Tony Parker..

[midnightpulp]

Obviously we're homers here, but a serious question..

- Is Tony Parker the most under-appreciated player, in relation to his own generation, of all-time?..

- Is Tony Parker the best PG of the post-Jordan NBA?..

1. Pau Gasol

2. No. Chris Paul. Other candidates are Steve Nash (I know, I know) and Jason Kidd. I agree that if this version of Tony Parker was present for the past 5 or 6 years, then yes, he would be the best PG of his generation. But it wasn't. Previously, we've only been treated to flashes of what Parker is capable of. He would always threaten to break through into the "superstar" tier with a great regular season and a big playoff game(s) and then fade later on. Since the Memphis series, he hasn't "faded." He's put up 5 straight superstar worthy performances against very good compe ion that features some of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA.

He's arrived. And if he closes this series out with a good performance (he doesn't even have to win the Finals MVP), you can make a compelling argument that he's the best PG of his generation. I probably wouldn't buy it since Chris Paul has never played alongside anyone near as good as Tim Duncan or Manu Ginobili and hasn't had the luxury of playing for a coach like Gregg Popovich, but I'd definitely put him ahead of his other contemporaries.

[MannyIsGod]

Where the have you been the last 10 years then? The one major knock on Parker has always been his consistency. This is the first season that you couldn't apply that criticism to his game. Don't know how anyone could deny that perfectly obvious observation.

Go read what you typed and tell me that in the 3rd year in a row that Parker has been the center of this team how it makes any damn sense. I didn't say he'd been this good for 10 years but there's a reason he's been mentioned in the MVP talk for 3 years in a row. Where have I been? HA.

[capek]

TP has had some rough moments, no doubt. He's done an admirable job as the first option for long stretches, even before this year, but has had some short comings exposed. That doesn't mean he has not been under appreciated and that this year he hasn't shut basically everyone (including myself at times) up.

I wouldn't disagree with any of that. He's been a great player for years, but this year he's been ing elite. I've been mentioning this fact all year long, going back to December there was a stretch of games where it was the Tony Parker show in the 4th quarter of games, game after game after game, Spurs needed a basket, Tony got it. Spurs fans were always spoiled seeing Duncan do that with such consistency, they expected it from Parker as well, hence the hating directed Parker's way over the years. But this is the first year you can genuinely make that link, DRob>Duncan>Parker, and it's a ing thing of beauty as a Spurs fan and the reason we're 1-0 in the finals. And seeing this back in December, it's the reason I thought we could actually be here in June. In TP I trust.

[capek]

Go read what you typed and tell me that in the 3rd year in a row that Parker has been the center of this team how it makes any damn sense. I didn't say he'd been this good for 10 years but there's a reason he's been mentioned in the MVP talk for 3 years in a row. Where have I been? HA.

There's a difference between being the best player on a good team by default, because everyone else has fallen off, and doing what Tony did this year. You're on an island here buddy, nobody who's not a moron could take issue with anything I said.

[MannyIsGod]

Part of the problem is that the Spurs fan baseline for greatness is the type of consistency that Tim Duncan has. Most Spurs fans don't have a clue as to how rare that is. Its that kind of myopia that makes them think Tony's not great.

[MannyIsGod]

There's a difference between being the best player on a good team by default, because everyone else has fallen off, and doing what Tony did this year. You're on an island here buddy, nobody who's not a moron could take issue with anything I said.

Honestly, thanks for making the best type of post showing how Spurs fans still under appreciate Tony Parker. Continue posting these type of gems please.

[SequSpur]

I ing own the phrase Tony Parker is the Best Player in the NBA.

FO.

[mathbzh]

Part of the problem is that the Spurs fan baseline for greatness is the type of consistency that Tim Duncan has. Most Spurs fans don't have a clue as to how rare that is. Its that kind of myopia that makes them think Tony's not great.

Very true.
People also tend to forget CP3 disapearing acts in the PO (Remeber when he literally quit vs. the Nuggets? something Tony would never do) but still have a vivid memory of Parker's 2003 struggles.

But it's fine... in a couple of years with hopefuly 4 rings and 2 finals MVP, TP will be remember as a great PG.

[angelbelow]

I think hes the best PG post Jordan era.

1. His resume is unbeatable by any PG in the foreseeable future.
2. He regularly dominates the paint as a PG.
3. Above average defender while also being an elite scorer (actually rare at any position)
4. Invented the tear drop

[99 Problems]

TP just so clever. Such hi ball iq.

[jesterbobman]

I don't think best PG of his generation is accurate. He's always been on good teams, but a lot of the regression +/- said he didn't always have a huge impact and he hasn't always been this good, while Chris Paul has carried teams to great records. Parker has gotten further, but the team(and Coach) is inarguably better than what CP3 has had.

He'll probably go down as the most accomplished PG of his generation, and that fact he's peaking(Insert terrible shoe brand pun) at 31 rather than 27 as we thought he would is great. Becoming a killer mid range shooter is the difference, as it means there's not a great, sustainable defensive tactic to stop him.

The underrating is real, and probably relates to the fact he plays relatively fewer minutes and in a small market. If TP played 40mpg in NYC, he'd get far more credit.

[capek]

Honestly, thanks for making the best type of post showing how Spurs fans still under appreciate Tony Parker. Continue posting these type of gems please.

You'd alleviate a lot of your own confusion if you'd actually read the posts you reply to.

[AchillesHeel]

He's the most accomplished PG since the Jordan era, tbh.

Finals MVP(could win his 2nd this year), 3x NBA champion(could win his 4th this year) and he's still only 31 years old.

He's been great since 07, had a down year in 2010 but has been improving a lot ever since. Now he's emerged as a top 5, could go as far as a top 3 player this season. CP3 is the better playmaker and a better defender and a shooter, but when it comes to the playoffs, name one PG you'd currently take over Parker? The CP3s,Derons and Roses of this league haven't won squat compared to Parker, yet Parker gets overlooked when people talk about the best point guards in this league. If we win the le and TP wins the FMVP, there should be no debate over who the best PG in the league really is.

[Cry Havoc]

I'd still lean toward Jason Kidd honestly, post Jordan, mostly because he had SO many years of statistical dominance with very good defense from the PG position. Kidd could dominate a game in so many facets.

That said, a Finals MVP this year for Parker and he would be at the very least 1a or 1b along with Kidd in my mind. I will say that RIGHT NOW, Tony Parker is playing some of the best ball from a point guard since Magic. His game is absolute and complete. He makes incredibly smart passes, he knows when to drive into a defense and when to circle back around for another set, and his shot is ever-improving. Oh, and he's a pretty damn good defender, too.

It will be interesting to see where Rose, Irving, and Curry are when they peak. All three of those guys are incredible players. But injuries will likely prevent them from doing all that Tony Parker will with his career. Parker's health given the amount of contact he takes night in night out with no officiating help at all is just astounding.

[Cry Havoc]

There's a difference between being the best player on a good team by default, because everyone else has fallen off, and doing what Tony did this year. You're on an island here buddy, nobody who's not a moron could take issue with anything I said.

This is absurd. Tony Parker for a long stretch of time 2 seasons ago had a top 3 FG% in the LEAGUE. Not for point guards. For anyone. That kind of scoring efficiency at ~20 points per game is absolutely unheard of from a point guard. In fact, only two other players who ever played the guard position reached 18+ PPG and managed to score at a rate of 54.8%+ from the floor: Magic Johnson and Walter Davis. Both of them were considered guard-forwards. Davis didn't play the point, so he can effectively be eliminated from this comparison. Source: http://bkref.com/tiny/LR4xz Even scaling this back to 54% nets only a handful of guards who achieved this feat.


That leaves two. Two players. Magic and Tony. And Magic could easily use his post-up game to score at will against smaller opponents, allowing him to even play the 5 at some points in his career.


No one from a pure point guard style of play has ever done what Tony has managed in his career. In fact, only two players in NBA history have ever managed 5 seasons of 17+ points per game while shooting over 50% from the field: Tony Parker is one of those two players. Source: http://bkref.com/tiny/nWxxE

But yeah. He was just lucky that everyone else was dimming, because he was really just a "good" PG who got put in the right system, right?

[capek]

This is absurd. Tony Parker for a long stretch of time 2 seasons ago had a top 3 FG% in the LEAGUE. Not for point guards. For anyone. That kind of scoring efficiency at ~20 points per game is absolutely unheard of from a point guard. In fact, only two other players who ever played the guard position reached 18+ PPG and managed to score at a rate of 54.8%+ from the floor: Magic Johnson and Walter Davis. Both of them were considered guard-forwards. Davis didn't play the point, so he can effectively be eliminated from this comparison. Source: http://bkref.com/tiny/LR4xz Even scaling this back to 54% nets only a handful of guards who achieved this feat.


That leaves two. Two players. Magic and Tony. And Magic could easily use his post-up game to score at will against smaller opponents, allowing him to even play the 5 at some points in his career.


No one from a pure point guard style of play has ever done what Tony has managed in his career. In fact, only two players in NBA history have ever managed 5 seasons of 17+ points per game while shooting over 50% from the field: Tony Parker is one of those two players. Source: http://bkref.com/tiny/nWxxE

But yeah. He was just lucky that everyone else was dimming, because he was really just a "good" PG who got put in the right system, right?

Jesus Christ, let me just sum up my response with a gif:

I wouldn't disagree with any of that. He's been a great player for years, but this year he's been ing elite. I've been mentioning this fact all year long, going back to December there was a stretch of games where it was the Tony Parker show in the 4th quarter of games, game after game after game, Spurs needed a basket, Tony got it. Spurs fans were always spoiled seeing Duncan do that with such consistency, they expected it from Parker as well, hence the hating directed Parker's way over the years. But this is the first year you can genuinely make that link, DRob>Duncan>Parker, and it's a ing thing of beauty as a Spurs fan and the reason we're 1-0 in the finals. And seeing this back in December, it's the reason I thought we could actually be here in June. In TP I trust.

If we employ the "average man" gambit here, I think it's totally reasonable to assert that a person of average intelligence would have no problem accepting that it's possible for a player to both be great for many years, and also elevate their game to another level in a current season.....................so did the parts of my post from a single page ago not make it clear that that's what I was saying? Or did you just not read that post?

[Cry Havoc]

Jesus Christ, let me just sum up my response with a gif:

Maybe YOU should read what you post. Here, I'll help you, since you clearly haven't read what you spouted off last page yourself.

There's a difference between being the best player on a good team by default, because everyone else has fallen off, and doing what Tony did this year. You're on an island here buddy, nobody who's not a moron could take issue with anything I said.

There's a difference between being the best player on a good team by default, because everyone else has fallen off, and doing what Tony did this year. You're on an island here buddy, nobody who's not a moron could take issue with anything I said.

There's a difference between being the best player on a good team by default, because everyone else has fallen off, and doing what Tony did this year. You're on an island here buddy, nobody who's not a moron could take issue with anything I said.

There's a difference between being the best player on a good team by default, because everyone else has fallen off, and doing what Tony did this year. You're on an island here buddy, nobody who's not a moron could take issue with anything I said.

There's a difference between being the best player on a good team by default, because everyone else has fallen off, and doing what Tony did this year. You're on an island here buddy, nobody who's not a moron could take issue with anything I said.

The notion that a PG suddenly averages 19 PPG on 54% shooting because players fall off around him is ing HILARIOUS. Don't get pissy because someone is actually going to bring a basketball take into your thread of relative, subjective statements that are just ripe for goal-post moving later on. Everyone says dumb , I said Ibaka > Bosh earlier this year and I owned up to being wrong about that and changed the phrasing to be a little bit more realistic with what I was going for. Although Bosh's play as of late has me rethinking that. Be a man, admit you said some stupid things in this thread, and move on.

[MannyIsGod]

To add a little perspective, this is the first year where Tony has been able to consistent get his team wins.

[MannyIsGod]

LOL this mother er trying to act like others are stupid because he can't reconcile what he's ing saying with what he either meant to say or has changed his mind to.

[Cry Havoc]

Paul, Nash, Kidd... all easily better. Too many people are enamored with offense and don't realize defense... is pretty important.

Wat

[capek]

You guys are ing priceless. So in your eyes Tony hasn't clearly stepped up his game this season? The Tony in that '11 series against Memphis is the same Tony who has destroyed all comers in these playoffs? The internet has clearly warped you little kiddie's memories. Talk about eternal sunshine of the spotless mind.

smfh

[mathbzh]

Too many people are enamored with offense and don't realize defense... is pretty important.

Is this why Nash is easily better?

[MannyIsGod]

You guys are ing priceless. So in your eyes Tony hasn't clearly stepped up his game this season? The Tony in that '11 series against Memphis is the same Tony who has destroyed all comers in these playoffs? The internet has clearly warped you little kiddie's memories. Talk about eternal sunshine of the spotless mind.

smfh

You don't seem to understand that what you typed and what you're saying now are not the same thing. YOU said that Tony has never consistently delivered wins to this team prior to this year. Wrong. You said that Tony only became the best player on the team because others got worse. Wrong. Those things do not equal "Tony has gotten better" or "Tony had his best year ever".

I don't know if thats what you meant to say the first time or you simply changed your mind along the way but I do know you're one of a ty communicator. Before trying to act smarter than other people maybe worry about actually saying what you want to say. Average mans gambit, ha. The average man knows that if he wants to order a ing pizza for delivery he doesn't show up at the dentist you illiterate .

[Cry Havoc]

Not surprisingly, the 2 players you're lauding as having great field goal percentages... didn't shoot 3's. Does anyone use regular old FG% when speaking about guards anymore? TS% is the only percentage relevant for a guard.

Most elite point guards don't shoot 3s, and even fewer shoot 3s well. Can you name more than a few elite point guard in the past 30 years who shot 3s at a high clip every season? Nash, Stockton, and Billups are the only ones that spring to mind, and Chauncey wasn't really known as a prolific 3 point shooter, making around ~2 per game for much of his career. Parker is clearly a level above Billups, and Stockton was pre-Jordan (well, he's not post-Jordan at least). That leaves Nash, who didn't play a lick of defense in his entire career.

This makes 3 point shooting even less relevant of a skill at the point guard position due to it's rarity in most top rung points. It doesn't really have a place in this discussion. If you want to single out eFG% as a measure of elite PGs, the ONLY player to have a better season than Tony with the season in question is Nash, who basically dominates that statistic (obviously).

[Cry Havoc]

No, he's better because he has been a vastly superior offensive player. He's an EXTREMELY better shooter, passer and creator. Parker is only better at finishing at the rim. Both are bad defenders.

Tony Parker has been well above-average defensively, especially for a PG, the past couple of seasons. There were times this season before he was injured that his defense was broaching into elite territory after he completely shut down Paul and Irving. But even if he's below average, he's NEVER been the turnstile that Nash is on D. Nash cost his team championships because of his inability to guard the very same Tony Parker that's in this discussion.