that doesn't require any specialized skill, if that job doesn't pay well then the middle class is gonna be weak.

lol thinking that trade schools like Devry are the untapped resource America needs to seek out

Trade school enrollment has been increasing:

As factories crank up, they have an urgent need for high-skilled workers such as machinists and tool-and-die makers knowledgeable in computers.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/07/31/news...ools/index.htm

Also from the article:

Unlike 20 years ago, manufacturing today requires workers who are computer literate and skilled in computer-aided design and engineering, said Sandra Krebsbach, executive director of the American Technical Education Association.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I don't disagree with that. But people have become completely deluded concerning their potential, because from day one, parents, and society at large, have instilled in them this idea that they can do anything if they "put their mind to it." Maybe that mindset wasn't prevalent in your household but this kind of wishful thinking has been an epidemic among members of our generation.

Such beliefs also have created a generation of young people who believe every dream is attainable but who aren't prepared to deal with discovering it isn't so.


http://www.amazon.com/Generation-Americans-Confident-Assertive-En led/dp/074327698

People have become deluded since the American dream was bas ized by your boy Reagan in the 80s because of the plutocratic agenda to trick people into thinking they have a chance to be rich causing them to vote against their own best interests. The 80s was when shows like Dynasty and Dallas started replacing sitcoms about upper middle class families so people would start craving the lavish lifestyle they saw on TV and vote for the candidate who said, "Deregulate everything and you can get rich too!"

People have also gotten deluded because of the income inequality and how much better it is these days to be rich.

I'd be willing to bet trade schools had a higher rate of enrollment in the 50's and 60's than proper 4 year universities.

And I'd be willing to bet that's pure speculation.

And my point is more people need to accept the fact they are going to be doing a " ty thing" for the rest of their lives.

They'd be more accepting if that ty thing if high school prepared them for it rather than waste 4 years teaching them poetry about how big of an orgasm Robert Frost got the first time he took it up the ass.

One specific example of the Great Gatsby. It's a worthless piece of book that everyone needs to read in high school that totally teaches people to covet the lavish, ultra rich lifestyle.

Although, I don't really see how being a carpenter, electrician, or welder, earning a solid middle-class income is a " ty thing."

If all the dumbasses in college now decided they were gonna become a carpenter or electrician the wages of those workers would go down significantly because the supply of them would shoot up. There isn't a big enough demand for those types of workers to be the backbone of the economy.

I get that you're an egalitarian, but not everyone is capable of, lucky enough, or intelligent enough to reach the top 10% of the income bracket. You keep bemoaning the destruction of the middle class, but yet you recoil at the idea of people learning to be plumbers, welders, mechanics, electricians, etc, which are typically middle class (and in many cases upper-middle class) jobs with good benefits.

Because those jobs can only make up a small percentage of the middle class since there simply isn't a big enough demand for them. The average worker is always going to have a low skilled mundane job.

I'm also only recoiling at the idea of people anxiously seeking the lifestyle of a plumber.

See above. A car mechanic will earn a person a middle class wage. Is middle class in your mind 100K a year and above or something?

Again, I was simply making fun of how impractical it is to teach people to dump money into a trade school to be an auto mechanic. A well paying job right out of high school doesn't require grooming someone to pursue that career

And uneducated people are perfectly capable of being plumbers, carpenters, mechanics, welders, which pay much more than a living wage.

No, they need to get educated at a trade school. Are you suggesting federally funded trade schools (honest question)?

How is the comparison re ed? Your mid-level tech job is no more demanding than an assembly line job in the 50's, especially given the fact how computer literate an average young person is today.

A mid-level tech job requires skill and some intelligence. An assembly line job in the 50s had no-skill and had fair demands because of collective bargaining. The average young person in America also gets his/her pushed in by young people in India/China when it comes to technology and computers, and that's not because India has world class trade schools like Devry. It's because their K-12 education kicks the living out of ours.

Agreed, but that wasn't my point. My point was that young people need to start thinking more practical and less wishful.

If high school actually groomed young people for the real world and not the Great Gatsby utopia we'd see more practical young people.

Trade school enrollment has been increasing:

As factories crank up, they have an urgent need for high-skilled workers such as machinists and tool-and-die makers knowledgeable in computers.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/07/31/news...ools/index.htm

Also from the article:

Unlike 20 years ago, manufacturing today requires workers who are computer literate and skilled in computer-aided design and engineering, said Sandra Krebsbach, executive director of the American Technical Education Association.

This is exactly why I say high school is the problem. It should be grooming people for computer schools/machine work/etc. It shouldn't be wasting so much time on impractical bull .

[midnightpulp]

People have become deluded since the American dream was bas ized by your boy Reagan in the 80s because of the plutocratic agenda to trick people into thinking they have a chance to be rich causing them to vote against their own best interests. The 80s was when shows like Dynasty and Dallas started replacing sitcoms about upper middle class families so people would start craving the lavish lifestyle they saw on TV and vote for the candidate who said, "Deregulate everything and you can get rich too!"

People have also gotten deluded because of the income inequality and how much better it is these days to be rich.

My boy Reagan. How on earth did you glean that? Just because I'm not a drooling at the mouth socialist lib doesn't mean I support the GOP and any of its neo-conservative manifestations. I despise the modern American Left and the modern American Right just about equally, as both are simply different shades of neo-conservatism.

And I'd be willing to bet that's pure speculation.

Of course it is. I never implied otherwise.

They'd be more accepting if that ty thing if high school prepared them for it rather than waste 4 years teaching them poetry about how big of an orgasm Robert Frost got the first time he took it up the ass.

Agreed.

If all the dumbasses in college now decided they were gonna become a carpenter or electrician the wages of those workers would go down significantly because the supply of them would shoot up. There isn't a big enough demand for those types of workers to be the backbone of the economy.

I took your " ty thing" comment to mean that wanting to be a craftsmen should be beneath a person.

Because those jobs can only make up a small percentage of the middle class since there simply isn't a big enough demand for them. The average worker is always going to have a low skilled mundane job.

And your argument is what? That those low skilled jobs should pay more? That people need to become better educated to give themselves more upward mobility? I agree with the latter point. But the high-school-to-university model is obviously not working as well as it should to prepare the average person for the workforce, so we both agree they need an overhaul. And I completely agree that highschools need to become more like de facto trade schools, as what is happened in New York:

In 2008, New York City's Department of Education began to rethink vocational training in high schools.[15][16] Mayor Bloomberg in his State of the City 2008 address said, "This year, we're going to begin dramatically transforming how high school students prepare for technical careers in a number of growing fields.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...loomberg&st=cs

Again, I was simply making fun of how impractical it is to teach people to dump money into a trade school to be an auto mechanic. A well paying job right out of high school doesn't require grooming someone to pursue that career

So you're implying the training to be (or the option to train as) an auto mechanic should begin at the high school level or earlier? How is going to a trade school to learn a specialized craft "impractical?" What's impractical is going to a 30K per year university and graduating with a degree that isn't as valuable as the skills of that plumber whose lifestyle you're recoiling at.

No, they need to get educated at a trade school. Are you suggesting federally funded trade schools (honest question)?

Already kind of happening through TAACCCT https://www.cfda.gov/?s=program&mode...8aa5475d134439

A mid-level tech job requires skill and some intelligence. An assembly line job in the 50s had no-skill and had fair demands because of collective bargaining. The average young person in America also gets his/her pushed in by young people in India/China when it comes to technology and computers, and that's not because India has world class trade schools like Devry. It's because their K-12 education kicks the living out of ours.

This is exactly why I say high school is the problem. It should be grooming people for computer schools/machine work/etc. It shouldn't be wasting so much time on impractical bull .

Agreed.

[King Nupe]

I've started a Monster thread....

[baseline bum]

Gemany does pretty well with separate vocational and college prep sequences in their high schools. Our high schools are because they try to shoe-horn everyone into college prep and then have to water it down to when half the students can't keep their heads above water in a real college-prep sequence. Germany is smart to put the students who can't cut it in academic work in vocational programs so that their school years amount to more than just a big jerkoff and capped off with a McJob.

[midnightpulp]

Gemany does pretty well with separate vocational and college prep sequences in their high schools. Our high schools are because they try to shoe-horn everyone into college prep and then have to water it down to when half the students can't keep their heads above water in a real college-prep sequence. Germany is smart to put the students who can't cut it in academic work in vocational programs so that their school years amount to more than just a big jerkoff and capped off with a McJob.

Imagine the outcry if we did that here.

"What!!? You're saying my precious Timmy isn't smart enough to be in those college prep courses! No way. My Timmy is going to be a neurosurgeon and not some blue collar slob!"

And if the kid happens to be black, all would break loose.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Imagine the outcry if we did that here.

"What!!? You're saying my precious Timmy isn't smart enough to be in those college prep courses! No way. My Timmy is going to be a neurosurgeon and not some blue collar slob!"

And if the kid happens to be black, all would break loose.

Again you can blame that on plutocratic Republicans who bas ized the American dream so re s would vote to destroy the middle class thinking they'd get rich.

Germany also has a large manufacturing economy and an annual trade surplus. They're in no way the service-based economy Bill Clinton claimed America could be.

[Trainwreck2100]

I've started a Monster thread....

that's what happens when you post in a forum where your threads don't get killed for simply being troll threads

[baseline bum]

Germany breaks all the American neolib rules. They have a strongly unionized labor force that makes good wages, they get longer vacations than Americans, they have universal health coverage, and yet with all these things that would supposedly kill our economy they have one of the strongest manufacturing bases in the world.

[Trainwreck2100]

Again you can blame that on plutocratic Republicans who bas ized the American dream so re s would vote to destroy the middle class thinking they'd get rich.

Not gonna lie son I was absolutely with the TEA party when they formed originally. A group of citizens banding together because they feel their government has gone the wrong way economically. And then they went the wrong way by letting stupid people into their club

[ElNono]

Germany breaks all the American neolib rules. They have a strongly unionized labor force that makes good wages, they get longer vacations than Americans, they have universal health coverage, and yet with all these things that would supposedly kill our economy they have one of the strongest manufacturing bases in the world.

Your eyes are too far apart. Nose is definitely crooked. The shape of your face is not aesthetically pleasing at all. You look like a 3/10 with make up in the photos I've seen. I don't even want to imagine what you look like without make up. I actually just threw up in my mouth, just thinking about it.Your head is too big (although that may be, because of your giraffe neck posture). As for your hair, lol. Seriously, do something. You look like a horse.Stare at your face for more than 5 seconds, and you will see how ugly you are. The eyes which are too far apart is what ruins/damages an already ugly face even further. Unfortunately for you, that can't be surgically fixed, lol.You arms are way too long. lol at how they hang by your sides. Kind of reminds me of lurch. As for your s, we all know there is extra padding there. Don't even let me start on your pale complexion. It only works if you look hot. Unfortunately, you do not look hot. Its hard to sum up a creature like you in one word. 'UGLY' would be unfair, since it doesn't reflect how repulsive you look. GROTESQUE is stretching it. But somewhere in between, is where you would be, on the scale of an average man.I'm sorry if my words seem a little harsh. Just so you know, I sugar coated this post as much as possible.Have a nice day.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Germany breaks all the American neolib rules. They have a strongly unionized labor force that makes good wages, they get longer vacations than Americans, they have universal health coverage, and yet with all these things that would supposedly kill our economy they have one of the strongest manufacturing bases in the world.

Yeah it's one of those successful stories of dreaded socialism "small government!" re s ignore.

[Trainwreck2100]

Your eyes are too far apart. Nose is definitely crooked. The shape of your face is not aesthetically pleasing at all. You look like a 3/10 with make up in the photos I've seen. I don't even want to imagine what you look like without make up. I actually just threw up in my mouth, just thinking about it.Your head is too big (although that may be, because of your giraffe neck posture). As for your hair, lol. Seriously, do something. You look like a horse.Stare at your face for more than 5 seconds, and you will see how ugly you are. The eyes which are too far apart is what ruins/damages an already ugly face even further. Unfortunately for you, that can't be surgically fixed, lol.You arms are way too long. lol at how they hang by your sides. Kind of reminds me of lurch. As for your s, we all know there is extra padding there. Don't even let me start on your pale complexion. It only works if you look hot. Unfortunately, you do not look hot. Its hard to sum up a creature like you in one word. 'UGLY' would be unfair, since it doesn't reflect how repulsive you look. GROTESQUE is stretching it. But somewhere in between, is where you would be, on the scale of an average man.I'm sorry if my words seem a little harsh. Just so you know, I sugar coated this post as much as possible.Have a nice day.

Why? Like seriously, why would you take the time to write something like that? I guess it's to feed off our reactions, I say after my comment no one comments or this person wins at whatever they were trying to accomplish.

[midnightpulp]

Again you can blame that on plutocratic Republicans who bas ized the American dream so re s would vote to destroy the middle class thinking they'd get rich.

And Democrat Jimmy Carter, who was quite the fan of deregulation.

That said, I'm for limited government intervention in the marketplace. Government "regulation" is a in' joke considering the lobbying power corporations have and the fact most politicians are corporate shills and the heads of regulatory bodies, like the FDA, are usually former CEOs.

That's why I don't understand the left's fascination with "regulation." The only people who benefit from a heavily regulated marketplace are those with the power and money and influence to navigate it, meaning small-to-middle sized business are at a severe disadvantage. Liberals who think that regulation will actually do anything positive for the "little guy" are as re ed as those bible belt "jeebo s" who think the wealth will "trickle down" to them.

[baseline bum]

Your eyes are too far apart. Nose is definitely crooked. The shape of your face is not aesthetically pleasing at all. You look like a 3/10 with make up in the photos I've seen. I don't even want to imagine what you look like without make up. I actually just threw up in my mouth, just thinking about it.Your head is too big (although that may be, because of your giraffe neck posture). As for your hair, lol. Seriously, do something. You look like a horse.Stare at your face for more than 5 seconds, and you will see how ugly you are. The eyes which are too far apart is what ruins/damages an already ugly face even further. Unfortunately for you, that can't be surgically fixed, lol.You arms are way too long. lol at how they hang by your sides. Kind of reminds me of lurch. As for your s, we all know there is extra padding there. Don't even let me start on your pale complexion. It only works if you look hot. Unfortunately, you do not look hot. Its hard to sum up a creature like you in one word. 'UGLY' would be unfair, since it doesn't reflect how repulsive you look. GROTESQUE is stretching it. But somewhere in between, is where you would be, on the scale of an average man.I'm sorry if my words seem a little harsh. Just so you know, I sugar coated this post as much as possible.Have a nice day.

Baby I'm sorry. You know how hard this is for me? Why you just gonna leave me like that? What did I do to you?

ing love you. I know people tell me I deserve better, but I don't want nobody else. I want you. You're all I want, babe. Please baby, please! ing love you.

ing love you babe, ing love you. Look... see this teddy bear. Please babe, please don't ing leave me like that. Please. ing love you.

Just trust me baby, trust me; I'm gonna change. This time's for real. I put this on my momma, I'm a change.

How much it ing hurts me! But I ing love you!

Please baby, come back. Please??? Ah, I ing love you.

I love you babe. You're the only girl I love. You're the only girl I truly love. You're the only girl I cried for. ing love you.

I don't deserve this, but please come back baby, please??? Please??? ing love you babe.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

And Democrat Jimmy Carter, who was quite the fan of deregulation.

What did Carter deregulate?

That said, I'm for limited government intervention in the marketplace. Government "regulation" is a in' joke considering the lobbying power corporations have and the fact most politicians are corporate shills and the heads of regulatory bodies, like the FDA, are usually former CEOs.

Government regulation wasn't a joke prior to Reagan shrinking government and handing it over to corporations. The only way for proper government regulation is the powerful government we had from 1930-1980. Yes, I know you're gonna use big scary words like socialism and wealth redistribution to say why that's a bad thing.

That's why I don't understand the left's fascination with "regulation." The only people who benefit from a heavily regulated marketplace are those with the power and money and influence to navigate it, meaning small-to-middle sized business are at a severe disadvantage. Liberals who think that regulation will actually do anything positive for the "little guy" are as re ed as those bible belt "jeebo s" who think the wealth will "trickle down" to them.

Can you show me an example of a country that successfully used your small government deregulated utopia? I'm always anxious to see all the empirical evidence backing up the laissez-faire lib tarian fantasy land where everyone regulates themselves.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

We should have the small government Somalia has. Look at all their successful Laissez-faire economics!

[baseline bum]

We should have the small government Somalia has. Look at all their successful Laissez-faire economics!

I personally enjoyed the era of small local governance in Zaire and Rwanda tbh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I personally enjoyed the era of small local governance in Zaire and Rwanda tbh.

Me too. When I look at the small governments in Africa that allow people to govern themselves versus the big evil socialist governments in Germany and Sweden, it's obvious to me how much America needs smaller government.

[ElNono]

Me too. When I look at the small governments in Africa that allow people to govern themselves versus the big evil socialist governments in Germany and Sweden, it's obvious to me how much America needs smaller government.

It's different. God has a plan for America.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

It's different. God has a plan for America.

What's different? I was admiring how successful laissez-faire economics is in Africa.