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You're acting like Dwight is Kareem. He gets owned by Duncan pretty consistently. Its basically just him on Houston ( in the post). Its not like Asik is going to crush us.
Where to begin.
1. He is the 4th leading scorer on at le contender. The 2nd option is also an post player. He still manages 10.8 ppg (as a starter). He also shot 56% FG and 74% FT. That is extremely efficient. Throw in some fantastic rim protection and solid passing and you have one of the better Centers in the league (not top 5, obviously but top 10 easily).
2.JJ Hickson?!?! Really? Portland Fans have a joke about him " Hickson tried to defend himself against the criticism thats he's a bad defender, until it cut into the lane for an uncontested layup" He is a poor defender, which is shame cause he is an excellent rebounder and athletic. They picked Robin Lopez over Hickson for a reason. One can protect a basket, one can't. He'd be fine in a more limited role as a 4/5 combo off the bench, but with a better defender along side him.
3. Against the Clippers (in the playoffs), the Spurs packed the paint and dared anyone to take a jumper against us. It worked well, Paul couldn't penetrate. Griffin fell into a trap of shooting jumpers, he couldn't make, and Jordon was a non factor. They actually played Kenyon Martin over him despite signing him to a $40 million dollar extension the off-season before. Splitter can definitely defend the post, but sending help off poor shooters makes plenty of sense. Why have Zbo possibly score against him, insted send Green off and front the post or double hard to keep him from getting in his moves.
4. Spitter seldom played Bogut, His coverage was Landy, Ezeli and Lee (if memory serves me correctly). Duncan had some trouble of against him. He's big and can score in the P&R. We still won the series pretty handily.
5. Splitter is the ideal option for Splitter. He keeps his, hands high and moves his feet and lower body well. He forces them into a very difficult shot & you're giving Howard way too much credit as a post player. Putting Asik is suicide the floor spacing would be non existent, forgot Lin, Parsons and Harden from getting anywhere near the rim. P&R would be ineffective because neither can shoots from outside of 5 feet. Both are horrid FT shooters, Pop would be in heaven. Asik has no interest in playing together or coming off the bench in a much reduced role. He wants out and Houston, may be inclined.
He was pretty effective in the OT of game 3. He came up big and put the proverbially nail in Memphis.
He was a bench player in '11 vs OKC. He strugged but improved his FT shooting drastically, paving the way for him to start. He can improve still, 28 is rather young for a Center. He will figure things out, part of it is confidence. He needs to finish stronger and not shy away from contact as much. Thats a correctable flaw. He really doesn't get blocked very often. It happened 3 or four times in a 3 game span and you claim its a problem. He uses the rim to protect his shot from defenders and his left hook is hard to block (because its a left hook).
Pop pulled him, instead of having him defend Mike Miller. Our small ball rotation was actually pretty darn good. Having him play 6 minutes in between the 1st and 2nd and 3rd and 4th allows Duncan plenty of rest and still gives the Spurs rim protection and potientally some offense.
This contract is solid, and he will have a bettter season as a full time starter (he came off the bench for 23 minutes, repressing him real numbers). Our starting lineup is fantastic on both sides of the ball. Hopefully Kawi won't miss 20+ games (78-80 games played would be great) Parker & Duncan both missed more than a dozen games. Better health could yield even better results for the Spurs and Splitter.
You're acting like Dwight is Kareem. He gets owned by Duncan pretty consistently. Its basically just him on Houston ( in the post). Its not like Asik is going to crush us.
sometimes I just can't understand Pop...1 Splitter foul early in the game & he will yank him out for long min. on the benchPop pulled him, instead of having him defend Mike Miller.
And what do we do with Randolph? Marc Gasol? We need a C if we're going to be a legit contender, otherwise we're 2nd or WCF fodder every year. Yeah, maybe he was situational, but those situations will happen in the playoffs, and we'll need him. 95% of the year, he was instrumental to our success...I'll pay $9 mill for 95%.
Cause we all know Dwight is a great post player. And can take over a game with his back to the rim.
Memphis has issues. But can still be a threat, I suppose.
I like the Splitter deal. People here are drastically overrating D12 as a post player. He is a much better P&R player.
I'm not overrating him..I said he's legit...he is. Say anything else and you're not paying attention...he's a double double every time he steps on the court. He's a cancer in the locker room, but he's still a legit big man.
Just like it took Pop alot of time to trust Horry, Nesterovic, Mohammed, Oberto, Elson.
We don't do small ball better than the Heat. The only reason we had a chance was because of our defense backed by two seven footers.
He's a situational player whose "situation" is that he's effective against about 28 teams in the league.
Yep...so we play him against those teams, work on his game against the others, and try him out against them. If it ain't working, sit his ass down and bring in Boris.He's a situational player whose "situation" is that he's effective against about 28 teams in the league.
Someone like JJ Hickson? Hickson played for Blazers last year and Blazers decided to ffer 4 years 36M contract to Splitter instead of resigning with Hickson for 3 years 15M. Why did they do that?
To be fair Portland has made a lot of mistakes in the past.
... and considering manu will play only 20mpg and play in only 50 games makes it more ludicrous
Disagree. Splitter hardly played in game 6 & 7 but we our defense was still very strong. Diaw/ Duncan was a better tandem IMO.
I said Howard can't score in the post. He can get double-doubles but alot come off of the glass, P&R's and free throws. He is legit just not Duncan in his prime. People are assuming him as the 2nd coming of Shaq. He is just not that guy.
God no...I agree. I was responding to you saying I was acting like he was Kareem...never said anything like that. I'm just saying he's a legitimate big that we would need a big to cover.
Even though I qouted your original post, I didn't necessarily mean that you thought he was Kareem. I was more or less annoyed with the notion in general that Dwight is this monster in the thread. Its not entirely true. He can be a 20 pt 15 board guy ,sure, but most of that is coming from other area's. We have more than enough size to challenge him. They will go small and Duncan/Splitter have enough size to cover him. If all else fails, foul hm and watch hm go 4-10 from the line.
1. Houston isn't a top-3 team in the west until they prove it...and Howard was owned by Baynes for God sakes. Memphis is the only playoff team in the west with two competent bigs that must be defended together.
2. This "going rate" bull has to stop. I get it...teams overpay for size. That doesn't make it the right basketball decision for the Spurs to do it. What's worse is that Splitter got two years beyond Duncan's likely retirement. Without Duncan, I expect Tiago to be much less effective than he is now on both ends of the court.
3. Yes, Millsap is "undersized". He's also the complete threat offensively that Splitter is not. And it's not that he's terrible defensively either...just doesn't play the Center position and give the illusion of a "big" frontline. He also took a deal that would've ended along with the big 3 and provided maximum cap flexibility that offseason.
Look, I'll admit that losing Splitter would've been a hit to the defense played by the first unit...but they had options to stay relevant (e.g. Millsap, trade exception from S&T) and not overpay.
1-Splitter was great on Howard. He was great on Gasol (2) and Randolph. He was great on Ibaka in the regular season this year. He was great on Bosh in the Finals. He's the best pick-and-roll defender on the team. Nuff said.
2-If everyone "overpays" for something, then it's not overpaying -- it's literally just paying the going rate. That's why people said it, because Splitter's value IS actually what he got, not some deflated number some posters try to pretend it is. For god's sake, he was one of the league leaders in WS/48 and top 15 in both offensive and defensive rating. He was probably worth even more than he got when we get right down to it.
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Last edited by Chinook; 07-13-2013 at 06:49 PM.
That's a lie, he was never great on Ibaka this year. Actually Ibaka had his worst game against the Spurs at the beginning of the season with Boris starting.
You do tend to massively overate some Spurs players...
With Boris starting :
Serge Ibaka, PF 31 2-7 0-1 0-0 1 8 9 0 0 2 1 5 -8 4
With Splitter starting :
Serge Ibaka, PF 39 10-16 0-0 5-6 5 12 17 1 0 3 3 2 +24 25
Serge Ibaka, PF 36 4-8 0-2 5-6 4 12 16 0 0 3 2 4 +4 13
Serge Ibaka, PF 34 5-9 1-1 0-0 3 8 11 1 0 3 0 4 +13 11
Also Bonner was just as good on Randolph who was fronted and triple teamed anyway...
That's about the most superficial analysis I've ever seen. You can't just look at box scores and lineups. There are a lot of factors, such as if the Thunder played a lot of small-ball (which pushes Ibaka on Duncan) or whether Splitter played the four primarily or the backup five (regardless of him starting). And having Diaw be a better defender wouldn't make Splitter a bad one, anyway.
Regardless, even if I conceded Ibaka to you, do you care to say that he wasn't great on Bosh, or the Gasols? I know you don't like him, so you're inclined to think he was bad on Howard for some reason. But his mobility was a huge help in Golden State, and he was great in Memphis, not only on the bigs (who were never triple-teamed -- they didn't need to be) but was also the main reason the series didn't go at least five with his defense on Conley at the end of regulation in Game 3.
You can have a counter-argument without being a condescending asshole. Why are you laughing off Millsap when he's posted superior PER and overall stats over the last three years? And, yes the extra $500K/yr would be worth not paying $17M for two years in the post Big-3 era.1-Splitter was great on Howard. He was great on Gasol (2) and Randolph. He was great on Ibaka in the regular season this year. He was great on Bosh in the Finals. He's the best pick-and-roll defender on the team. Nuff said.
2-If everyone "overpays" for something, then it's not overpaying -- it's literally just paying the going rate. That's why people said it, because Splitter's value IS actually what he got, not some deflated number some posters try to pretend it is. For god's sake, he was one of the league leaders in WS/48 and top 15 in both offensive and defensive rating. He was probably worth even more than he got when we get right down to it.
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I'm guessing you feel Splitter is worth exactly what he got, or more. I just happen to think the opportunity cost of retaining Splitter was higher than he'll actually return. We probably won't agree, so maybe we leave it at that. I said when he signed that I neither loved or hated it, so it's really not worth arguing anymore.
Well I don't think he sucks, he has quick feet for his size so he's good at defending the PnR I agree with that much.
I think it's a bit weird to bring up his Finals, I also don't remember his limited minutes in that series in details but I remember Bosh being left open a lot on purpose...
He was good against Memphis yeah and indeed made the best play of his Spurs career on Conley but still...
Ultimately I think they're paying for not disrupting a good thing and not having to find someone else at this stage of Tim's career more than for how good he really is on his own.
Is it worth it? Who knows, I don't really like it but it might turn out to be.
I did not intend to sound like a jerk. But really, this is like the 500th time someone's stepped up and said Player X is worth more than Splitter and Tiago is overpaid and that he wouldn't do anything without Duncan ... When really, there are no stats which indicate that. The whole of people's discontent comes from Splitter's performance in the Finals, which was admittedly bad but which certainly doesn't make him less valuable that the contract he got. Millsap is a good player, but he's not better than Splitter for what the Spurs need. In every advanced stat besides PER, Splitter comes out ahead. Even in career PER, the two of them are tied.
Splitter is legitimately one of the top-10 bigs in the league at making his team better. He deserves much more credit for the Spurs' success than he gets. He has is flaws and he's not untradeable, but there was not a realistic upgrade out there. Only Chandler (and maybe Howard) would really do a better job starting next to Duncan than Splitter has. Really, he's helped Tim nearly as much as Tim has helped him.
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