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17+ PER... that's above average. It's about what he produces for the team.
damn Nono is a damn good troll
trolling after a game 4 loss in the Finals
that's some
still Manu sucks and needs to retire. that's fact. He will probably cost us this seriesHe will hammer the last nail in Duncan's coffin
17+ PER... that's above average. It's about what he produces for the team.
Here's the problem, Nono. When the Heat don't bite on Manu's pump fakes, he just doesn't have any way to get around them. He's making passes from out on the perimeter. They aren't turnovers, but they aren't creating open looks. Most of his turnovers are things that he's always done. I don't blame him for those any more than I have all through the years. For that matter, I don't blame him for the rest either. It's not that he isn't trying, or that he's being especially careless. It's just that this Miami team is quick. When they don't bite on that ball fake, he's just not getting around them.
A few times tonight, I saw guys bite, and Manu got by them. I'd have to watch the game again, to remember if those were the times he got those passes to Splitter. (And right now I don't see myself watching this one again.) But the one thing you have to admit is that Manu isn't doing the things Manu used to do. I'm not even worried about the missed 3's. He used to be able to pick up just about as many assists as Parker, on a regular basis. I know you don't get dimes if the shooters miss, but other than Tiago, he hasn't been able to get guys a lot of great looks. He's just not able to penetrate and suck in the defense.
Do you remember, all these years, when the Spurs were down to one last possession in a period, they would give the ball to Manu and he would dribble out beyond the 3-point line until about the 5-6 second mark? Then he would take off and create something? You know... you KNOW that he's not able to do that now. Not against this Heat team. And you know it because, if he were able to, he'd be doing it.
These comments are mostly bull . Nobody is more compe ive than Manu. Nobody wants it more. And everybody misses shots, and has shooting slumps. But Manu has just not been able to do the things that have made him so deadly. You can't blame his effort, but you can't deny what you see on the court either.
If we lose manu cost us this Finals. I'm glad Manu didn't get the 2005 Finals MVP IMO
Post his stats.
I can respect ElNono's grind. That Nono got that kamikaze spirit.
For all of Manu's shortcomings, there's a reason Pop keeps going to him. It's because regardless of how he performs, you know he will give everything he has to win. He has that in him more than Tony and even more than Duncan. Pop will likely live or die with Manu. The alternative is to play him 5-10 mpg and split his minutes between Neal and Green. I really don't see a scenario where riding Manu till the end and hoping for a breakout game, isn't the best option.
BTW - Tony has been smart enough to pass early and avoid that trap a lot. I'm pretty sure that's what Tim and Pop were yelling at CoJo - get rid of the ball quicker. If you hunker down and let the trap settle in, you're in trouble. Even Tony. He may get out of it some, but he's still turned it over some too.
are you reading what you type?
Of course it's a great pass and play. What better than having a 7 footer rolling to the rim against an undersized team you could possibly want? The Spurs will take that play every time over chucking a 3.
This is who the Spurs are. They played 100 games running pick and roll, and they're not going to start playing triangle now.
And if Miami is keying on Splitter under the rim, how's that Manu's fault? He's running the play Pop wants him to run and they've run 10000 times during the season.
Yup gone is ginobili relentlessly driving to the rim .he's a glorified spot up shooting pg now
and his shot is broken beyond repair
dude is
I'm actually thinking Manu might produce a bit better playing actual SG for a while. Maybe starting him wouldn't be such a bad idea.. Move Kawhi to the 4 and Green to the 3...
Manu is done bro. starting him won't do a lick.
hopefully he will retire if we lose. hopefully he will retire if we win also
Manu can't be 100%.....I have watched Manu before the playoffs started. I sit in the lower bowl on the spurs bench side and watched Manu move.
You don't see it on tv but I think he has a lower back problem. He walks around holding his back. He is stretching and doing lunges all the time. Tonight the way he was
sitting on the bench seat was a like reclining chair. He looks uncomfortable and he try's not to bend his back. I had a back problem a few years ago an he is doing the
same things I did to get some relief. BUT if he is out there playing--no excuses.........
I got my medical degree from the University of Holiday Inn Express.
I agree. And that's why I said people needed to regulate expectations a while back. Miami deserves credit too. As Manu has aged, his bread an butter has been the pick and roll. This team is perhaps the top pick and roll defensive team in the league.
Obviously, his shooting slump is worrisome too. I understand it's probably killing his head because he doesn't want to shoot and keep missing. But the only way he's gonna get out of it is shooting.
No they can't. It's over dude
Probably not a terrible idea. Save Neal for the subs. I'd rather Pop try Diaw first, though.
I noticed in a couple of shots some weird posture... like kicking the leg a bit. Makes you wonder if there's something going on there.
Some thoughts on Manu:
-Regardless what happens this series, I want him back. The talk of wanting Ginobili to retire is crazy -- he's still damn good when he's going right.
-Let's not forget Manu is less than 100% right now. He has yet to recover his stop/start burst ... which has been missing since his second hamstring pull.
-The Heat are a really, really, really tough matchup for him on offense. At this point in his career, he can't split or beat a blitz. He just can't. So thus he has to resort to some sort of jump pass or crosscourt pass. Unfortunately, as this series progresses, the Heat are figuring out more and more what Manu wants to do. Tonight, though he only had one turnover, it seemed like every pass he made resulted in a Spur catching the ball with a Heat playing bearing down on him. And that's because the Heat have figured out what Manu wants to do. It's not leading directly to turnovers but the end results are basically the same. Manu is typically great at creating open shots -- tonight I can't remember him doing that at all more than once or twice.
-Even in his prime, Manu has always been a rhythm player. Getting in foul trouble knocked him out of his rhythm and he never recovered.
-For Manu to have an impact, I think it's going to take one-on-one penetrations. Pick-and-rolls aren't doing much for him right now. Drive. Drive. Drive some more. Earn trips to the line. Find open teammates if the defense starts collapsing. Don't resort to either low percentage pull-up three-pointers or pick-and-rolls -- neither one is working.
-It's a got damn miracle that the Spurs are 2-2 against the Heat in the Finals with Ginobili producing so little.
-I haven't given up hope on Ginobili. Wade had a great bounce back game tonight after it looked like he was dead in the water the first three games. Ginobili is the same type of compe or. It's his turn to turn back the clock. He just has to at this point. Without that X-factor on the court, the Spurs gimmicks on D and hot shooting on O have done just about all that could be done. Now it's time for the great players to step up. I still believe Ginobili can be great.
As much as Manu is pissing this series away so far, I agree. Now I wanted him pulled from this game for sure because it was still winnable in the fourth when he was stinking it up. But man, I do not want to see him playing any more point this series.
disagree. Manu didn't give the extra effort tonight. He was lame and defeated early. Very low confidence player now. He is and hurts the team
how anybody can see any different is beyond me. Dude is defeated and a loser at this point.
He's no better than a coked up old Maradona. a piece of trash
Exactly why I want him to shoot more. I know he's been struggling shooting, but the Spurs are not going to sit him on the back of the bench at this stage of the season, especially having to limit Tony minutes and no other ball handler.
Might aswell go out on a blaze of glory/ .
Manu already went out on a blaze. In game 4 of teh finlas. Dude is a bunch of ashes now.
time to move on to TMAC IMO
The level of overreaching in this thread borders on legendary.
See... but you're thinking about basketball, and not the blame game. I was thinking about the same thing before this game. If you could get Manu some good, open looks he might break the slump. And that would shake everything up.
And as bad as CoJo has been, I think you almost have to give Nando a shot. He's stronger, and less prone to getting his pocket picked. ANY shot attempt is better than these weak-assed turnovers. As good as the guys are shooting, some of them are going to go it.
You still ignoring the fact that Neal isn't the PG. He isn't the ball handler on a pick & roll. He's just sitting in his corner waiting for somebody to give him the ball. When he does get the ball, he either goes one on one or takes a shot.
The only time Neal had to actually run a pick and roll, he chucked a 3 from almost halfcourt (and made it). There's a reason Pop doesn't make Neal the backup PG. He can't handle the rock, and the first time Miami traps it's a turnover waiting to happen.
Corey can't get to the rim either, and today he suc bed to the trap a couple times too.
The Spurs really don't have many ballhandlers at all. Give Miami credit, they know how to trap hard.
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