Yahoo: Spurs' talks for Andrei Kirilenko end without deal

[LkrFan]

[mosdef17]

Yeah I'm struggling to think of a way or something that could happen that would end with;

- Spurs getting AK47
- Minny getting Brewer and Kevin Martin

[objective]

If only all they had to do was give up a first to get the deal done. And I know McDonald has a history which makes some people doubt the quality of his reporting (for a variety of reasons), but even I can't imagine him being so dead wrong on Pendergraph.

I'll repeat myself. Adding Kirilenko would be adding another player who would get minutes in any series they would play next year. Can't say that for Bonner. , there's no reason to even say that for Splitter.

Adding a player who can perform like that would upgrade the roster tremendously.

[mosdef17]

Taking a fully guaranteed Bonner would be difficult for Minny because it would likely put them in luxury tax territory given what they still want to do (Brewer and Pekovic). I can only see a S&T for Kirilenko is Bonner's contract is still about $1M guaranteed.

And it would just be so great if McDonald is wrong on Pendergraph's contract. His source could have said him $2M and he take it like $2M per year while it was $2M total. A 2 years min contract is about $2M total.

When trying to think of a deal I'm factoring in finding a team to take either Barea ($4.67m) OR Ridnour ($4.32m) as if they could dump one of those, get a 1st round pick and partially guaranteed Bonner as a filler it starts to look realistic.

[Bruno]

When trying to think of a deal I'm factoring in finding a team to take either Barea ($4.67m) OR Ridnour ($4.32m) as if they could dump one of those, get a 1st round pick and partially guaranteed Bonner as a filler it starts to look realistic.

If they can salary dump Ridnour or Barea, they will have likely enough cap space to just sign Brewer and Martin. It then would seem like the best option for them.

[mosdef17]

If they can salary dump Ridnour or Barea, they will have likely enough cap space to just sign Brewer and Martin. It then would seem like the best option for them.

Yeah and that seems like a very realistic option for them then. I could see a trade happening if it was;

Spurs Receive
Andrei Kirilenko

Spurs Give
Matt Bonner
1st Round Pick
Cash


Minny Receives
Matt Bonner
Player x worth $1m or less
Cash to offset buyout of player x
1st round pick

Minny Give
S&T Andrei Kirilenko
JJ Barea


Additional Team With Cap Space (Charlotte? Dallas) Receives
JJ Barea

Additional Team Give
Player x worth $1m or less


Maybe some fine tuning... but that could be the basic crux of the deal.

[bluebellmaniac]

Bruno, what is your take on these numbers. I have the known numbers from Sham's inserted and I'm using the average for Manu, though his first year should be less. I'm assuming we sign Manu first to reduce his $19M cap hold then use the existing $7.5M cap hold for Splitter. I also assume we renounce Horry, Vaughn, etc as listed on Sham's page.

Am I making any obvious mistake?

Player	2013-14	Notes	Actual Salaries
Manu Ginobili*	$6,746,988	* = not confirmed, using Bruno's number	$6,746,988
Tony Parker	$12,500,000		$12,500,000
Marco Belinelli*		* = assumes Room Exception, will be signed after AK acquisition	$2,652,000
Tim Duncan	$10,361,446		$10,361,446
Boris Diaw	$4,702,500		$4,702,500
Tiago Splitter*	$7,493,600	* = Cap Hold, Actual around $9M	$9,000,000
Matt Bonner	$3,945,000		$3,945,000
Danny Green	$3,762,500		$3,762,500
Kawhi Leonard	$1,887,840		$1,887,840
Nando De Colo	$1,463,000		$1,463,000
Patrick Mills	$1,133,950		$1,133,950
Cory Joseph	$1,120,920		$1,120,920
Aron Baynes	$788,872		$788,872
Total salaries:	$56,159,628		$60,318,028
Salary Cap*	$58,679,000	* = just announced cap numbers	$58,679,000
Salary Cap Space	$2,772,384		($1,386,016)
Matt Bonner + NDC Savings	$5,408,000	If MB and NDC somehow are not on the roster (Amnesty, trade, etc)	Total Salary w AK
Avail Sal Cap + 100k*	$8,280,384	* <-- What we can offer AK47 if we renounce everyone, dump MB and NDC salaries (somehow) and get him via a S & T.	$68,345,400

[bluebellmaniac]

Yeah and that seems like a very realistic option for them then. I could see a trade happening if it was;

Utah Give
S&T Andrei Kirilenko

Under the new CBA, AK can only do a S&T with the team he was on last season. So it would have to be through Minny. Minny would have to play nice with us in order for this to happen. Doesn't look like they are amicable to it at the moment. Hopefully just playing hardball for a slightly better deal from us, but are willing to help us out.

[mosdef17]

Yeah I meant Minny not Utah.. My brain is fried!

[td4mvp2k]

[bluebellmaniac]

So without a S & T, if we dump Bonner and trade NDC, we can straight up sign AK47 under the normal salary cap for $7,690,204 (after 1 roster charge, hopefully we don't need to reduce this by 2 roster charges), or for $8,280,384 with a trade.

[Bruno]

So without a S & T, if we dump Bonner and trade NDC, we can straight up sign AK47 under the normal salary cap for $7,690,204 (after 1 roster charge, hopefully we don't need to reduce this by 2 roster charges), or for $8,280,384 with a trade.

You need to add 2 rosters charges for a cap space signing. Spurs will have 10 players/cap holds (Ginobili, Parker, Duncan, Diaw, Splitter, Green, Leonard, mills, Joseph and Baynes) and they must have 12 players/cap hold.

For a S&T, 1 roster cap hold must be added.

Basically, It's $7.2M for a signing and $7.8M for an "empty" S&T. If you salary dump Mills to, it will add $0.6M to these numbers.

[bluebellmaniac]

You need to add 2 rosters charges for a cap space signing. Spurs will have 10 players/cap holds (Ginobili, Parker, Duncan, Diaw, Splitter, Green, Leonard, mills, Joseph and Baynes) and they must have 12 players/cap hold.

For a S&T, 1 roster cap hold must be added.

Basically, It's $7.2M for a signing and $7.8M for an "empty" S&T. If you salary dump Mills to, it will add $0.6M to these numbers.

I was hoping that on the S & T that it would be considered simultaneous and since the ending roster would have 12, we wouldn't get a roster charge on that one.

It seems ridiculous that for the straight up FA signing that the 2nd roster charge isn't rolled into his salary.

Thanks Bruno, I'll update that post with the roster charges added. I think it helps everyone understand the situation when they see real numbers laid out.

[objective]

and of course that's only if they are using the ROOM on Belinelli and not spending 2 million a year on Pendergraph.



Otherwise, Belinelli and Pendergraph line up perfectly to use up the rest of the capspace and the room and calling it a season.

[Bruno]

I was hoping that on the S & T that it would be considered simultaneous and since the ending roster would have 12, we wouldn't get a roster charge on that one.

In a S&T, only the ending roster matters and it must be below the cap+$100K. I just have the ending roster with 11 players (the 10 players given above + Kirilenko).

[bluebellmaniac]

.

[Bruno]

and of course that's only if they are using the ROOM on Belinelli and not spending 2 million a year on Pendergraph.

Yep, it's basically assuming McDonald screw up in his Pendergraph contract report which seems unlikely.

[SpursSerb]

To sign Kevin Martin, Minny will need cap space. If they keep Kirilenko bird rights, which they must if they want to S&T him later, of if they have Bonner+filler in their payroll, they won't have the money to sign Kevin Martin.

Right now, a Kirilenko S&T isn't dead. It will be when Minny will officially sign Kevin Martin.
One can hope Minny will have today a last minute change of heart because, if Denver stick with refusing a Brewer S&T, a Kirilenko/Martin S&T is the only way for Minny to also get Brewer.

Well let us pray then

[Johnny RIngo]

Sounds like Manu ed the Spurs hard this summer. Destroyed their chances of championship last season and continuing to do so this season. Going to laugh so much when his annual injury results in him missing 40+ games. Mr. Argentina doesn't seem to understand the meaning of sacrifice like Tim Duncan does..

[Russo21]

11 mil this season for manu/bonner

lol so much for 'best front office in the NBA' house offseason. Cost us a real shot at Kirilenko by the looks of it.

[cd98]

Any chance a player like Manu gives up a little money after the fact to get Kirilenko. Knowing the Spurs are close might help.

[benefactor]

Disappointing. Hopefully they can resuscitate talks and find a way to make things work.

[bluebellmaniac]

Bruno, if we sign AK47 via a S & T for $7.8M and end up $100k over the salary cap (Minny would get a TPE and a draft pick and we'd amnesty Bonner and send NDC to a 3rd team), would the MLE then kick in? Then we could sign Belinelli and Pendergraph via the MLE? ... still looking for ways...

A straight up salary cap signing is unworkable and off the table at this point with the Pendergraph agreement...

[spursnatic]

1. If Manu takes less money, the Spurs could have fit AK47 under the cap without relying on the sign-and-trade.

2. Well, at least we now know officially that AK47 was the main target.

3. Could there be any life here? Could Woj/Ludden be floating this rumor to try to nudge the T-Wolves into action? Eh ... probably not.

4. $8-9M person is a lot of Kirilenko. I'd be more comfortable at ~$7M range.

5. If the Spurs were active in sign-and-trade talks and were willing to give up assets, I wonder if they'll move on to another target...

Manu?.. Splitter sorry ass is who robbed us..Me personally, I would've let him sign elsewhere?

[purist]

Spurs fans turn on their own do easily.must be the "new" fan; old school fans seem to have more loyalty and are less knee jerk reactionary. Seems like many of you would be happier with mark Cuban as owner/GM.