The truth about Manu Ginobili's turnovers

[Diego20]

For all those Manu haters, here you have.

Dispelling the "Turnobili" Myth.
http://www.poundingtherock.com/2013/.../nba-palyoffs-

If you don't want to see that link, check this out:

Through 19 playoff games Ginobili had 43 turnovers. That's 2.26 per, well below his career average of 2.5 turnovers per postseason game and in line with his career regular season average of 2.1 turnovers per game.
In fact, even when you include the final two games, Ginobili averaged 2.6 turnovers per playoff game in 2012-2013. That's LESS than the past four playoffs, when he averaged 2.8, 3.0, 3.4, and 3.0 turnovers per contest. In 2004-05, generally regarded as the best playoffs of Ginobili's career, he averaged 2.9 turnovers per game.
Through 19 games, with 97 assists and 43 turnovers Ginobili had an assist-to-turnover ratio of 2.25, which was well above his career postseason average of 1.9 and even after the two bad games it was still at 2.08. His average of five assists per game in the playoffs was also the second-best of his career.

Manu will be back next season.

[TheGreatYacht]

For all those Manu haters, here you have.

Dispelling the "Turnobili" Myth.
http://www.poundingtherock.com/2013/.../nba-palyoffs-

If you don't want to see that link, check this out:

Through 19 playoff games Ginobili had 43 turnovers. That's 2.26 per, well below his career average of 2.5 turnovers per postseason game and in line with his career regular season average of 2.1 turnovers per game.
In fact, even when you include the final two games, Ginobili averaged 2.6 turnovers per playoff game in 2012-2013. That's LESS than the past four playoffs, when he averaged 2.8, 3.0, 3.4, and 3.0 turnovers per contest. In 2004-05, generally regarded as the best playoffs of Ginobili's career, he averaged 2.9 turnovers per game.
Through 19 games, with 97 assists and 43 turnovers Ginobili had an assist-to-turnover ratio of 2.25, which was well above his career postseason average of 1.9 and even after the two bad games it was still at 2.08. His average of five assists per game in the playoffs was also the second-best of his career.

Manu will be back next season.

He chocked in the NBA finals so that article don't mean sh*t.

This.

Enough of this loyatly BS. If Manu really wants to play another year and retire as a Spur, then he can play for the veteran's minimum at a very reduced role. He won't go to another team because he knows he wouldn't last. If he changes teams then he will be overplayed in minutes, he will get more injuries, and he will play as bad as the Game 6 Manu or worst.

I agree that business is business. Life goes on. One can't stay living in the past. Stop throwing the "three championships or three rings thanks to Manu" bullsh*t because Tim Duncan is the main reason why the Spurs are even good and have been good for the past 15 years. Without Tim Duncan, Manu would just be an above average player, Parker would be an above average PG, Pop wouldn't even be a Hall of Fame coach, and most importantly the Spurs would have ZERO championships.

So fu*k Manu. He can retire for all I care. He already cost Timmy two championships or even three if you want to include the Derek Fisher shot. Enough of this loyalty BS from you Manu lovers.

If Pop thinks like you then I guarantee you that the Spurs are NOT winning the championship next year. Manu plays like a scrub now. He's washed up. The man just wants to be with his family. He doesn't enjoy basketball anymore. Basketball is like a job to him now and not a passion. If he really cared about winning, he would work on his diet and body this offseason.

[rayweb_on]

?
really? 8 turnovers in a single game is not bad for you because in the previus game he didnt had one? really? is that how you think it is?

[Diego20]

?
really? 8 turnovers in a single game is not bad for you because in the previus game he didnt had one? really? is that how you think it is?

That was only one game bro, it's not like he has 8 turnovers per game. And turnovers mean nothing if the other team does not score inmediately

Again, if you think 8 turnovers in a single game is too bad, then scoring 100 points in ONE GAME and 0 points in the previous 15 games that's being A VEEEEEEEERY GOOD PLAYER BRO!!

[ThaBigFundamental21]

That stats are on par, but he played terrible when it mattered the most. That is obviously very bad. He and Parker both shat the bed. The only difference is no one is upset with Parker. Even though Parker is only 31 and Manu is 35. Double standard for sure. But at the same time, Manu wasn't scoring a whole lot. When he is scoring more, you can deal with his turnovers. We didn't get nearly enough from 2 of our big 3. The Spurs would be wise to make some upgrades somewhere on the court....

[chaco]

Most Turnovers in NBA History by Player

1. Karl Malone - 4,524

Karl Malone turned the ball over an all-time high of 4,524 times in his 19 year NBA career. He only led the league once in a season in turnovers, and his being number one on the list is mainly because he played so many games in his career. Still, he averaged 3.1 turnovers per game.

For comparison purposes, that is about the same average number of turnovers per game that Dwight Howard has so far in his career.

In the playoffs, Malone averaged 2.85 turnovers per game. A much better rate than he had during regular season play.

2. John Stockton - 4,244

Malone's long-time Utah Jazz teammate, John Stockton, is number two all-time in turnovers with 4,244. Stockton also had a very long career, and that is mainly why he is on this list. Stockton averaged 2.82 turnovers per game, which is the lowest per game turnover rate on this list.

Stockton averaged 2.84 turnovers per playoff game in his career. Just about the same rate as during regular season play.

3. Jason Kidd(notes) - 3,836

So far in his career, Jason Kidd has 3,836 turnovers in his career. Kidd has played in 1,267 games and has averaged 3.03 turnovers per game played. Kidd has led the league twice in turnovers so far in his career, including in 2001-02 when he played for my Nets team.

In the playoffs in his career, Jason Kidd is averaging 3.02 turnovers per game. In both 2002 and 2003, Kidd led my Nets to the NBA Finals. He turned the ball over 146 total times in 40 games in the playoffs over those two years. That's 3.70 turnovers per playoff game. The Nets lost both times in the finals, but we were never sniffing the NBA Finals those two years without the great play of Jason Kidd.

In the 2011 post-season, Jason Kidd has just 25 turnovers in 10 games played. His Dallas Mavericks shocked the NBA by sweeping the two-time defending champion Los Angeles Lakers right out of the playoffs.

4. Moses Malone - 3,804

Moses Malone turned the ball over 3,804 times in 1,329 NBA games. So his turnover average per game was 3.05. Malone was a great playoff compe or, and in the NBA playoffs he turned the ball over 215 times in 94 games. A 2.29 average, which is much better than his regular season average. Clearly, Malone was more careful, and more efficient, with the basketball in the playoffs.

5. Isiah Thomas - 3,682

Isiah Thomas turned the ball over 3,682 times in his career in 979 games played. So he averaged 3.76 turnovers per game. That is the second highest total on this list. Isiah was a bit more careful with the ball in the playoffs (369 turnovers in 111 playoff games), averaging 3.32 turnovers per game.

6. Hakeem Olajuwon - 3,667

Hakeem Olajuwon turned the ball over 3,667 times in 1,238 games played. So he averaged 2.96 turnovers per game. In the playoffs, Hakeem turned the ball over 424 times in 145 games, for a an average of 2.92. Just about the same as during regular season play.

7. Patrick Ewing - 3,537

Patrick Ewing turned the ball over 3,537 times in 1,183 games played, for an average of 2.99 turnovers per game. In the playoffs, Ewing turned the ball over 345 times in 139 games, for an average of 2.48 per game. So Ewing was more carefull with the basketball in playoffs, but still never won an NBA Championship despite all his guarantees.

8. Magic Johnson - 3,506

Magic Johnson turned the ball over 3,506 times in 906 games played. His average per game of 3.87 is the highest on this list. In the playoffs, Magic averaged 3.66 turnovers per game. A better rate than during regular season play, but still high. All the turnovers didn't stop Magic from winning five NBA Championships, and being named NBA Finals MVP three times.

9. Reggie Theus - 3,493

Reggie Theus was a pretty good NBA player, who turned the ball over a lot. Theus had 3,493 turnovers in 1,026 NBA games, for an average of 3.40 turnovers per game. He also averaged 18.5 points and 6.3 assists per game. Theus scored 19,015 points in his NBA career, but is unlikely to ever make the Basketball Hall of Fame. He finished his NBA career playing for the Nets, and I remember him as a player in love with his looks.

10. Charles Barkley - 3,376

Charles Barkley turned the ball over 3,376 times in 1,073 NBA games. So he averaged 3.15 turnovers per game. In the playoffs, Barkley averaged 2.87 turnovers per game.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ycn-8448675

[rayweb_on]

Lol

[rayweb_on]

That was only one game bro, it's not like he has 8 turnovers per game. And turnovers mean nothing if the other team does not score inmediately

Again, if you think 8 turnovers in a single game is too bad, then scoring 100 points in ONE GAME and 0 points in the previous 15 games that's being A VEEEEEEEERY GOOD PLAYER BRO!!

ok BRO!
you really know about basketball huh?
I have been watching Manu since neuquen 2001, and he is smart and has heart ..but the in this NBA finals he just chocked, it happens BRO! part of being a true fan is to admit that you cant always win and realize what was wrong. Manu was awful like it or not BRO!

[UZER]

Manus turnovers are bad enough. His "we" have to play better comments are even more ridiculous. no dude, YOU have to play better. Take responsibility like Danny Green did. You single handedly cost the team the champiobship. Own up and admit it.

[TheGreatYacht]

Manus turnovers are bad enough. His "we" have to play better comments are even more ridiculous. no dude, YOU have to play better. Take responsibility like Danny Green did. You single handedly cost the team the champiobship. Own up and admit it.

Exactly. That motherfuc*er is stubborn. He won't admit his mistakes. Sh*t even Tim Duncan blamed himself for the championship failure because of his Game 7 missed hook shot which is totally unfair. Timmy and Kawhi put the Spurs on their backs for Games 6 and 7. I'm not too surprised about Manu's at ude TBH because Argentinians are known to be stubborn and close-minded people.

[Diego20]

Exactly. That motherfuc*er is stubborn. He won't admit his mistakes. Sh*t even Tim Duncan blamed himself for the championship failure because of his Game 7 missed hook shot which is totally unfair. Timmy and Kawhi put the Spurs on their backs for Games 6 and 7. I'm not too surprised about Manu's at ude TBH because Argentinians are known to be stubborn and close-minded people.

Huh? You only knew 2 argentinians in your f*cking life, Ginobili and Oberto, stop saying bs please and keep talking about this thread. You the Manu haters are mad cause this thread is showing the truth.

[UZER]

Huh? You only knew 2 argentinians in your f*cking life, Ginobili and Oberto, stop saying bs please and keep talking about this thread. You the Manu haters are mad cause this thread is showing the truth.

exhibit A

[TheGreatYacht]

Huh? You only knew 2 argentinians in your f*cking life, Ginobili and Oberto, stop saying bs please and keep talking about this thread. You the Manu haters are mad cause this thread is showing the truth.

BTW my old job required me to deal with all types of Hispanic people around the world so I know a lot about cultures. I may be stereotyping but I know people's tendencies better than the average person. LMAO truth my a*s. People like yourself are the ones that are in denial. Manu is past his expiration date. When will reality hit you?

[perfectdark]

ginobili was bad in game 6...pop should have never playing him this long
but he was huge game 5
and overall game 7 he had a good
I thought duncan miss vs battier was more the reason for our loss in game 7 than his 2 turnovers
there was also a sequence where we stole the ball (who??) and he passed it to green or leonard for a 3 and they missed
anyone rmber this from gm 7? wish he had taken the shot himself

[Diego20]

Manus turnovers are bad enough. His "we" have to play better comments are even more ridiculous. no dude, YOU have to play better. Take responsibility like Danny Green did. You single handedly cost the team the champiobship. Own up and admit it.

In my opinion, saying "we lost because of my fault" is worst than saying "we lost because of all us". You wanted manu say that? WHATTTTTTTTTT?!! This is a sport team, you win together and lose together. Go play Golf or Tenis dear Uzer.

[Diego20]

ginobili was bad in game 6...pop should have never playing him this long
but he was huge game 5
and overall game 7 he had a good
I thought duncan miss vs battier was more the reason for our loss in game 7 than his 2 turnovers
there was also a sequence where we stole the ball (who??) and he passed it to green or leonard for a 3 and they missed
anyone rmber this from gm 7? wish he had taken the shot himself

Yeah I do remember it, Leonard missed the 3 point shot after a steal of Green.

[Brazil]

The problem is not his average turnovers during the POs the problem is 8 T/Os during game 6

but once again I don't understand why people are looking scapegoats everywhere for this lost serie: manu, tp, green etc... people need probably to realize that the fact that their struggles are due to an impressive Miami D effort. Forcing T/Os is one of their main strength, they have the best perimeter defense of the nba.

[boutons_deux]

Defense wins championships, MIA has a great one, and that made adjustments within the series. Pop was out-coached.

[Diego20]

The problem is not his average turnovers during the POs the problem is 8 T/Os during game 6

but once again I don't understand why people are looking scapegoats everywhere for this lost serie: manu, tp, green etc... people need probably to realize that the fact that their struggles are due to an impressive Miami D effort. Forcing T/Os is one of their main strength, they have the best perimeter defense of the nba.

But they were calling him "Turnobili" even before game 6. Btw I agree with the red part.

[ElNono]

The problem is not his average turnovers during the POs the problem is 8 T/Os during game 6

but once again I don't understand why people are looking scapegoats everywhere for this lost serie: manu, tp, green etc... people need probably to realize that the fact that their struggles are due to an impressive Miami D effort. Forcing T/Os is one of their main strength, they have the best perimeter defense of the nba.

Bull ! in 2K14 Miami is nothing on defense! I already had Manu retire there and Iggy took a paycut to be here! These bozos in the FO know nothing!

brb, finishing my "retire Manu" online pe ion, tbh

[D-rob fan]

Maybe his turnovers were lower. His reduced minutes probably contributed to that. But honestly his turnovers this postseason looked to be from poor decisions, bad passing, and bad ball handling. They stood out much worse than a typical turnover. I have always been a huge Manu fan but his poor decision making this postseason was unlike anything any of us were used to seeing on such a consistent basis.

[024]

Turnovers are only one side of the story. Ginobili also shot 40% from the field and 30% from 3 pt land and also shot a lower FT%. So not only did he average more turnovers in the playoffs, his FG%, 3PT%, and FT% all plummeted from his career averages. If that was Kobe or Lebron, Spurstalk would be laughing and taking glee in pointing at how they choked and how finished/overrated they are. Either bring Ginobili back as the 6-7th scoring option for far less money or don't bring him back at all.

[tmtcsc]

There is no myth here. He was awful when it mattered most. Stats don't measure how his bad passes turned in to terrible offensive possessions. Other times, he threw the ball right to the defender who turned it in to points. There were some occasions that defenders got their hands on his passes but knocked the ball out of bounds. That's not counted as a turnover.

Eight turnovers in one game and four in the fourth quarter of a game 7 can't be ignored or explained away. Take in to account who we are talking about too. This is Manu Ginobili, a 3 time Champion and Olympic Gold Medal winner. His play was atrocious. I'm not sure he even realizes how bad he was just yet. His open letter to the Argentinian paper seemed to hint of a bit of denial. Look no further than his terrible FT shooting to see how his head was not in the game. He used to NEVER miss when they counted. It was 50-50 this year. Just bad. I'm getting pissed off just thinking about it again.

[Brazil]

Bull ! in 2K14 Miami is nothing on defense! I already had Manu retire there and Iggy took a paycut to be here! These bozos in the FO know nothing!

brb, finishing my "retire Manu" online pe ion, tbh

NASFs are unbelievable, when you read this board it's like Spurs played Utah Jazz

[ElNono]

I agree with the bad timing, but as Brazil and others have said, Miami deserves a lot of credit for that...

Paul George had 5 TOs in Game 5 and 6 TOs Game 6 in the ECF. David West had 6 in Game 7. Those guys are washed up too?