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Can the Spurs sign Manu - Tiago and AK? What would cap situation look like if that were possible.
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Can the Spurs sign Manu - Tiago and AK? What would cap situation look like if that were possible.
To get AK47, maybe the Spurs should pass on Tiago and go after someone who might cost less like Speights. He could be a hidden gem.
Would be a nice fit. And definitely a move for the near term.
I'm not sure where the best place is to ask this question, so here goes. (Info from ShamSports: http://data.shamsports.com/content/p...mberwolves.jsp)
What is Minnesota's cap situation like? Kirilenko opted out, Roy will be waived (since he didn't meet games or minutes benchmarks, his salary is unguaranteed), and Steimsma, Cunningham, and Gelabale are all unguaranteed or have team options.
Adding up their guaranteed salaries (Love, Williams, Barea, Ridnour, Rubio, Shved, Lee, Johnson) gives about $39.3M. Adding cap holds (Pekovic 8.8M, Cunningham 2.7M, draft picks 3M) gives $53.8M. This leaves less than $5M in cap space with a cap of $58.5M.
Does this mean the Wolves can't offer any more than that to Kirilenko? He has a cap hold of 11.7M listed, but since he was only with the team for 1 year, they can only exceed the cap up to the LLE or something, right?
Edit: Budinger signed with the Wolves for 3 years, $16M. I believe this takes up all of their remaining cap space. This means the Spurs can offer much more than the Wolves can, I think. Who else is in the running for Kirilenko?
Last edited by Seventyniner; 07-02-2013 at 04:38 PM.
AK is a non-Bird free agent right now, so the Wolves should still be able to beat the Spurs' offer. Since Budinger is a Bird free agent, they don't have to worry about him affecting their cap space. Here's how it's explained in the CBA FAQ:
NON-BIRD EXCEPTION -- This is also a component of the Veteran Free Agent exception. Its name is somewhat of a misnomer, since Non-Bird really is a form of Bird rights. Players who qualify for this exception are called "Non-Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA. They are veteran free agents who are neither Qualifying Veteran Free Agents nor Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agents, and include the following:
- Players who finished the season with a given team, who have played no more than one season without clearing waivers or changing teams as a free agent.
- Players who were Early Bird free agents, but whose team renounced its right to use the Early Bird exception to re-sign the player.
- Players who were to be Larry Bird or Early Bird free agents, were playing on one-year contracts, and were traded mid-season.
This exception allows a team to re-sign its own free agent to a salary starting at up to 120% of his salary in the previous season2 (not over the maximum salary, of course), 120% of the minimum salary, or the amount needed to tender a qualifying offer (if the player is a restricted free agent -- see question number 43), whichever is greater. Raises are limited to 4.5% of the salary in the first year of the contract, and contracts are limited to four seasons when this exception is used.A partial season counts as a full season for the tenure calculation related to Bird rights. If a team signs another team's free agent to a rest-of-season contract mid-way through the season, then at the end of that season the player is a non-Bird free agent.Starting January 10 of each season, this exception begins to reduce in value. See question number 26 for details.
I don't believe Minnesota's gone under the cap this season, so they still have their exceptions for him and Pek.
how far above the cap are the wolves willing to go, though? With the signing of Buddinger and Pek set to make somewhere around Tiago money (probably even more), they will be hovering right around the cap
Thanks Chinook.
So the reason that the Wolves can match or beat a Spurs offer is that AK would be taking a pay cut. If AK had only made, say, $3M last season, the Wolves could only go up to $3.6M (120% of $3M).
Now the playing time issue with Budinger in the fold is another thing entirely.
Yeah, the Wolves can use a non-Bird exception to pay Kirilenko up to $11.7 Million next season. Since the Spurs don't have that kind of cap space, they can't outbid Minnesota.Thanks Chinook.
So the reason that the Wolves can match or beat a Spurs offer is that AK would be taking a pay cut. If AK had only made, say, $3M last season, the Wolves could only go up to $3.6M (120% of $3M).
Now the playing time issue with Budinger in the fold is another thing entirely.
However, what you said about the cap is interesting, because the Wolves are apparently going after Kevin Martin. They don't have the money to sign him unless they do a sign-and-trade. A three-team deal could be struck to send AK to the Spurs, Martin to the Wolves and a trade exception (and picks) to OKC. The Thunder would then get some leeway to replace Martin in addition to having the MLE.
Wolves have reportedly thrown 4 years/30 million at Kevin Martin
hopefully it would only require the spurs sending two seconds like in the case of Red .
Less than that. The Wolves would need to do the trade as much as the Spurs would. It may just be a highly protected second.
This could be done non-simultaneously, right? Wolves sign-and-trade Kirilenko to the Spurs for a protected second-rounder, giving the Wolves a TE that OC signs-and-trades Kevin Martin into. This leaves OC with their own TE. Better for all parties than straight signings, and it looks like the Wolves can't sign Kevin Martin outright anyway.
Yes, the trades can be done separately, but it reduces the amount of money the teams can take back in the trades. If I understand correctly a TE is only for the player's salary, so there aren't any matching exceptions like there are in simultaneous trades.
A big simultaneous trade could help the Spurs get AK even if they stay over the cap. For example.
If the Spurs send Bonner to Minnesota, Mills to OKC and receive AK at a starting salary of $8 Million. By trading without using cap space, the Spurs can sign Ginobili for whatever they want and still keep the MLE handy.
The Wolves S&T AK to the Spurs and receive Bonner and Martin for $7 Million. They'd be able to do this, because they'd be allowed to take back up to $13 Million for AK in a simultaneous deal.
OKC gets Mills and a either a trade exception of about $5.9 Million or if they involve another team, they can get a player like Ellis making up to $9.9 Million.
So all teams can benefit making a huge trade, but the Spurs and Wolves could be fine just doing a simple one by themselves if they're smart about it.
Good points. The Spurs might balk at the larger scenario as it would help the Thunder, and the smaller trade just between the Spurs and Wolves would still benefit the Wolves enough to where they would perhaps do it.
I'm still wondering how much the Spurs would be willing to offer and whether other teams with cap space would be willing to beat that. It looks like contract length is the most important thing to Kirilenko, but le contention is a card that the Spurs can play.
It gets stranger...the Wolves have evidently agreed to a contract with Kevin Martin: 4 years and $28M or $30M depending on the source.
http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html
One of the tweets there says that the Wolves would have to renounce Kirilenko to make that happen. I don't see how the Wolves have the cap space even then.
It's time for the Spurs to work the phones with the Wolves if they really want Kirilenko. Having to sign him via cap space is much more difficult than a sign-and-trade, even though that sign-and-trade would have to morph into Chinook's idea of Martin to MIN/Kirilenko+TE to SA/TE+pick? to OC.
I don't think the Spurs have any qualms about spending the rest of their cap on Ginobili and Kirilenko. So it really depends on how much Ginobili takes. If he wants less than $6 Million, then I think the Spurs will be able to beat all other offers for him. I don't any team can really say he's worth more than $7 Million a year after seeing him the last two seasons (or rather, not seeing him the season before last). If Ginobili demands to be paid in the $8 Million range, or if Neal comes back, then the team may be forced to either try to sign Kirilenko to the MLE or to try to trade for him.
Large S&T deals like that are pretty rare. The last one I recall was the Marion/O'Neal/Turkoglu/Carter deal a few years ago. There are so many contingencies and moving parts that it's really hard to pull off. But who knows what's going to happen? It really depends on how the Thunder go about trying to replace Martin and how willing a fourth team will be to S&T that replacement (like JR Smith) to OKC.
Yeah, I don't know if the Wolves have their amnesty clause still, but if they don't the only way they can make the cap space is by losing Pek (which may not even give them enough), and that's just an awful concession to make for Kevin Martin.
Maybe the teams already have something figured out.
Spurs fans last remaining great hope for the off-season.
They don't. They used it on Darko. And there's no way they let Pek go.
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