Manu will be the scapegoat as usual, but...

[ElNono]

See... but you're thinking about basketball, and not the blame game. I was thinking about the same thing before this game. If you could get Manu some good, open looks he might break the slump. And that would shake everything up.

And as bad as CoJo has been, I think you almost have to give Nando a shot. He's stronger, and less prone to getting his pocket picked. ANY shot attempt is better than these weak-assed turnovers. As good as the guys are shooting, some of them are going to go it.

I'm thinking because of Miami starting Miller. Pop isn't going to start Tiago if Miller is out there. I don't think he was pleased with Diaw on Wade either.

[GSH]

disagree. Manu didn't give the extra effort tonight. He was lame and defeated early. Very low confidence player now. He is and hurts the team

how anybody can see any different is beyond me. Dude is defeated and a loser at this point.

He's no better than a coked up old Maradona. a piece of trash

Dude... you're way the out of line with that. Tone it down some. It's hard when your team loses, and it will be harder if they don't win the series. But that is unnecessary. Manu would open a vein and bleed if it would help this team.

[TheGoldStandard]

Manu running point is very predictable and the Heat caught it in the film, when he goes left he comes back under the screen and looks to pass in High Low to the big, Splitter is usually in.. Splitter doesn't have any balls so he's easy to strip or block. More minutes for Diaw or we go small and have TMac playing at the 4 in this situation so we can get someone who can catch it, shoot or pass and not get poked away.

Manu needs to be greedy, he needs to shoot the ball at a high clip from smart spots on the floor. No more 3's that are defended, they are not falling, more jump shots and more driving.

[GSH]

I'm thinking because of Miami starting Miller. Pop isn't going to start Tiago if Miller is out there. I don't think he was pleased with Diaw on Wade either.

I was agreeing with you about starting Manu. The comment about Nando was about what to do when Tony isn't at the point. I think getting Manu in with the starters would be a good idea.

[ElNono]

-The Heat are a really, really, really tough matchup for him on offense. At this point in his career, he can't split or beat a blitz. He just can't. So thus he has to resort to some sort of jump pass or crosscourt pass. Unfortunately, as this series progresses, the Heat are figuring out more and more what Manu wants to do. Tonight, though he only had one turnover, it seemed like every pass he made resulted in a Spur catching the ball with a Heat playing bearing down on him. And that's because the Heat have figured out what Manu wants to do. It's not leading directly to turnovers but the end results are basically the same. Manu is typically great at creating open shots -- tonight I can't remember him doing that at all more than once or twice.

This is key, IMO, and since Tony getting hurt, it's something Pop is going to have to prioritize. Make sure he gets both Manu and Tim going somehow.

I think being the ball handler isn't going to work for the Spurs long term in this series. I thought Pop did the right thing by establishing Tim early in Game 3. We'll need more of that, and we'll need more of getting Manu some open looks.

[Brazil]

At the end of the day
1. It's a miracle to be 2-2 with this manu
2. We are not not going to win a game in Miami without manu

There is 0 alternative other than live or die with Manu and I'm fine with that. Manu is the ultimate compe or, play him put him in the best condition and hope for the best.

and if we failed spurs will still have had a of a season

[ElNono]

I was agreeing with you about starting Manu. The comment about Nando was about what to do when Tony isn't at the point. I think getting Manu in with the starters would be a good idea.

I was actually thinking T-Mac, believe it or not. Just to have safe guy to bring the ball up and start the offense, nothing else. He's washed up, but I thought his passing was still ok. He's a pro too, and a guy that has seen double/triple teams before.

[james evans]

i don't know what the original poster is talking about, manu and splitter were both azz last night. it's like ginobli is being paid to throw games and splitter hasn't realized yet he's 7 foot tall. every time we get a lead, popovich puts in the worst lineup possible and just like that a 10-0 run happens. it's been happening all fukin season.

[ElNono]

At the end of the day
1. It's a miracle to be 2-2 with this manu
2. We are not not going to win a game in Miami without manu

There is 0 alternative other than live or die with Manu and I'm fine with that. Manu is the ultimate compe or, play him put him in the best condition and hope for the best.

and if we failed spurs will still have had a of a season

I thought we could get away with it if Green kept on shooting like he is and Tony was healthy and played like he did in games 1 and 3... but with Tony hurt, I definitely agree.

That's why I said Manu will need to produce more personally. I thought the rest of his game was ok, but 4 shots isn't going to get it done.

[GSH]

Because what you're saying is completely stupid. Every other Spurs guard who played (except maybe CJ) got to the hole at some point in time. Manu? Nope. Gary Neal is slow as . Danny Green is slower than Manu as well. Yet they all made it to the bucket. The idea that Manu can't drive because he's starting the offense is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this site.

You still ignoring the fact that Neal isn't the PG. He isn't the ball handler on a pick & roll. He's just sitting in his corner waiting for somebody to give him the ball. When he does get the ball, he either goes one on one or takes a shot.

The only time Neal had to actually run a pick and roll, he chucked a 3 from almost halfcourt (and made it). There's a reason Pop doesn't make Neal the backup PG. He can't handle the rock, and the first time Miami traps it's a turnover waiting to happen.

Corey can't get to the rim either, and today he suc bed to the trap a couple times too.

The Spurs really don't have many ballhandlers at all. Give Miami credit, they know how to trap hard.

I don't always agree with Nono, but he knows the ing game. Some of you should consider that. Even when he isn't 100% right, he's never 100% wrong.

No... Neal is not the backup PG when Manu is on the floor. For all purposes, George Hill wasn't the backup PG when he was on the floor with Manu. I don't care how tall the players are, or how they are listed on the roster, Manu is the one running the offense. That play where Neal chucked the long 3 made a lot of people cheer - it made me cringe.

[jag]

LOL @ thread le. Manu scapegoat as usual. Poor Manu.

No Spur has been shown as much love as Manu over the past 10 years. Not Tim. Not Tony. But now all of a sudden he's the usual scapegoat and we should all be happy he shot 0% for most of the game and only had 1 TO.

Basically sums up my feelings on the matter.

[james evans]

Nah, this loss is 100% on Manu. What the stat sheet doesn't tell you is that the quality of Manu's 3 point attempts were so bad that they were effectively turnovers.

Let us also not forget that he can no longer execute simple basketball skills, such as dribbling, passing, etc.

he can't even do a simple pass to a teammate 3 feet away from him. he just has to be flashy and it's mostly turnovers. he needs to be benched. we got rid of jackson for what? for what?

[Kidd K]

Ginobili was awful. I'm all for saying, "hey look what guys did besides score", and "hey, look what guys did that didn't reflect in the stats". . .but not only did Manu not do much that reflected in his stats, most of what he did that didn't reflect in his stats was bad.

This is the first time I have literally wished Pop would yank him off the court and bench him for the rest of the game. I realize Pop had no choice but to rely on Manu more because Tony was playing hurt, but the guy was absolutely trash tonight.

Yes, the refs were really ty in the first half, but the officiating wasn't nearly as bad in the 2nd half. Manu took over and shat the bed for them instead. Splitter and Diaw both played soft, Duncan made some bad plays, and Tony couldn't play well enough with the hamstring in the 2nd half. . .but Ginobili was bad throughout the game and steadily got worse.

I have no faith in Ginobili anymore. He's regressed in to "anything he gives us is a bonus" territory, like catchers in baseball.

[ElNono]

I don't always agree with Nono, but he knows the ing game. Some of you should consider that. Even when he isn't 100% right, he's never 100% wrong.

No... Neal is not the backup PG when Manu is on the floor. For all purposes, George Hill wasn't the backup PG when he was on the floor with Manu. I don't care how tall the players are, or how they are listed on the roster, Manu is the one running the offense. That play where Neal chucked the long 3 made a lot of people cheer - it made me cringe.

this was my reaction to that shot:

wow terrible shot

[DMC]

Bosh and James had 24 combined rebounds. That's more than the entire Spurs starting 5.

So you add these:

20 turnovers
no rebounding
Poor shooting
Poor FT shooting
Other team hitting everything

And you're still within 5 in the middle of the 4th.

We fix one of those we win.

[jag]

i don't know what the original poster is talking about, manu and splitter were both azz last night. it's like ginobli is being paid to throw games and splitter hasn't realized yet he's 7 foot tall. every time we get a lead, popovich puts in the worst lineup possible and just like that a 10-0 run happens. it's been happening all fukin season.

Are you really trying to put this off on Popovich, you ing re ?

[SpurSpurSpurs]

But the Heat is blitzing him on every pick and roll... he's passing to Tiago right under the rim, and he gets his blocked... that's not on Manu.

Exactly my thought! Good defensive adjustment by Miami. This is going to be for Manu and TP moving forward.

I do think if he's going to get out of that shooting slump, he's going to have to shoot more. 4 shots is not enough.

4 shots is not enough, yes. Also, forcing shots is a big no no too. They need to get an open shot and hit it because the paint is narrowing its path to the hole.

[baseline bum]

LOL @ thread le. Manu scapegoat as usual. Poor Manu.

No Spur has been shown as much love as Manu over the past 10 years. Not Tim. Not Tony. But now all of a sudden he's the usual scapegoat and we should all be happy he shot 0% for most of the game and only had 1 TO.

Manny with the Tyson jab into uppercut combination.

[GSH]

I was actually thinking T-Mac, believe it or not. Just to have safe guy to bring the ball up and start the offense, nothing else. He's washed up, but I thought his passing was still ok. He's a pro too, and a guy that has seen double/triple teams before.

I mentioned that over in TimVP's thread. I'd rather see ANY shot attempt, instead of these weak-assed turnovers. CoJo just isn't physically strong enough (Yet. He's still just a pup.) If T-Mac could just advance the ball and avoid that trap, we've got guys who are shooting lights out. A few of them are going to go in, even if they aren't wide open and flat-footed. Anything is better than coughing it up and giving Miami easy points in transition.

I haven't gotten a real easy feeling, watching him in garbage time. Do you think he could stand not jacking up shots? Because all they really need is someone to withstand the ball pressure, and hold down the fort while Tony is getting a blow.

I'd welcome seeing Manu in with the starters, and T-Mac handling the ball with the second unit. It's pretty obvious that this lineup isn't going anywhere but fishing. And I agree, T-Mac is probably the one guy who is strong enough, and experienced enough to give the second team a shot.

[UZER]

Manu Ginobili 1-5 FG | 3-4 FT | 2 REB | 2 AST | 5 PTS
While Wade has received a ton of criticism this playoffs, Ginobili has been fading out of the picture for weeks now with little rubbernecking. He was held to single-digit points for the seventh time in his last nine games. Three quick fouls in the first half took Ginobili out of the game and he never could bounce back. For someone who loves Ginobili's game, this is tough to watch.

...from Espn

[ElNono]

4 shots is not enough, yes. Also, forcing shots is a big no no too. They need to get an open shot and hit it because the paint is narrowing its path to the hole.

He won't get an open shot playing PG and running the pick and roll with one big and 3 other shooters. The problem the Spurs face is that there's nobody else to run PG. So you either play Manu with Tony, or we're going to have to stick with this.

[baseline bum]

this was my reaction to that shot:

How come you didn't post my reaction son?

Neal with the Re Manu shot and it drops.

[ElNono]

How come you didn't post my reaction son?

lol I missed it in the thread

[jag]

Bosh and James had 24 combined rebounds. That's more than the entire Spurs starting 5.

So you add these:

20 turnovers
no rebounding
Poor shooting
Poor FT shooting
Other team hitting everything

And you're still within 5 in the middle of the 4th.

We fix one of those we win.

DMC with the grandfather took me to the back room to calm down, offered me 15 minutes of his wisdom, patted me on the back and sent me on my way a wiser man goods

[baseline bum]

lol I missed it in the thread

Dude, it was teh very next post after yours