Lakers: Steve Nash: Lakers' offense will be more fluid without Dwight Howard

[Clipper Nation]

i don't suppose you have a source for that? i'd never heard anything about him demanding a trade. it was my understanding that the trade was a pure salary dump, and they completely lucked out that marc was as good as he turned out to be.

The only thing I can find is him telling a Spanish website in 2006 that he was "thinking of changing teams"....

http://archivo.marca.com/edicion/mar...lo/689129.html

[ambchang]

WTF r we talking about here? The Lakers and Grizzlies made a great trade for themselves. The Lakers were ready to win a championship but needed another piece to the puzzle, in 2008 Pau was all over ESPN for vocally criticizing the Grizzlies and demanded to be released from his contract. He even threatened to leave and go play for Spain by the end of the year if he wasn't traded.

The Grizzlies saw he was too good for that particular unit and invested in the near future, they knew what Marc Gasol was and the fact they got picks from the trade and an expiring contract in Kwame Brown was a huge homerun. Just because some internet message board members didn't realize Marc's potential doesn't mean they didn't. They invested in the future. You can cry all you want about how it helped rapist win another 2, but it made sense.

It amazes me how much you guys let the hate blind you from understanding the business perspective of basketball.

What's with Laker fans and rewriting history?

First it was LA Lakers winning 16 les, somehow thinking Minneapolis is part of LA. Will you be counting the NBL one any time soon and say you tied with the Celtics?

Then it was calling themselves the dominant team of the 80s when they shouldn't even have won the 87 and 88 les if it wasn't for Stern suspending the entire Houston team for doing drugs when the entire league was on it.

Then acting like the world went into a time warp and the 90s never happened.

Then it was Shaq and Kobe had equal billing.

Then it was Kobe missed the playoffs in his prime because his team was horrible when he had decent help and NO superstar player has EVER missed the playoffs in his prime since the funky format in the 70s.

Then it was Kobe only lost to the Suns in the 1st round when he had horrible teammates when his teammates did very well in that series.

Then it was Gasol trade was a fair trade. There was better offers for Gasol (Bulls, Washington, Sota) but was turned down.

Then people treated Gasol as some support player when the Lakers played about a billion times with him on the court than with him off the court (regardless of whether Kobe was there).

Then they act like the Lakers didn't need a historically bad FTA advantage to make the playoffs.

Then they act like the Lakers with Kobe wasn't a 9th seed, and didn't make the 7th seed in 3 games with him in a boot.

Then they act like they never wanted D12 and it was actually the Lakers choosing to let D12 go.

This may have worked in 1995, but in the day of the internet, we can look things up and dismiss your blatant lies.

[ambchang]

I'm not sure that is the case, but I clearly remember hearing reports that Pau wanted to go and play in Spain because he was tired of Memphis being a non contender. I think he demanded to be traded to a contender like the Lakers.

I understand the frustration from Spurs fans, they don't get easy miracles like that for their organization and its always an us against the world at ude with your fan base, and understandably so, but the trade made a ton of sense as we now see the Grizz are solid contenders and probably WCF or Finals bound for the next few years.

I call bull . Quote an article.

And even if you could find it, that doesn't stop bulls having a clearly better trade package than LA.

On the other hand, I can easily find dozens of articles talking about how the trade was one of the worst fleece of all time.

[djohn2oo8]

WTF r we talking about here? The Lakers and Grizzlies made a great trade for themselves. The Lakers were ready to win a championship but needed another piece to the puzzle, in 2008 Pau was all over ESPN for vocally criticizing the Grizzlies and demanded to be released from his contract. He even threatened to leave and go play for Spain by the end of the year if he wasn't traded.

The Grizzlies saw he was too good for that particular unit and invested in the near future, they knew what Marc Gasol was and the fact they got picks from the trade and an expiring contract in Kwame Brown was a huge homerun. Just because some internet message board members didn't realize Marc's potential doesn't mean they didn't. They invested in the future. You can cry all you want about how it helped rapist win another 2, but it made sense.

It amazes me how much you guys let the hate blind you from understanding the business perspective of basketball.

No one knew what Marc Gasol would turn out to be. At the time it was considered the most lopsided trade in history for a reason, a straight salary dump. But since it's easy for you to look back on it now and say it was a good trade, go ahead.

[ambchang]

First off, The Gift! led to Z-Bo and Fat Gasol. Great trade for the Lakers (3 Finals appearances). Great trade for the Grizz (cap relief and 8).

at the bolded. If I were bandwagonning like you are insinuating, why didn't I join ST a few weeks after The Gift! went down?

Pop ing because up until 6, you guys were Dead Men* Walking after The Gift! went down. Neal with sn

*One of your players is not really a man.

Twisting bull again. Getting cap relief and signing Z-Bo are separate transactions.

Fat Gasol was a 2nd round pick back then who hasn't played a single minute back then.

Brown's expiring was actually the prize in that trade. Everything else was a throw in.

Comparing to the Bulls, who had been working all year on a trade that the Griz rejected over and over again, the Lakers package was obviously worse.

[spurraider21]

i don't suppose you have a source for that? i'd never heard anything about him demanding a trade. it was my understanding that the trade was a pure salary dump, and they completely lucked out that marc was as good as he turned out to be.

I call bull . Quote an article.

And even if you could find it, that doesn't stop bulls having a clearly better trade package than LA.

On the other hand, I can easily find dozens of articles talking about how the trade was one of the worst fleece of all time.

silence. Pau demanded a trade

[ambchang]

Of course, it's only human. Everybody claims otherwise, but, it's pure bull . I hope Howard, slips, falls and breaks his leg. If he plays I hope he puts you thru a living with the free throws. I hope he runs off McHale's white ass. And I hope Asik takes a fit and makes in the middle of the locker room.

You got one way, bub:::
make the playoffs
win the last game you play.

Otherwise, I'm comin' after your fandom, and daddy-O, I'm comin' hard. & this? Please. This will be a Sunday ing school picnic compared to what I have in store for your asses.

- Pappy

And there's a difference between 5 & 6.
And there's a difference between LeBron at 2 and Bosh gettin' lynched in South Florida.

Could you at least keep your logic consistent in the same thread?

[ohmwrecker]

Sounds like early onset Alzheimer's tbh. Skeletor probably thinks he's going to make it through the season without a career ending injury. Defense?! If he took a charge at this point, he would probably explode into dust. His two middle-aged daughters will need to lead him around by the elbows to and from the games. He is going to knit all his teammates sweaters for Christmas. He is probably going to spend his bench time in a hyperbolic chamber . . . I'm saying the dude is old.

[Buddy Mignon]

Chicago offered Noah, Sefalosha, Nocioni, Tyrus Thomas, and picks for Pau IIRC and got turned down, mainly because Jerry West stepped in to gift him to the Lakers for garbage (and no, how good Marc is in 2013 doesn't change the fact that he wasn't a good trade asset in 2008)....

Even Memphis' owner at the time came out and admitted he didn't get the most value possible in return for Pau.... there's a reason why the only people who insist that trade was fair and above-board to this day are Lakerfan

No, you jackass. All Memphis wanted was Deng and Thomas. Chicago paused and we swooped in and gave them the tools to become a top level team in the West.

[Thread]

Could you at least keep your logic consistent in the same thread?

6

[vma16]

What's with Laker fans and rewriting history?

First it was LA Lakers winning 16 les, somehow thinking Minneapolis is part of LA. Will you be counting the NBL one any time soon and say you tied with the Celtics?

Then it was calling themselves the dominant team of the 80s when they shouldn't even have won the 87 and 88 les if it wasn't for Stern suspending the entire Houston team for doing drugs when the entire league was on it.

Then acting like the world went into a time warp and the 90s never happened.

Then it was Shaq and Kobe had equal billing.

Then it was Kobe missed the playoffs in his prime because his team was horrible when he had decent help and NO superstar player has EVER missed the playoffs in his prime since the funky format in the 70s.

Then it was Kobe only lost to the Suns in the 1st round when he had horrible teammates when his teammates did very well in that series.

Then it was Gasol trade was a fair trade. There was better offers for Gasol (Bulls, Washington, Sota) but was turned down.

Then people treated Gasol as some support player when the Lakers played about a billion times with him on the court than with him off the court (regardless of whether Kobe was there).

Then they act like the Lakers didn't need a historically bad FTA advantage to make the playoffs.

Then they act like the Lakers with Kobe wasn't a 9th seed, and didn't make the 7th seed in 3 games with him in a boot.

Then they act like they never wanted D12 and it was actually the Lakers choosing to let D12 go.

This may have worked in 1995, but in the day of the internet, we can look things up and dismiss your blatant lies.

DAAAAMN... hope you got some lube before putting it in

[LkrFan]

The Gift did not lead to ZBo, sn.... ironically, Memphis can thank the Clippers for having ZBo, since drafting Blake and clearing cap space for the summer of 2010 led Dunleavy to dump ZBo (who at the time was still a fat headcase and locker-room cancer) on the Grizz.....

I'm speechless. Ww

[LkrFan]

Twisting bull again. Getting cap relief and signing Z-Bo are separate transactions.

Fat Gasol was a 2nd round pick back then who hasn't played a single minute back then.

Brown's expiring was actually the prize in that trade. Everything else was a throw in.

Comparing to the Bulls, who had been working all year on a trade that the Griz rejected over and over again, the Lakers package was obviously worse.

BSNF maaaaaaaaaaaaadddd as . So mad, she can't even think straight. If they didn't have cap relief (that the generous LA Lakers gave him ), they wouldn't be able to afford signing him to det 4-year extension in 2011. If not for Kwame's expiring contract, 8 never happens. The Gift! led to one of the biggest stains in Spur History. I'm so happy that the LA Lakers were part of it. N wonder CIA Pop was salty at the time.

[ambchang]

LOL, how stupid can you be? The trade led to a cap relief. Whether that cap relief led to something beneficial was not known at the particular time of the trade. Those are two separate transactions, and cannot be lumped into one. That's like saying Magic getting HIV resulted in Shaq and Kobe, because the Lakers wouldn't have the 13th pick in 96 otherwise, and LA wouldn't have the necessary cap room to sign Shaq if Magic was still chugging at that point, just some stupid argument that Laker fans like yourself like to twist and try to make the trade sound less fishy that it really is.

Second, Grizzlies were getting offers for Gasol that would ALSO turn into cap relief. The fact that they traded Gasol to LA for the worst possible trade on the table at the time while West was with the Grizzlies smells fishy as .

Third, chain of events arguments are things that only people trying to twist history makes. And no, losing to an eighth seed isn't that big of a deal, it speaks to the ability of the Grizzlies more than anything. I would be much more concerned if the Spurs missed the playoffs during his prime without missing significant playing time due to injuries.

[LkrFan]

LOL, how stupid can you be? The trade led to a cap relief. Whether that cap relief led to something beneficial was not known at the particular time of the trade. Those are two separate transactions, and cannot be lumped into one. That's like saying Magic getting HIV resulted in Shaq and Kobe, because the Lakers wouldn't have the 13th pick in 96 otherwise, and LA wouldn't have the necessary cap room to sign Shaq if Magic was still chugging at that point, just some stupid argument that Laker fans like yourself like to twist and try to make the trade sound less fishy that it really is.

Second, Grizzlies were getting offers for Gasol that would ALSO turn into cap relief. The fact that they traded Gasol to LA for the worst possible trade on the table at the time while West was with the Grizzlies smells fishy as .

Third, chain of events arguments are things that only people trying to twist history makes. And no, losing to an eighth seed isn't that big of a deal, it speaks to the ability of the Grizzlies more than anything. I would be much more concerned if the Spurs missed the playoffs during his prime without missing significant playing time due to injuries.

You're adorable when you maaaaaaaaadd as . Check mate.

[ambchang]

You're adorable when you maaaaaaaaadd as . Check mate.

I can't stand idiots.

[LkrFan]

[whitemamba]

I can't stand idiots.

how do you deal with your self?

[whitemamba]

I can't stand idiots.

how do you deal with your self?

hehe

[ambchang]

how do you deal with your self?

I am generally happy with myself. But I just go hulk when i converse with Kobestans.

[ambchang]

Is this some kind of hieroglyph that somehow cons utes as an argument, or are you resorting to you animal grunts again?

[whitemamba]

I am generally happy with myself. But I just go hulk when i converse with Kobestans.

duly noted.

[LkrFan]

Is this some kind of hieroglyph that somehow cons utes as an argument, or are you resorting to you animal grunts again?

Is English your 3rd language?

Anywho, I guess I'll respond to your post:

LOL, how stupid can you be? The trade led to a cap relief. Whether that cap relief led to something beneficial was not known at the particular time of the trade.

Who cares if it were known? They didn't get fair value (talent wise). That's not what the Grizz were after. They needed cap relief and to rebuild. Sure, they gave us their franchise player. It's funny how assholes like you bemoan it. How soon did we forget he was -12 before The Gift! He was an afterthought to Spur Fans until he put on the purple and gold.

Those are two separate transactions, and cannot be lumped into one. That's like saying Magic getting HIV resulted in Shaq and Kobe, because the Lakers wouldn't have the 13th pick in 96 otherwise, and LA wouldn't have the necessary cap room to sign Shaq if Magic was still chugging at that point, just some stupid argument that Laker fans like yourself like to twist and try to make the trade sound less fishy that it really is.

Now you just talking . Just FYI - the Logo had been signing players to contracts that were either easily movable or expired around 1996. He had been fielding athletic teams that were fun to watch and compe ive enough to attractive to FAs (like Shaq who left a more stacked Orlando team to go westward). at Magic's HIV having anything to do with it. That was just a dumb thing to say.

Second, Grizzlies were getting offers for Gasol that would ALSO turn into cap relief. The fact that they traded Gasol to LA for the worst possible trade on the table at the time while West was with the Grizzlies smells fishy as .

You sound salty as . And why not? Since The Gift! it's Lakers 2, Spurs 6. And for the record, both teams benefitted from The Gift! as we saw in 2011 and 2013 (6). The Grizz made a brilliant business move. I applaud them for their astounding business a en.

Third, chain of events arguments are things that only people trying to twist history makes. And no, losing to an eighth seed isn't that big of a deal, it speaks to the ability of the Grizzlies more than anything. I would be much more concerned if the Spurs missed the playoffs during his prime without missing significant playing time due to injuries.

It is when they tanked on purpose to see you guys in the first round. It's like they called their shot, went out and did it. And TD just laid down and took it like a woman.

[ambchang]

Is English your 3rd language?

Yes, in fact it is. I would imagine a person like you would recognize a typo of having "you" instead of "your". But given your love of emoticons, I may be wrong.

Anywho, I guess I'll respond to your post:

Who cares if it were known? They didn't get fair value (talent wise). That's not what the Grizz were after. They needed cap relief and to rebuild. Sure, they gave us their franchise player. It's funny how assholes like you bemoan it. How soon did we forget he was -12 before The Gift! He was an afterthought to Spur Fans until he put on the purple and gold.

It is critical that it was known. What eventually happened wasn't the issue here. The issue was that the gift was su ious, what happened 5 years down the line has nothing to do with what happened in 07. Chicago gave them cap relief AND better young talent, and yet was repeatedly rejected.

And no, I never held his playoff record against him. Teams win in the playoffs due to matchups. An individual has much greater impact in the regular season.

Now you just talking . Just FYI - the Logo had been signing players to contracts that were either easily movable or expired around 1996. He had been fielding athletic teams that were fun to watch and compe ive enough to attractive to FAs (like Shaq who left a more stacked Orlando team to go westward). at Magic's HIV having anything to do with it. That was just a dumb thing to say.

That was the point in saying how ridiculously stupid your argument of the trade led to Z-Bo. I am glad you can see the stupidity in that.

You sound salty as . And why not? Since The Gift! it's Lakers 2, Spurs 6. And for the record, both teams benefitted from The Gift! as we saw in 2011 and 2013 (6). The Grizz made a brilliant business move. I applaud them for their astounding business a en.

Holy crap! Did you just stumble into the field of enlightenment all of a sudden? People has been talking about the gift being su iously advantageous to the Lakers for 7 years, and you now just realized it? Perhaps we should put this conversation on hold for 7 years, and you can actually come back and talk about what everybody already knew all along. Maybe in 7 years, you may realize my Magic HIV example was to point out how stupid your Z-Bo argument was all along. See you in 2020.

It is when they tanked on purpose to see you guys in the first round. It's like they called their shot, went out and did it. And TD just laid down and took it like a woman.

Memphis was a terrible match up for the Spurs, and people still act like Manu wasn't injured in that series. It was similar to the Lakers this year, Kobe, a 3rd wheel, got hurt, and while it helped the Lakers make the playoffs, stopped them from coming within single digits in any of the games vs. the Spurs. If Kobe played, the Lakers may have been within 10 points in one of the four games.

[LkrFan]

- ^ maaaaaaaaaaddd again.