Not one, Not two, ...

[BlackSilver]

You get there with the guys that win or lose it. Of course they cost you the ring if you lose, but they cost you everything if they don't play at all because you never get there in the first place so these meltdown threads are really short sighted. It's been an every other game thing all series and for 2 series for Miami. We almost got 2 in a row, and they pulled it out in OT, but they have to be worried as well knowing Manu had the worst game of his career, TP didn't do so hot and our shooters were ineffective and we still almost won. They close out, we go inside, they collapse, we shoot the three, they zone, we attack. They know this. We'll see how the Spurs play next game, but the Heat are positioned to lose this game and tbh, the Spurs have nothing to lose, nothing at all.

Well said. You can't blame the guys who got you there in the first place.

[ducks]

lol gtfo, single plays don't cost championships, they're just what you remember as the culprit.

one play does not -66points

[ElNono]

These series had a lot of blowouts, tbh... so the plus/minus on losses is easily exaggerated... But yeah, you can't go from beasting in one game to that turd two days later...

Personally, there's nothing to 'forgive' Manu for... he's played as hard as ever, he just wasn't good. Taking the long view, which I know it's difficult now, I'm more than happy to what he has brought to the franchise, including the 3 ships he's been integral part of, tbh...

[wtgspurs]

one wont do two is not enough huh....

[Baseline]

Definitely two. 1. The foul on Dirk. 2. Game 6 in Miami.

[hater]

These series had a lot of blowouts, tbh... so the plus/minus on losses is easily exaggerated... But yeah, you can't go from beasting in one game to that turd two days later...

Personally, there's nothing to 'forgive' Manu for... he's played as hard as ever, he just wasn't good. Taking the long view, which I know it's difficult now, I'm more than happy to what he has brought to the franchise, including the 3 ships he's been integral part of, tbh...

agree with you but I am just glad finally my takes are redeemed.

I saw this Manu trend coming since February. And been preaching and preaching. He has been doing this , what he has done this playoffs since February. And still most ppl here would give him the pass. I been saying he is the reason Green and others evolved maybe a bit too late. Thank goodness they were able to evolve despite Manu tbh. Had Green and others not evolved at all, we'd been fishing since round 2.

He has been hurting the Spurs since February and finally he is inserting the final stake in the team's heart. Nothing against Manu tbh, not only his fault. Pop and the front office decided to roll with this black hole and now are reaping the results.

Still.. Spurs in 7

[HI-FI]

In the three losses this series, the Spurs have a plus/minus of -66 when Manu is on the court.

When he has been on the bench in those three games, the Spurs have a plus/minus of +30.

Blaming a series loss on one player is too cruel (even Hedo, tbh) but, damn, a 96 point swing in three games?

Non-issue
-ElNono

[DPG21920]

These series had a lot of blowouts, tbh... so the plus/minus on losses is easily exaggerated... But yeah, you can't go from beasting in one game to that turd two days later...

Personally, there's nothing to 'forgive' Manu for... he's played as hard as ever, he just wasn't good. Taking the long view, which I know it's difficult now, I'm more than happy to what he has brought to the franchise, including the 3 ships he's been integral part of, tbh...

No - he's not playing as hard as ever. Playing hard is not just physical. He's not attacking as much as he could and he is mentally weak. That is not playing hard IMO. Sure, he's been an unbelievable Spur so I am not talking about hating him. This clearly taints the love affair that was Manu Ginobili if the Spurs lose.

Huge difference in having an off series, vs being the sole reason your team can't over come the Heat to hoist their 5th le. This is a series so bad, so poorly played by Manu that it changes the way you feel about him IMO.

[SA210]

Zero. Pop going small has cost the Spurs at least two so far.

And trying to make it 3

[ElNono]

agree with you but I am just glad finally my takes are redeemed.

you've been all over the place all season. And no, you're redeemed, Manu isn't 'done', he had a bad series... just like Tim did two/three years ago. Obviously, this is much magnified because it isn't the 1st or 2nd round, it's the Finals.

tbh, since I've been keeping score on you, you've posted a disclaimer with an out on every prediction

[DPG21920]

Nono - how on Earth can you say he's not done while posting what you have? You have essentially said the Spurs need to bring in help to do what Gino is supposed to do but can no longer do on a playoff team? If he can no longer do his job at a high enough level for a le contender on a consistent basis, is that not the definition of done?

[hater]

Manu isn't 'done'

[ElNono]

No - he's not playing as hard as ever. Playing hard is not just physical. He's not attacking as much as he could and he is mentally weak. That is not playing hard IMO. Sure, he's been an unbelievable Spur so I am not talking about hating him. This clearly taints the love affair that was Manu Ginobili if the Spurs lose.

Disagree. He's playing his heart out every game. I'm sure he's frustrated as much as anybody else is, but it certainly not for mailing it in.

As I said before, one game/series/season doesn't taint the solid 10 years he gave this franchise. I understand it's difficult with the tunnel-vision of the moment, but I have zero doubt about it.

Huge difference in having an off series, vs being the sole reason your team can't over come the Heat to hoist their 5th le. This is a series so bad, so poorly played by Manu that it changes the way you feel about him IMO.

Not here. At all. Love Manu, love him to be a Spur. Always be grateful to him. I feel bad for him, because I know he's very frustrated with his play, but I appreciate he leaves it all out there for the team.

[ducks]

who does not leave it out there?

[ElNono]

Nono - how on Earth can you say he's not done while posting what you have? You have essentially said the Spurs need to bring in help to do what Gino is supposed to do but can no longer do on a playoff team? If he can no longer do his job at a high enough level for a le contender on a consistent basis, is that not the definition of done?

There's a role for Manu in this team that doesn't involve being the 'top dog' on the second unit. He's still useful probably against the other 80% of the league, and still better than guys like Neal, etc... so yeah, he isn't 'done' as a player.

[ducks]

without manu neal and the rest of the bench would be forced to get experience might cost the spurs a couple games doing regular season but will learn to be effective against teams like heat

[ducks]

There's a role for Manu in this team that doesn't involve being the 'top dog' on the second unit. He's still useful probably against the other 80% of the league, and still better than guys like Neal, etc... so yeah, he isn't 'done' as a player.

be like patty with the towel for vet min

[DPG21920]

Disagree. He's playing his heart out every game. I'm sure he's frustrated as much as anybody else is, but it certainly not for mailing it in.

As I said before, one game/series/season doesn't taint the solid 10 years he gave this franchise. I understand it's difficult with the tunnel-vision of the moment, but I have zero doubt about it.



Not here. At all. Love Manu, love him to be a Spur. Always be grateful to him. I feel bad for him, because I know he's very frustrated with his play, but I appreciate he leaves it all out there for the team.

Oh, he's so beloved I don't think everyone turns on him (nor should they "hate" on him). But I do think you are woefully underestimating the impact this has on how many fans will view him. He will go from the most beloved Spurs of all time to a guy that was pretty well appreciated. Huge difference.

[DPG21920]

There's a role for Manu in this team that doesn't involve being the 'top dog' on the second unit. He's still useful probably against the other 80% of the league, and still better than guys like Neal, etc... so yeah, he isn't 'done' as a player.

Again, disagree. So now he's not even capable of being a bench leader? If you are a big 3 member and you cannot perform at a decent level, let alone lead a bench against bench units and then come in during crunch time, that's pretty much done.

I don't think he's done, but don't see how you saying what you say can argue otherwise.

[ElNono]

Oh, he's so beloved I don't think everyone turns on him (nor should they "hate" on him). But I do think you are woefully underestimating the impact this has on how many fans will view him. He will go from the most beloved Spurs of all time to a guy that was pretty well appreciated. Huge difference.

Nah. I think over time the reading of this series will be that he's lost some of his magic due to getting older. And there's some of that, obviously. Pretty sure. But hey, just my opinion.

Again, disagree. So now he's not even capable of being a bench leader? If you are a big 3 member and you cannot perform at a decent level, let alone lead a bench against bench units and then come in during crunch time, that's pretty much done.

I don't think he's done, but don't see how you saying what you say can argue otherwise.

Well, hater's argument was that he was done as a player. I don't agree with that. If you want to change the argument to him being no longer a 'big 3' on this team, then I would probably agree, especially with the ascension of Kawhi. But those are two different arguments, tbh.

[hater]

when you have 8 turnovers in a finals game and 2 in OT you are ing done

wow, just wow

[ElNono]

when you have 8 turnovers in a finals game and 2 in OT you are ing done

when you drop 24-10 in an NBA Finals game, you're not done.

wow, just wow

[DPG21920]

Nah. I think over time the reading of this series will be that he's lost some of his magic due to getting older. And there's some of that, obviously. Pretty sure. But hey, just my opinion.



Well, hater's argument was that he was done as a player. I don't agree with that. If you want to change the argument to him being no longer a 'big 3' on this team, then I would probably agree, especially with the ascension of Kawhi. But those are two different arguments, tbh.

No - my argument is someone can't say "Manu is not done" while at the same time say "Spurs need to bring in someone who does what Manu is supposed to do: A ball handler, passer, scorer.... In addition to that, he is not capable of being a big 3 member or leading a bench unit..".

If you can't handle the ball, take care of it, score or even be effective as a bench leader, what can you do and how is that not effectively done if you really believe that and aren't making excuses?

[TheGreatYacht]

[DPG21920]

^ See, it's happening.