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Yes they would (based on what several of us assumed could be subsequent moves)
I've been trying to tell them. The Spurs are over the cap by A LOT if they want to be. They can certainly get under the cap by amnestying Bonner and renouncing all of their holds, but they were never in danger of losing the MLE if they wanted to keep it.
Yes they would (based on what several of us assumed could be subsequent moves)
The better answer is yes they COULD. The would not have been just by amnestying Bonner.
while i'm personally OK with the deal (not super excited, but at the same time its awesome to know we have Manu for another 2 years), i can't convince myself that he couldn't have been had for less. i really didn't see Manu leaving for another team. he wouldn't be happy. at the same time, it wouldn't be right for the spurs FO to go into the meeting and say "listen, we know ur gna stay here, so he's 3 mil per year." still, he really couldn't have been had for say, 2 years 11 mil? i guess after kevin martin got paid nearly 8 mil per year, it threw a monkey wrench into it. plus red getting what, 5.5 or 6.5 didn't help. manu > red and its still not close
loyalty deal
honestly, it is the same team back who almost won the 'ship but you're gambling on ginobili to be healthy come playoff time next year, this is true more so than any other year
i'd love for both splitter and manu to take around a million less per year, but it is what it is, i was hoping the spurs would bring a couple of new pieces (i.e. backup pg/sf) along with the core of last year's team but meh...
next stop: re-sign neal and blair
Manu just doesn't play enough games, and in the playoffs has too few good games, that contract just doesn't make sense. After the RJ fiasco, the FO became too conservative, they will invest big contracts only in players they positively know that work well in the Spurs system. And it's hard to argue with the success the Spurs enjoyed the last two seasons, but the team really needs some upgrades IMO.
Is Manu still going to play for the National team in the summers?
So, they could have been if they a made another move that's there's no reason to believe that they would have made.
Gotcha.
Some of us think that those two things are not the same, but you go ahead and keep laying this at Manu's doorstep.
It's not market value considering his injury history(will probably miss 40+ games during this new contract) and his inability to step up in the playoffs. We're basically paying someone worse than Danny Green twice his salary. Manu has no business making over 5 million.
Semantics. The point always was, you included, that using simple logic, the Spurs had the potential to quite easily have cap space significant enough to go above MLE. Is it guaranteed? Obviously no, but if the argument is "you can't discuss hypotheticals" well then all of this is just dumb if you have to wait and see what actually happens. It's why several of us knew the range before Manu and Tiago agreed to their deals on what they would be.
smh
So basically your argument is that some of the most knowledgable posters with regards to the game/spurs/cap space (i.e. Timvp, Bruno and to a lesser extent myself) are just making up wild things that are far fetched? Ok.
The reality is, whether you want to go into the weeds or not, is that with a 5M contract for Manu, the potential was there. With this contract, the potential is not there.
definitely not playing this summer
That's telling me
Just the way I called it all along.
No, in general I agree with you. I was one of the people in favor of remaining over the cap, though, so that's why I pointed out the difference. The Spurs still have the leeway to make two major acquisitions this off-season. That would not have been the case if they had gone under. So I tend not to think Ginobili's deal matters too much, since the Spurs should have just cut Bonner if they cared about cap space so much.
i suggested no such thing.
Then that's what you should have said. I don't have an issue with that statement.
I won't speak for Mel, but I think it's more about whether it's right to blame Ginobili. Most likely, the Spurs planned to stay over the cap, which is why he took the deal he did. A lot of people seem to think that Manu prevented the Spurs from being under the cap, and that's probably inaccurate. If the team had a plan to acquire a player with cap space, and they needed Manu to take a little less, he probably would have.
Eh. Renouncing to get far under the cap the so doesn't guarantee they're improved over last year. At very least, at this moment, they've treaded water with the likely possibility of improving via the MLE and by being active S&T players. All the while retaining major cap flexibility in two years.
It's a cart before the horse thing. Bonner still has value to the Spurs. You only cut Bonner if two things happen: first - Manu takes a contract that would result in more cap space than MLE money assuming you amnesty Bonner - second: there is a FA you like enough in that range you can come to terms with.
With the first thing out of the picture, you don't have a reason to amnesty Bonner. I agree it's not the end of the world and if the Spurs can still add a piece that helps, I could care less about Manu's contract (as I said initially). I am just evaluating what I think this deal does to the odds of landing someone like an AK (although it could still happen) based on what info is available.
Overpaid - he's worth $5m at most. For the past 2 years, he's played in only 63% of the games. When he's not injured, he takes forever to even get back into rhythm. His 12-13 regular season free-throw percentage was 79.6% dropped from 87.1 ('12), 87.1 ('11), 87 ('10), 88.4 ('09), 86 ('08), and 86 ('07). His 12-13 playoff FT% was 73.8% - compared to his career 81.6%. It's not just his physical body that's declined. Can you imagine what he'll be like 2 years from now? And after that horrible playoff run, I don't know how he doesn't feel guilty with all those turnovers.
To all those who are saying that we were one free-throw away from a le - I counter that this past playoff was the perfect storm for the Spurs - Kobe/Lakers injured, Westbrooke out, Wade injured. TD had a spectacular year - do we really expect him to play at that level for 2 more years? How much can Leonard improve to offset the decline in the big 3? And lost in all this, is Neal coming back? We fans love to knock Neal and his lack of defense, but the guy puts up points in a hurry and is a big part of the depth that SAS uses to keep the big 3 rested.
Well, I guess ultimately this is where we disagree. Manu had the Spurs (IMO and other's opinion) in a situation where they could not really let him go. They probably laid it out much like Timvp said and Manu took what he felt was market value. He did not do the Spurs any favors and I highly doubt that if the Spurs could have had Manu for 2/10 that they would have just paid him 2/14 because in their plans it made no difference in who they wanted to acquire.
The Spurs coming back with the same team thinking the league will still also be the same.
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