What should the Spurs do with Manu this offseason?

[DPG21920]

Kawhi is on a rookie deal... if he wouldn't be, he would be getting paid a whole lot more... and yeah you would pay him more than Danny Green, who still can't dribble a basketball or run a pick & roll...

To be fair, neither can Manu when it matters..

[dallasmaverickslose]

HAHA, RC is loyal but he wouldn't hold Spurs hostage by any means.. They'd reluctantly say, "good luck, see you in a season or so when you sign for 1 day so you can retire here". It's nostalgia that blinds a lot of people but Manu is not the be all end all of the Spurs anymore.

As big of a Manu fanboy as I am proud to say, I am absolutely 100% against overpaying him. However, I know that won't happen, because Manu sees the bigger picture. Yes, he's clearly not the player he once was, but that's no reason to garner all the hate he has received. What people on this site are saying about Manu is sickening, quite frankly.

[TheGoldStandard]

Kawhi is on a rookie deal... if he wouldn't be, he would be getting paid a whole lot more... and yeah you would pay him more than Danny Green, who still can't dribble a basketball or run a pick & roll...

Danny has his flaws but Danny is not getting paid 3.5 to dribble the ball, its unfortunate that he hasn't learned to put the ball on the floor when he's run off the 3 point line but at 35 and declining badly he's not worth a 3.5 a year.. that's too much salary to absorb for someone who's not going to be a focal point next year or at least shouldn't be.

[ElNono]

To be fair, neither can Manu when it matters..

He did it for 60+ games this season... heck, I would argue Green looks as good as he does because guys like Tony and Manu...

I suspect even Neal's next salary will easily start at $2m-$3m...

[Spursfanfromafar]

Top 10 Guards/Swing-men above 6'4'' in the league sorted on Win shares/48 minutes -

Rk	Player	Ht	Season	Age	Tm	Lg	G	GS	MP	PER	TS%	eFG%	ORB%	DRB%	TRB%	AST%	STL%	BLK%	TOV%	USG%	ORtg	DRtg	OWS	DWS	WS	WS/48 ▾	FG%	3P%	FT%
1	James Harden	6-5	2012-13	23	HOU	NBA	78	78	2985	23.0	.600	.504	2.4	11.9	7.2	25.7	2.4	1.0	14.9	29.0	116	106	9.8	3.0	12.8	.206	.438	.368	.851
2	Dwyane Wade	6-4	2012-13	31	MIA	NBA	69	69	2391	24.0	.571	.528	4.7	12.6	8.9	26.6	2.8	1.9	13.2	29.5	112	103	6.1	3.5	9.6	.192	.521	.258	.725
3	Kobe Bryant	6-6	2012-13	34	LAL	NBA	78	78	3013	23.0	.570	.504	2.5	13.1	7.9	29.7	1.8	0.6	13.3	31.9	112	107	8.4	2.6	10.9	.174	.463	.324	.839
4	Kevin Martin	6-7	2012-13	29	OKC	NBA	77	0	2136	16.0	.608	.551	1.8	7.4	4.8	7.9	1.7	0.3	10.2	21.0	117	107	5.0	2.0	7.0	.157	.450	.426	.890
5	Manu Ginobili	6-6	2012-13	35	SAS	NBA	60	0	1393	19.0	.560	.502	2.6	13.4	8.3	30.6	2.9	0.7	17.3	25.2	107	100	2.1	2.4	4.5	.155	.425	.353	.796
6	Thabo Sefolosha	6-5	2012-13	28	OKC	NBA	81	81	2229	12.8	.617	.597	3.2	12.4	8.2	8.2	2.4	1.5	11.4	11.4	121	103	3.6	3.1	6.8	.146	.481	.419	.826
7	Martell Webster	6-7	2012-13	26	WAS	NBA	76	62	2200	13.9	.601	.551	2.7	12.2	7.4	10.7	1.2	0.6	11.1	16.9	115	106	3.9	2.4	6.3	.138	.442	.422	.848
8	Vince Carter	6-6	2012-13	36	DAL	NBA	81	3	2093	17.8	.571	.530	3.1	14.4	8.9	15.0	1.8	1.6	10.0	23.1	111	106	3.9	2.0	6.0	.137	.435	.406	.816
9	John Wall	6-4	2012-13	22	WAS	NBA	49	42	1602	20.8	.521	.449	2.4	11.2	6.8	43.9	2.1	1.8	15.3	29.3	105	103	2.2	2.2	4.5	.134	.441	.267	.804
10	Dorell Wright	6-7	2012-13	27	PHI	NBA	79	8	1783	16.0	.551	.508	2.6	17.0	9.6	13.1	1.8	1.5	8.8	18.7	112	105	2.8	2.1	4.9	.132	.396	.374	.851

Manu Ginobili is 5th.

Sort the same on PER, and Manu is again 5th on the list.

Do that for the playoffs and Manu is again 5th on the list on the basis of WS/48 for players who have atleast played two series (for a decent sample size).

Effectively, Manu was the fourth best shooting guard in the league in 2012-13, behind James Harden, Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade. And he was better than Kevin Martin and the rest.

James Harden is going to be (deservedly) paid a max contract next year.

Kobe Bryant is the highest paid player in the league (with an Achilles heel injury ) next year (also deservedly to an extent).

Dwyane Wade will be paid a max contract again next season.

Kevin Martin was paid $10 mil this year and will expect a similar contract.

Other off guards such as Joe Johnson will be paid $20 million for performances that are way below Manu's this season, despite Manu's bouts with injury and his underwhelming play.

The only thing not going for Manu in the group is that he is above 35 and will be playing for his last contract.

Something like $4.5 million per year as the starting offer (for two years) for Manu would be a steal for the Spurs. If he can stay healthy and play a large chunk of his possibly two more seasons for the Spurs, his contract will continue to be a "very valuable" one as has been the case throughout his career.

Unlike what some bums and GNSF buffoons say.

[TheGoldStandard]

As big of a Manu fanboy as I am proud to say, I am absolutely 100% against overpaying him. However, I know that won't happen, because Manu sees the bigger picture. Yes, he's clearly not the player he once was, but that's no reason to garner all the hate he has received. What people on this site are saying about Manu is sickening, quite frankly.

I agree, I think Manu knows his time is short and he's coming back as a mentor to the young guys and whoever they draft.. He'll play but his role will be scaled back and his pay will reflect that.

[DPG21920]

He did it for 60+ games this season... heck, I would argue Green looks as good as he does because guys like Tony and Manu...

I suspect even Neal's next salary will easily start at $2m-$3m...

I'm not arguing salary. I said when it matters.

[ElNono]

Danny has his flaws but Danny is not getting paid 3.5 to dribble the ball, its unfortunate that he hasn't learned to put the ball on the floor when he's run off the 3 point line but at 35 and declining badly he's not worth a 3.5 a year.. that's too much salary to absorb for someone who's not going to be a focal point next year or at least shouldn't be.

You just have no idea how much players are getting paid in this league... Danny was an absolute steal at 3.5/season... if he would've been a free agent this summer, you couldn't get him for less than $5m, easily...

We've been paying Bonner to suck for the past 3 years in the $3m-$4m range... and some people though it was cheap.

I don't care how much you think Manu blows at this stage, he still brings more to this team, both on and off the court than most every player in this team except TD, TP and Kawhi...

[ElNono]

I'm not arguing salary. I said when it matters.

Well, every game matters... and he's certainly not the only one that didn't bring it in some games...

[DPG21920]

Just the majority of them in the finals.

[ElNono]

Just the majority of them in the finals.

I would agree he didn't bring it consistently in these specific Finals.

Game 5 mattered. He brought it.

Not every Spur brought it in every game. I don't think we're holding them to the same standards...

[TheGoldStandard]

You just have no idea how much players are getting paid in this league... Danny was an absolute steal at 3.5/season... if he would've been a free agent this summer, you couldn't get him for less than $5m, easily...

We've been paying Bonner to suck for the past 3 years in the $3m-$4m range... and some people though it was cheap.

I don't care how much you think Manu blows at this stage, he still brings more to this team, both on and off the court than most every player in this team except TD, TP and Kawhi...

Danny's salary was good for what he accomplished last year when they signed him, yeah if he was up for a contract this season he probably isn't a spur because he'd get overpaid somewhere.. I don't argue with the fact that Bonner has been overpaid as well to spread the floor and sit on the bench.. I know what they're paying but this is a year where you have cap space and you have players that won't be around forever, so lets not keep the status quo by paying players more than what they'll contribute over the next 2 years in the roles they'll be playing..

I like Manu, I just don't see him finding that fountain of youth that Timmy found and being productive next year or on a 2nd year to pay him 10 or 12 million a year. The fact that he'll be another year older, the fact that he's probably going to play during the summer should indicate he'll probably break down again this season and his game will drop off. I'm not going to mortgage cap space on the premise that he's going to bring something next year that we can't find in an emerging Kawhi or a better Danny Green.. we have no idea what the Spurs are planning to do in the offseason but lets hope its not overpay Manu.

[DPG21920]

I would agree he didn't bring it consistently in these specific Finals.

Game 5 mattered. He brought it.

Not every Spur brought it in every game. I don't think we're holding them to the same standards...

It's simple. Everyone but one player played well enough to win a le. You might argue Tiago didn't, and I would agree, but he's not a big 3 member.

[TheGreatYacht]

Danny's salary was good for what he accomplished last year when they signed him, yeah if he was up for a contract this season he probably isn't a spur because he'd get overpaid somewhere.. I don't argue with the fact that Bonner has been overpaid as well to spread the floor and sit on the bench.. I know what they're paying but this is a year where you have cap space and you have players that won't be around forever, so lets not keep the status quo by paying players more than what they'll contribute over the next 2 years in the roles they'll be playing..

I like Manu, I just don't see him finding that fountain of youth that Timmy found and being productive next year or on a 2nd year to pay him 10 or 12 million a year. The fact that he'll be another year older, the fact that he's probably going to play during the summer should indicate he'll probably break down again this season and his game will drop off. I'm not going to mortgage cap space on the premise that he's going to bring something next year that we can't find in an emerging Kawhi or a better Danny Green.. we have no idea what the Spurs are planning to do in the offseason but lets hope its not overpay Manu.

Very well said. Having cap space this offseason makes every dollar (ever $1 million to be more precise) very valuable. Teams don't always count on cap space every year so why over pay Manu when every single dollar paid to Manu can be used better elsewhere.

It's simple. Everyone but one player played well enough to win a le. You might argue Tiago didn't, and I would agree, but he's not a big 3 member.

Definitely. Pop and Manu pretty much single-handedly cost us a tle.

[ElNono]

Danny's salary was good for what he accomplished last year when they signed him, yeah if he was up for a contract this season he probably isn't a spur because he'd get overpaid somewhere.. I don't argue with the fact that Bonner has been overpaid as well to spread the floor and sit on the bench.. I know what they're paying but this is a year where you have cap space and you have players that won't be around forever, so lets not keep the status quo by paying players more than what they'll contribute over the next 2 years in the roles they'll be playing..

I like Manu, I just don't see him finding that fountain of youth that Timmy found and being productive next year or on a 2nd year to pay him 10 or 12 million a year. The fact that he'll be another year older, the fact that he's probably going to play during the summer should indicate he'll probably break down again this season and his game will drop off. I'm not going to mortgage cap space on the premise that he's going to bring something next year that we can't find in an emerging Kawhi or a better Danny Green.. we have no idea what the Spurs are planning to do in the offseason but lets hope its not overpay Manu.

We already know he won't be playing during the summer because he already communicated with the NT coach and told him he won't be playing.

Also, there's many different scenarios at play here that might not even matter as far as how much Manu gets paid and the cap situation. As Chinook explained, if the Spurs opt to remain over the cap, then whatever Splitter or Manu get won't really matter.

There's also the possibility that the FO might want to sell him into the mini-mle exception, and he might take that.

The Spurs were on a somewhat similar situation with Tim last summer once his salary came off the book, and they spent enough but kept a certain amount for Tim, which Tim took (around $10m)... I don't foresee this situation being much different.

A vet minimum offer is basically telling him they don't want him back, and I expect the Spurs just to tell him exactly that if that's how they feel. I haven't seen any indication from the FO that they're going that route.

Frankly, there's a lot of chatter about Manu, but I think resigning Splitter might end up being the biggest issue money-wise here.

[ElNono]

It's simple. Everyone but one player played well enough to win a le. You might argue Tiago didn't, and I would agree, but he's not a big 3 member.

I would argue they all played well enough to win a le. As a matter of fact, they played well enough to be a rebound or shot away from a le. I don't particularly have a problem with that, in light of what our playoffs appearances have looked like in the previous 5 seasons.

Could some of them have played even better? Sure. Does that include Manu? you bet. Is that any indicator of future production? I don't think so. Many players have had up and down series through the seasons, including different members of the big 3.

[DPG21920]

rolleyes.

[ElNono]

[ElNono]

BTW, DPG, good to see you talking basketball again, tbh

[DPG21920]

It's what I'm here for.

[ElNono]

Are you gonna take some of these young fellows under your wing? did some already PM you, tbh?

[DPG21920]

I've not found anyone that is pure enough as of yet. But I am here to talk basketball, mentor and give real life advice for all that seek it.

[ElNono]

Sounds like a lot of selfless work...

[TheGoldStandard]

We already know he won't be playing during the summer because he already communicated with the NT coach and told him he won't be playing.

Also, there's many different scenarios at play here that might not even matter as far as how much Manu gets paid and the cap situation. As Chinook explained, if the Spurs opt to remain over the cap, then whatever Splitter or Manu get won't really matter.

There's also the possibility that the FO might want to sell him into the mini-mle exception, and he might take that.

The Spurs were on a somewhat similar situation with Tim last summer once his salary came off the book, and they spent enough but kept a certain amount for Tim, which Tim took (around $10m)... I don't foresee this situation being much different.

A vet minimum offer is basically telling him they don't want him back, and I expect the Spurs just to tell him exactly that if that's how they feel. I haven't seen any indication from the FO that they're going that route.

Frankly, there's a lot of chatter about Manu, but I think resigning Splitter might end up being the biggest issue money-wise here.

For the Spurs sake I hope they don't go the route of keeping the status quo and thinking that they'll be just as good next year. I want to be optimistic but I don't know if Duncan can sustain another solid year like he did and Manu and Parker were both injured last year for long stretches of the season. I do see Pop giving plays to Kawhi but outside of that I don't see them developing anyone else at this point so its time to get athletic with the cap space that they have.

The Spurs should not consider this anything like the deal with Duncan last year.. 2 different players and different impacts on the team. If Duncan were off this team they'd be a s on the inside, would be just a horrible thing to do but we've seen Manu out of the lineup for long stretches with injuries and we've maintained and over the course of the playoffs he didn't have any single performances on consecutive nights that were needed to win games. Vet Minimum is ideal, 1.5 to 2.0 with maybe some incentives to boost the salary. Tiago is going to get overpaid, I just hope not by the Spurs.

[chapnis]

Top 10 Guards/Swing-men above 6'4'' in the league sorted on Win shares/48 minutes -

Rk	Player	Ht	Season	Age	Tm	Lg	G	GS	MP	PER	TS%	eFG%	ORB%	DRB%	TRB%	AST%	STL%	BLK%	TOV%	USG%	ORtg	DRtg	OWS	DWS	WS	WS/48 ▾	FG%	3P%	FT%
1	James Harden	6-5	2012-13	23	HOU	NBA	78	78	2985	23.0	.600	.504	2.4	11.9	7.2	25.7	2.4	1.0	14.9	29.0	116	106	9.8	3.0	12.8	.206	.438	.368	.851
2	Dwyane Wade	6-4	2012-13	31	MIA	NBA	69	69	2391	24.0	.571	.528	4.7	12.6	8.9	26.6	2.8	1.9	13.2	29.5	112	103	6.1	3.5	9.6	.192	.521	.258	.725
3	Kobe Bryant	6-6	2012-13	34	LAL	NBA	78	78	3013	23.0	.570	.504	2.5	13.1	7.9	29.7	1.8	0.6	13.3	31.9	112	107	8.4	2.6	10.9	.174	.463	.324	.839
4	Kevin Martin	6-7	2012-13	29	OKC	NBA	77	0	2136	16.0	.608	.551	1.8	7.4	4.8	7.9	1.7	0.3	10.2	21.0	117	107	5.0	2.0	7.0	.157	.450	.426	.890
5	Manu Ginobili	6-6	2012-13	35	SAS	NBA	60	0	1393	19.0	.560	.502	2.6	13.4	8.3	30.6	2.9	0.7	17.3	25.2	107	100	2.1	2.4	4.5	.155	.425	.353	.796
6	Thabo Sefolosha	6-5	2012-13	28	OKC	NBA	81	81	2229	12.8	.617	.597	3.2	12.4	8.2	8.2	2.4	1.5	11.4	11.4	121	103	3.6	3.1	6.8	.146	.481	.419	.826
7	Martell Webster	6-7	2012-13	26	WAS	NBA	76	62	2200	13.9	.601	.551	2.7	12.2	7.4	10.7	1.2	0.6	11.1	16.9	115	106	3.9	2.4	6.3	.138	.442	.422	.848
8	Vince Carter	6-6	2012-13	36	DAL	NBA	81	3	2093	17.8	.571	.530	3.1	14.4	8.9	15.0	1.8	1.6	10.0	23.1	111	106	3.9	2.0	6.0	.137	.435	.406	.816
9	John Wall	6-4	2012-13	22	WAS	NBA	49	42	1602	20.8	.521	.449	2.4	11.2	6.8	43.9	2.1	1.8	15.3	29.3	105	103	2.2	2.2	4.5	.134	.441	.267	.804
10	Dorell Wright	6-7	2012-13	27	PHI	NBA	79	8	1783	16.0	.551	.508	2.6	17.0	9.6	13.1	1.8	1.5	8.8	18.7	112	105	2.8	2.1	4.9	.132	.396	.374	.851

Manu Ginobili is 5th.

Sort the same on PER, and Manu is again 5th on the list.

Do that for the playoffs and Manu is again 5th on the list on the basis of WS/48 for players who have atleast played two series (for a decent sample size).

Effectively, Manu was the fourth best shooting guard in the league in 2012-13, behind James Harden, Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade. And he was better than Kevin Martin and the rest.

James Harden is going to be (deservedly) paid a max contract next year.

Kobe Bryant is the highest paid player in the league (with an Achilles heel injury ) next year (also deservedly to an extent).

Dwyane Wade will be paid a max contract again next season.

Kevin Martin was paid $10 mil this year and will expect a similar contract.

Other off guards such as Joe Johnson will be paid $20 million for performances that are way below Manu's this season, despite Manu's bouts with injury and his underwhelming play.

The only thing not going for Manu in the group is that he is above 35 and will be playing for his last contract.

Something like $4.5 million per year as the starting offer (for two years) for Manu would be a steal for the Spurs. If he can stay healthy and play a large chunk of his possibly two more seasons for the Spurs, his contract will continue to be a "very valuable" one as has been the case throughout his career.

Unlike what some bums and GNSF buffoons say.