Wizards interested in Blair, looking at a S&T.

[Hoops Czar]

Ariza's been on the block for years now. That's why he's been trade twice already. Both times were pretty much just as salary filler. He's not that good. In fact, if his deal weren't expiring, I don't think very many people on this board would want him............

You're underselling Ariza's value and overvaluing Blairs. I'm not sure what your point is about a players value versus the number of time said player's been traded. Does Garnett not have value because he's been traded twice? Whether or not he's been on the block by Washington in the past is debatable, but now they have Porter and Webster which makes Ariza expendable. However, that doesn't mean the Wizards are just going to give him away and they aren't going to bend over backwards to take the Spur's junk to make the trade work.

We also don't know how much interest Washington has in Blair. If the price tag is too high, the Wizards will just move on without giving it a second thought. Blair isn't crap, but he doesn't have much value either. You're also making assumption that the Spurs aren't interested in anything Washington has. Who here thought the Spurs would be interested enough in Pendergragh to sign him to a two year deal, using part of the MLE?

[Chinook]

Thought we were discussing both but I meant Ariza in that last post but I think you meant Afflalo, my bad

Yeah, I really just need to sticky the post of something, since you're like the fourth person who's gotten on my case about this.

Ariza: Good addition due to his defense, shooting and expiring contract. He's attainable because he doesn't have high stock around the league after several years of mediocre or worse production. Definitely worth Blair and Bonner.

Afflalo: Not a good addition due to contract amount and length. With his height, he's just a shooting-guard who wouldn't be an upgrade over Green or Ginobili. Doesn't address the backup three situation. Not worth the long-term commitment and definitely not worth the first-rounder in the proposed trade.

[Leetonidas]

Gotcha. I disagree about Afflalo, I think he is a decent player, he's not chopped liver or anything. But I agree on his salary and length of his contract, wouldn't want to pay Ginobili money for someone who isn't even as good as Ginobili

[Chinook]

You're underselling Ariza's value and overvaluing Blairs. I'm not sure what your point is about a players value versus the number of time said player's been traded. Does Garnett not have value because he's been traded twice? Whether or not he's been on the block by Washington in the past is debatable, but now they have Porter and Webster which makes Ariza expendable. However, that doesn't mean the Wizards are just going to give him away and they aren't going to bend over backwards to take the Spur's junk to make the trade work.

Garnett's only been traded once on this contract. He was good enough to get a no-trade clause added to his deal and even when he was traded on his last contract, it was only with his blessing. About the weakest comparison I've ever seen. Add to that that Ariza's been a terrible contract since the day he signed with Houston, and there's no way to assume he still has value. As I've said several times, he may not go to the Spurs, but he won't be traded for anything the Spurs couldn't have offered themselves. He simply just has not value around the league anymore. And that's a shame, because he's not as bad as he's seemed the last several years. Still massively overpaid.

We also don't know how much interest Washington has in Blair. If the price tag is too high, the Wizards will just move on without giving it a second thought. Blair isn't crap, but he doesn't have much value either. You're also making assumption that the Spurs aren't interested in anything Washington has. Who here thought the Spurs would be interested enough in Pendergragh to sign him to a two year deal, using part of the MLE?

You should go back and read the OP and the connected articles. The Wizards approached the Spurs about a trade for Blair. The Spurs weren't too thrilled with anything the Wizards had to offer, which is why nothing's really happened so far. That's not my speculation -- that's what is currently believed by the media. I think most of us on this board would be fine with not getting Ariza. Really, I'm just saying what I would accept for Blair if I were the Spurs. They don't really have anything else that would make sense. I'd rather just let Blair walk. And before you talk about me overrating Blair and underrating Ariza, that's pretty much the consensus opinion on the matter.

[playblair]

celtics are trading Humphries .................. bonner & colo 4 Humphries...............

[spursince#99]

Firstly, he's actually not one of the options, its pure speculation. Secondly, i am only debating his fit as a stretch 4, not as a player, i love him as a player, just not as a 4, I'd rather have him on the 3 and Kawhi at the 4 if anything. The debate was simply about who is more suited to be a smallball 4 between Ariza and Kirilenko, and i was simply saying it's Kirilenko, nothing more than that.

The debate was not about who'd be more suited to be a smallball 4 between Ariza and Kirilenko. It was strictly regarding Ariza and if he'd be capable of playing smallball 4 which I personally think he could for a stretch, especially in the West. Pay more attention before you reply to a quote.

[benefactor]

Hoop Czar...you'd think the Wizards are giving away Kevin Durant hearing him talk about it.

It's not about value or whether or not he's worth Blair. They just drafted a SF with the #3 pick. They just gave another SF 22 million dollars. There is absolutely no reason to pay yet another SF 7.7 million this season...and it's not like teams are going to just line up to pay it for a player that can is only useful in a limited role. They are getting something they want and getting rid of an overpaid something they don't need. It's pretty simple.

[Raven]

The debate was not about who'd be more suited to be a smallball 4 between Ariza and Kirilenko. It was strictly regarding Ariza and if he'd be capable of playing smallball 4 which I personally think he could for a stretch, especially in the West. Pay more attention before you reply to a quote.

Unlike Ariza, Kirilenko can play PF.

as you can see, the comparison was there from the start.

[pad300]

Now this is both interesting and relevant to this discussion:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...-Power-Forward

Bonner + Blair for Ariza + ???

[Chinook]

Indeed it's making more and more sense.

[benefactor]

Now this is both interesting and relevant to this discussion:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...-Power-Forward

Bonner + Blair for Ariza + ???

And there it is. They want a stretch four. They want Dejuan Blair. They need to get rid of an overpaid SF. The Spurs need an SF. Not ing rocket science.

[TXstbobcat]

So trading Blair is the blockbuster trade for the spurs this off season.

[Hoops Czar]

.............

Now you're moving the goal posts. What does Ariza being overpaid have to do with the price of tea in China? Ariza was signed to a contract based on previous production. That wasn't a Garnett comparison, it was merely a reactionary response to your ridiculous point about Ariza's value vs being traded twice, which really doesn't make any sense. Ariza was traded to New Orleans because Houston acquired Kevin Martin and they didn't want to pay a substantial tax bill. Washington didn't trade for Ariza because they thought he was underwhelming garbage. Along with Okafor, he dramatically improved the team's defense that was 19th in the league in botth opponents ppg and opponents FG%. In fact, most teams make trades as an attempt to improve the team rather than hinder it. For those players that don't live up to their contract, Ariza can join the club of many. Ariza still has value on the defenseive end, was regularly atop the league in steals per game prior to joining the Wizards, his length and athleticism allows him to guard multiple positions and get into the passing lanes, something that will increase turnovers and generate fast break opportunities. He just wasn't a good fit in Washington'p, but he could thrive in San Antonio. Blair's major contribution is rebounding and that is basically the extent of his value. His defense is horrid and his scoring ability is suspect at best. He's a back end of the rotation big at best. And Bonner would have to be coupled in the deal and teams don't want Bonner even as an expiring unless the goal was to immediately release him. Just ask Flip.

[Kindergarten Cop]

So trading Blair is the blockbuster trade for the spurs this off season.

Getting something we desperately need for someone we were going to let walk - and perhaps get someone to take Bonner off our hands (even though I appreciate what he brings more than most on this forum) is enough to get a LOT of fans excited.

[spursince#99]

as you can see, the comparison was there from the start.

That's not what you quoted dude.

[Dverde]

Wiz drafted Otto Porter to play. This isn't the NFL where people are groomed for a year. They are definitely looking to move Ariza or Singleton if not now, at the trading deadline. If it doesn't go down, its because the Spurs wouldn't give up Bonner. No way they are looking to move Seraphin for an asset like Blair unless the Spurs include draft picks or overseas rights.

[Uriel]

at people discussing Ariza. They clearly did not read the second part of Woj's tweet.

[Kindergarten Cop]

at people discussing Ariza. They clearly did not read the second part of Woj's tweet.

This:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--wi...170127120.html

Woj isn't saying that Spurs aren't interested in what Wizards could offer for Blair. He says he doesn't know.

[Rogue]

Spurs ain't gonna take on any more salaries imho, as they must ensure that their payroll stays below the line of luxury tax. Blair is a championship-caliber role player and it's gonna be a pity to let him walk that's why the 9m/yr signing of Splitter was a bad business (by spurs' standard at least). they could've saved the money and split it between Blair and Splitter imho.

[pad300]

Spurs ain't gonna take on any more salaries imho, as they must ensure that their payroll stays below the line of luxury tax. Blair is a championship-caliber role player and it's gonna be a pity to let him walk that's why the 9m/yr signing of Splitter was a bad business (by spurs' standard at least). they could've saved the money and split it between Blair and Splitter imho.

Last I checked, the current (all signings included) 2013/14 payrolls for the spurs was roughly $62 Million. The lux tax is at $71 Million. They are not worried about the lux tax. Especially with an S&T that has some salary beyond Blair leaving...

[Kindergarten Cop]

Blair is a championship-caliber role player and it's gonna be a pity to let him walk that's why the 9m/yr signing of Splitter was a bad business (by spurs' standard at least). they could've saved the money and split it between Blair and Splitter imho.

[Leetonidas]

Bonner + Blair for Vesely and Ariza is a pretty good deal for both sides imo

[Dverde]

Spurs ain't gonna take on any more salaries imho, as they must ensure that their payroll stays below the line of luxury tax. Blair is a championship-caliber role player and it's gonna be a pity to let him walk that's why the 9m/yr signing of Splitter was a bad business (by spurs' standard at least). they could've saved the money and split it between Blair and Splitter imho.

Portland, Bucks, or Mavs would have given Tiago 8M a year if not more. Maybe Tiago stays with SA for less, but we'll never know as SA offered what he was probably going to be offered.

[Chinook]

Now you're moving the goal posts. What does Ariza being overpaid have to do with the price of tea in China? Ariza was signed to a contract based on previous production. That wasn't a Garnett comparison, it was merely a reactionary response to your ridiculous point about Ariza's value vs being traded twice, which really doesn't make any sense. Ariza was traded to New Orleans because Houston acquired Kevin Martin and they didn't want to pay a substantial tax bill. Washington didn't trade for Ariza because they thought he was underwhelming garbage. Along with Okafor, he dramatically improved the team's defense that was 19th in the league in botth opponents ppg and opponents FG%. In fact, most teams make trades as an attempt to improve the team rather than hinder it. For those players that don't live up to their contract, Ariza can join the club of many. Ariza still has value on the defenseive end, was regularly atop the league in steals per game prior to joining the Wizards, his length and athleticism allows him to guard multiple positions and get into the passing lanes, something that will increase turnovers and generate fast break opportunities. He just wasn't a good fit in Washington'p, but he could thrive in San Antonio. Blair's major contribution is rebounding and that is basically the extent of his value. His defense is horrid and his scoring ability is suspect at best. He's a back end of the rotation big at best. And Bonner would have to be coupled in the deal and teams don't want Bonner even as an expiring unless the goal was to immediately release him. Just ask Flip.

Ariza being overpaid has everything to do with his trade value below. I can't even believe you even tried to suggest it doesn't. He doesn't have a lot of value because he's not a worth his contract. If Ariza were making $2 Million a year, no one would care that he's been pretty bad since leaving the Lakers. But since he's making so much money, he's not as attractive to teams. That's simple trade economics.

Your comparison of Ariza's and Garnett's situations was just silly. Garnett was traded twice over the course of six years because he asked/allowed himself to be. Ariza was moved twice on the same contract (three times total) because he teams didn't want him anymore. Houston moved him because they knew he wasn't worth is deal and thought that Courtney Lee could do what Ariza did. Washington took his contract so they could get Okafor. The Hornets only got a second-rounder out of that deal, so you better believe they considered getting rid of Ariza an asset on the trade ledger. Neither time did Ariza's former team get back a quality player for him. I don't know why you believe Washington will.

You can polish him up as much as you want to make it seem like he's some great asset, but the fact remains that he's been pretty bad since leaving a well-structured offense. He would be a good fit for the Spurs, but he's not worth much to any team right now. It says a lot about a team's opinion of a player that they not only drafted his replacement but also handed out the full MLE for a player to back up his replacement. Even if the Wizards have as skewed of a view of Ariza's value as you're demonstrating, they just completely undercut his value this off-season. No way they get anything like you're suggesting they will. If they want Blair and think he can help them win games, there's no reason to keep holding out.

[cd021]

well it was with ariza on the floor.

He missed 22 games. And played only 26 mpg, including only 15 starts. Your acting like he was a big part of a juggernaut defense.

New Orleans was 15th the season before, in defensive rate. He started 41 games and played 33 mpg.