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Julius Erving meets Scottie Pippen ceiling
I love Kawhi and I think he will be a great player for years to come, but how good can he be? I think he can be a Shawn Marion type player with a better jumpshot.
Julius Erving meets Scottie Pippen ceiling
An All Star that never gets selected for the All Star game.
Al Horford of small-forwards.
20pts/20 rebounds/10 steals/2 assist average.
Leonard is borderline Top 5 of the strongest position in the league currently (behind only Lebron, Durant, and Melo definitively) while Horford is maybe Top 10 of a middle-of-the-pack position. Not all that great of a comparison.
As for his ceiling, no real idea. If his success as of late isn't a product of the system, a perennial All-Star.
Somewhere between Paul George and Scottie Pippen, though without the passing ability of either
He's at least sixth behind Paul George right now, and as soon as next draft happens, Leonard will be even farther back. I don't even think the consensus is that he's above SFs like Gay and Pierce, even though I personally think he'll be above them and Anthony next season.
Meanwhile, Horford is tremendously underrated. He's one of the best two-way bigs in the league. If he could find his way to the San Antonio in two years, I think the Spurs may be able to keep their championship window open for the first year or two after the Duncan era. That's no small compliment to Horford and by extension Leonard.
I think there's a legitimate chance to place him above Paul too after next season. Leonard showed more in his second season than PG did.
As for Horford, I think he's underrated, but not by a lot. We'll see next season how good he is IMO. As of now, though, I have Duncan, Dirk, both Gasol's, Love, Noah, Bosh, Hward, KG, Aldridge, Lopez, Bynum (when healthy), Hibbert, and Chandler over him.
Not quite Tim Duncan, but I think he has the ceiling to be the 2nd best Spurs player ever and even win an MVP award. Great athlete, tough, and already has a killer mindset with balls of steel. We got a real steal.
So you have him ranked 13th among all big men (essentially between 6 and 7 for either position), and think Leonard is about 5 or 6 in small-forwards. That's pretty much the same thing. And that's with you putting him above George for extremely dubious reasons and disregarding the other small-forwards who will be entering the league soon. I don't think the Horford comparison is too far off at all.I think there's a legitimate chance to place him above Paul too after next season. Leonard showed more in his second season than PG did.
As for Horford, I think he's underrated, but not by a lot. We'll see next season how good he is IMO. As of now, though, I have Duncan, Dirk, both Gasol's, Love, Noah, Bosh, H
Pippen-esque
I'm talking about currently. Leonard may drop down a couple notches when Wiggins and Parker enter the league, but he could also surpass every 3 not named James, Durant, or Anthony. Mind you I'd take Leonard over Melo these days even with Melo being decidedly better at this time.
As for Horford, he's a 4 that plays the 5, so I considered all bigmen in the league. Going by players strictly at the 4, I'd take Duncan, Dirk, Gasol, Aldridge, Love, KG, and Bosh over him now. The 4 also happens to not be as important as the 3 these days as well, so I took that into account. We can also look at some of the young big men currently in the game who are going to surpass Horford possibly by this upcoming season in Davis and Drummond. That would dump him down to Top 15.
This is also taking into account small-ball lineups which include three wings and only one big. Leonard is a near Top 5 3/small-ball 4 (in this case I put Harden and a 100% Wade ahead of Leonard) while Horford is ranked 14/15 for bigs. Now you could elevate Horford's overall importance due to the lack of skilled bigs in the league, and in that case the comparison makes more sense to me, but in terms of position Leonard is more like the Love of PFs (without the whining).
I'd take Horford over Love, Aldridge, Garnett and probably Dirk nowadays. I consider him about top-five in power-forwards and top-10 in centers.
I'm a big George fan and because he carried a level of offensive responsibility this past season that Leonard has yet to, while playing far more minutes and still doing the things Leonard does best at roughly the same level or better in some cases, I'd give him the edge for now . . . but long term, I'd lean towards Leonard, because he's shown, unequivocally, that the higher the stakes get, the better he does.
James, Durant and Anthony, are obviously the clear cut three best SF's in the league. I still give Pierce the slight edge over both George and Leonard for fourth, but they'll probably surpass him next season.
Hard to pinpoint Leonard's exact ceiling. It's difficult to imagine him becoming a top ten player, but then, who thought Parker would become a top five one? Something like top 20, a handful of All-Star games, All-Defensive team selections, maybe a few third team All-NBA's and maybe even a spot on the 2016 or 2020 Olympic team (if NBA players are still in it), seems attainable.
I can see the argument for Garnett and Aldridge, but Dirk is still pretty damn good and Love, when healthy, can kill you in many different ways too.
Unless the talent pool in the league picks up soon, I can see Leonard breaking the Top 10. Although next year's draft looks to be 2003-esque, with the impending retirement of the NBA's old guard (Duncan, Kobe, KG, Pierce, Dirk, Nash, maybe even Gasol and Wade) I think the overall level of skill in the NBA won't improve.
A utility man that can be a major x-factor and provide multiple game plan options for an elite team. Third option on offense, second at best. More all-defense selections then all-star.
I like that Horford is a two-way player who can play multiple positions. That's huge for teams like the Spurs and Heat which run flex systems. If he were on the 2015 purs, for example, he could start next to Splitter at the four and then slide over to the five with Leonard being the four and hold his own very well. Love can't do that. Dirk is really good (assuming he stays healthy), but I don't like his defense enough. I could see Dirk still being better, but I'd rather have Horford.
I would take Horford over KG and Aldridge on the Spurs too because of how similar to Splitter he is (but better). However, when looking at them individually, I can make arguments for both being better. As for Love and Dirk, Love would compliment Splitter in the post-Duncan era greatly with his range and rebounding while keeping Leonard at the 3. I also think Love is mobile enough to play the 4 when other teams go small (this may change tho). Dirk would help the Spurs win now and if he were on the team over any other 4/5 option, I think the Spurs would win another championship easily (provided everyone remained healthy).
Except for making free throws in a potential Championship clincher...but of course, I won't crucify the kid for that. He just can't ing do that again in his career...EVER.
He had been struggling with FTs all playoffs long. If you told me he'd of gone 1 of 2 in that situation, I'd of taken it tbh. Manu was the one who needed to seal the deal tbh. He was in the same damn situation earlier in the season in that Suns game and I figured he'd never let it happen again, albeit the stakes were much higher and it was a high-pressure situation.
That can happen to anyone. Unless it becomes a career long trend in those situations, I wouldn't read into it, especially considering that he scored the Spurs only two field goals in overtime, then was one of their two best players in game seven.
Robz, I wouldn't rule it out, but I'd say 15-20 is more likely. I can think of 18 off the top of my head who figure to be either roughly as good or clearly better for a good portion of his prime: Rose, Irving, Drummond, Curry, Harden, Howard, George, Griffin, Paul, James, Love, Lopez, Davis, Anthony, Durant, Westbrook, Valanciunas, Wall. Obviously, that's not counting '14 and beyond, plus a few young players already in the league, that I didn't list, that will inevitably vault into that class.
He's a big boy and he's paid alot of money so making the only free throws that ever really mattered to get the biggest prize he can get in his profession of choice shouldn't be too much to ask. He had to make both and failed. I will agree that as the veteran and future HOF, it was worse for Manu to miss his free throw, especially since he's been a good FT shooter throughout his career...but we can't completely absolve Kawhi, either. With that said, I can't wait to see him take the next step next season.
Out of those you listed I agree with the following:
Irving
Harden
Davis
Lebron
Durant
George (in terms of being about equal)
I wanna see what Rose and Westbrick look like next season before deciding on them, but Curry, Howard, Griffin, Love, Melo, Wall, Valanciunas, and Drummond are all either injury-prone like crazy, on the decline, or just not good enough to be an elite player even in the current NBA.
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