Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 46
  1. #1
    Believe.
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Post Count
    22,886
    The addition of hundreds of thousands of new jobs in the last two years and a soaring real estate market are leading the economic recovery in California, among the states that had been hardest hit by the recession.

    But while California’s sheer size means its recovery is good news for the nation’s economy as a whole, many of the reasons experts cite for the turnaround are particular to the Golden State – including its geographic location, strong technology sector, and the quirks of its political leadership – meaning its success may not translate easily to other regions of the country.

    And optimism about California’s recovery is somewhat tempered by the state’s severe, long-term fiscal challenges and the fact that two of the economic sectors fueling the jobs comeback – health care and trade – face uncertain futures, analysts say.

    One indication of the rebound in the housing market is the dramatic year-to-year jump in the median price of homes in California’s six southern counties – the state’s most populous. According to La Jolla-based DataQuick, home prices were 28.3 percent higher in June than they were a year before, the fastest such rise in 10 years. That puts the median home price at $385,000, up from $300,000 in June, 2012.

    And, after having the second highest unemployment rate in the nation for nearly two years – it hovered roughly at 10 percent – California’s current rate of 8.5 percent is now ninth in the country. Between April 2011 and April 2013, the state added 639,600 non-farm wage and salary jobs, or more than 300,000 per year. The state added another 16,800 jobs in May and 30,200 in June.

    “The bottom line is that the technology sector in San Francisco and San Diego has been soaring and everyone has been building new commercial space,” says Steve Levy, president of the Center for the Continuing Study of the California Economy (CCSCE). “All of the data is showing California outpacing the nation in jobs for 24 months.”
    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2013/07...America-follow

  2. #2
    Veteran scroteface's Avatar
    My Team
    Dallas Mavericks
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Post Count
    730
    lmfao like california is some guiding light. that's a failed 3rd world state flooded with crime and illegals. can we kick them the out of the US?

  3. #3
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Post Count
    20,699

  4. #4
    Veteran Th'Pusher's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Post Count
    6,130
    I love it when conservatives get angry when California does well.

  5. #5
    Veteran
    My Team
    Houston Rockets
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Post Count
    2,176
    lol. lol. lol. lol. lol. lol.

  6. #6
    Veteran Th'Pusher's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Post Count
    6,130
    ^^^ like that

  7. #7
    Veteran
    My Team
    Houston Rockets
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Post Count
    2,176
    I hear china's economy is pretty kickass right now too. We should emulate that model

  8. #8
    Veteran scroteface's Avatar
    My Team
    Dallas Mavericks
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Post Count
    730
    I love it when conservatives get angry when California does well.
    Honestly though all trolling aside you can't possibly spin it as "California doing well" by any metric. They're so in debt and ed up it's not even funny. It's like when a black person gets into law school and makes it to the US senate and every other minority goes wild and blindly votes for them..it's just the exception not the rule. Even a blind squirrel is bound to find a nut every once in a while imho still wouldn't want to be California. It's a shame too, it used to be a pretty great place with cool people similar to Texas until the cooks moved in. The rural parts are still nice though.

  9. #9
    Veteran Th'Pusher's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Post Count
    6,130
    I hear china's economy is pretty kickass right now too. We should emulate that model
    Instead of cranking out ridiculous straw, why not address the facts of the article...do you not agree with the metrics the author uses to measure success?

  10. #10
    Veteran Th'Pusher's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Post Count
    6,130
    Honestly though all trolling aside you can't possibly spin it as "California doing well" by any metric. They're so in debt and ed up it's not even funny. It's like when a black person gets into law school and makes it to the US senate and every other minority goes wild and blindly votes for them..it's just the exception not the rule. Even a blind squirrel is bound to find a nut every once in a while imho still wouldn't want to be California. It's a shame too, it used to be a pretty great place with cool people similar to Texas until the cooks moved in. The rural parts are still nice though.
    In all honesty, this is really a sub-par troll.

  11. #11
    Veteran InRareForm's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Post Count
    8,644
    it is?

  12. #12
    Believe. AntiChrist's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Post Count
    1,369
    Up next, Detroit

  13. #13
    Believe. boobie4three's Avatar
    My Team
    Cleveland Cavaliers
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Post Count
    712
    Ten California Cities in Danger of Bankruptcy
    Posted by Post Scripts @ 20 June 2013


    A er. This farm city in the Central Valley declared a fiscal emergency in October with a $3 million deficit and appeared poised for a bankruptcy filing. City leaders say they pulled the city back from the brink after winning concessions from unions to cut costs. The deal cuts pay 5% for city workers, including police. Last month, voters approved a half-point sales tax increase to 8%. The city has cut jobs but struggled as costs on a new water treatment plant exceeded $85 million in bond financing.

    • Azusa. This city east of Los Angeles saw its credit rating downgraded in 2012 by Moody’s and branded with a negative outlook by Standard & Poor’s. Analysts cited low general fund reserves, which fell to $50,000, or 0.17% of expenses, last August. A 2011 audit found the city’s general fund balance was almost entirely in restricted land assets.

    • Compton. Bond-rating agency Standard & Poor’s downgraded, then stopped rating, this Los Angeles County city’s credit, citing the lack of an independent auditor’s opinion, structural deficits and weakened finances. The city has ran annual deficits that reached $40 million and are still projected at more than $9 million this year, and borrowed from dedicated accounts when its general fund ran short. It has laid off 15% of its employees and reduced services, from law enforcement to canceling a popular annual gospel concert. Standard & Poor’s said a 2011 audit was incomplete because of allegations of fraud and abuse of public money and a lack of response from the city to auditors’ questions. The city once known for crime disbanded its police force and now relies on Los Angeles County sheriff’s deputies — and was saddled with $369,000 in late fees for falling behind on payments to the county for those police services.

    • Fresno. This Central Valley agricultural hub has been beset by annual deficits despite big cuts in spending and services, including a 25% reduction in the city workforce since 2009. Its credit rating was downgraded in 2012. The city has a $16 million deficit this year. In January, Standard & Poor’s gave Fresno’s credit a negative outlook “due to our view of the city’s significantly deteriorated financial position.” The city faces bigger annual payments for retired public workers because of poor investment returns for its defined benefit plan, the agency said. Fresno, like neighboring Stockton, has seen its financial stress compounded by double-digit unemployment in the region. The city is asking voters in June to approve privatizing garbage collection, which would produce a cash windfall of more than $10 million plus $2.4 million a year in franchise fees. City workers are fighting the change and pe ioned to force a public vote on the plan.

    • Hercules. This Contra Costa County city near San Francisco saw its credit ratings collapse seven grades to non-investment quality in 2012 as finances weakened and analysts questioned the city’s future willingness to repay debts. The city notified creditors last September that it “does not anticipate there will be any available funds” for debt payments “in the foreseeable future.” S&P says the city plans to use $4.5 million in unspent bond proceeds to pay debt service on other bonds but questions whether payments will be made when that money is exhausted. State Controller John Chiang issued audit reports in March saying, “The city’s books were so poorly managed that I must question their use of every single federal and state dollar.” Hercules has laid off 40% of public workers and last year defaulted on a bond payment, triggering a lawsuit.


    • Mammoth Lakes. The mountain resort city filed for bankruptcy protection, then withdrew its pe ion last year after agreeing to a budget restructuring plan making settlement payments on a lawsuit that it lost. A developer, Mammoth Lakes Land Acquisition, filed suit charging that the city had breached a 1997 agreement to develop a hotel and condo project. The Hot Creek project stalled over federal objections that it would be too close to a planned airport runway expansion. A $30 million judgment, plus legal fees, against the city was upheld on appeal, and the city’s liability grew to $42 million, 2˝ times its general fund budget. Standard & Poor’s says the city remains under financial pressure and rates its bonds at junk status.

    • Monrovia. Standard & Poor’s sharply downgraded the city’s credit rating, citing a “substantially weakened general fund and liquidity position” coupled with the possibility it could lose pending litigation with a developer. It said the city’s general fund consisted “entirely of restricted and non-spendable assets.” Faced with declining tax and other revenue sources, the city cut staff 17% and reduced services, including street repaving, to balance its budget. Monrovia is 20 miles east of Los Angeles and one of several small cities along the foothills of the San Gabriel Mountains.

    • Oakland. Plagued by high crime and lower revenue, this city on the east side of San Francisco Bay has cut police and other services while struggling to stay solvent. It has endured budget shortfalls of $318 million over the past six years and since 2008 has eliminated 16% of its workforce, or 720 jobs, while reducing pay and giving workers unpaid furloughs. Even with a recovering economy, the city is facing a $19 million shortfall in the coming year and projects a deficit of $35 million or more in 2015 as financial concessions made by public-employee unions expire and pension and retiree health benefits climb. The city has reduced its police force by 25% since 2009, to 626 officers, and the California Highway Patrol is helping police the city.

    • San Jose. Being home to much of Silicon Valley’s tech riches has not spared the nation’s 10th-largest city from financial stress. The city has run 11 consecutive general fund deficits, and though it still has reserves, Standard & Poor’s downgraded San Jose’s credit rating in 2012 and branded it with a negative outlook, saying it still faces “long-term structural pressures.” The city has cut workers’ pay 10% and outsourced jobs but still foresees a $5.5 million deficit next year and nearly $14 million the year after. City officials say their biggest problem is retirement costs, which soared from $73 million in 2001 to $245 million last year. Cuts in public pensions approved by voters last fall are being challenged in court by unions. “Long-term budget obligations have outgrown the current revenue structure,” Standard & Poor’s said in January.


    • Vernon. The smallest incorporated city in the state, with a population barely over 100, is an industrial center neighboring Los Angeles with 1,800 businesses and 55,000 jobs in 5 square miles. Vernon has a history of corruption and was the subject of a scathing report by the state auditor last July that said the city doesn’t have enough revenue to pay for the services it provides. The audit found Vernon operated with annual deficits in its general fund for more than 20 years, increasing spending and salaries while tapping dedicated funds, reserves, asset sales and other transfers. The audit said Vernon engaged in speculative investments without effective risk evaluation, including an “unreasonable” natural gas deal that has cost it millions. It cited loose contracting practices and found problems in 21 of 25 city contracts examined, including lack of compe ive bidding. It said Vernon had weak internal financial controls and “may have provided legally questionable retirement benefits to certain current and past executives.” The city turned back efforts in the Legislature to disincorporate it last year and adopted reforms, but the auditor said some policy changes have not been implemented and others will take years to achieve. USA Today

    Not far behind these ten are Chico, Oroville, Red Bluff, Marysville and Paradise. California now leads the nation in municipal bankruptcy filings. Stockton is the largest city yet to file for bankruptcy, marking a new low point in a trend sweeping California. Thank you democrats! Could you possibly be doing any worse?

    Liberal democrats in Sacramento have single handedly taking the richest and most highly rated State down to it’s knees like a 3rd word country in the hands of a dictator. The policies of liberal democrats have ruined the State’s credit, ruined the school system, increased the drop out rate, raised welfare and more. Speaking of welfare did you know that California accounts for 32.62% of all the welfare rolls in the entire country? In 2013 we added an increase of 6.5%!

    Democrats have forced on us the highest paid legislation in the nation, the highest paid state workers to be found anywhere, the worst performing legislature in the nation that must take full credit for chasing away businesses and jobs at a record rate. These fat cats in Sacramento have caused us to pay the most in taxes and get the least for it and they’re still raising taxes (see ACA 8).

    Police and fire layoffs, bankrupt cities, failing schools, massive welfare, over regulation…none of this seems to matter to the voters of California, they voted the rascals in and they will re-elect them. That much you can count on! -Jack


    http://www.norcalblogs.com/postscrip...er-bankruptcy/

  14. #14
    Veteran Th'Pusher's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Post Count
    6,130
    Ten California Cities in Danger of Bankruptcy
    Posted by Post Scripts @ 20 June 2013


    A er. This farm city in the Central Valley declared a fiscal emergency in October with a $3 million deficit and appeared poised for a bankruptcy filing. City leaders say they pulled the city back from the brink after winning concessions from unions to cut costs. The deal cuts pay 5% for city workers, including police. Last month, voters approved a half-point sales tax increase to 8%. The city has cut jobs but struggled as costs on a new water treatment plant exceeded $85 million in bond financing.

    • Azusa. This city east of Los Angeles saw its credit rating downgraded in 2012 by Moody’s and branded with a negative outlook by Standard & Poor’s. Analysts cited low general fund reserves, which fell to $50,000, or 0.17% of expenses, last August. A 2011 audit found the city’s general fund balance was almost entirely in restricted land assets.

    • Compton. Bond-rating agency Standard & Poor’s downgraded, then stopped rating, this Los Angeles County city’s credit, citing the lack of an independent auditor’s opinion, structural deficits and weakened finances. The city has ran annual deficits that reached $40 million and are still projected at more than $9 million this year, and borrowed from dedicated accounts when its general fund ran short. It has laid off 15% of its employees and reduced services, from law enforcement to canceling a popular annual gospel concert. Standard & Poor’s said a 2011 audit was incomplete because of allegations of fraud and abuse of public money and a lack of response from the city to auditors’ questions. The city once known for crime disbanded its police force and now relies on Los Angeles County sheriff’s deputies — and was saddled with $369,000 in late fees for falling behind on payments to the county for those police services.

    • Fresno. This Central Valley agricultural hub has been beset by annual deficits despite big cuts in spending and services, including a 25% reduction in the city workforce since 2009. Its credit rating was downgraded in 2012. The city has a $16 million deficit this year. In January, Standard & Poor’s gave Fresno’s credit a negative outlook “due to our view of the city’s significantly deteriorated financial position.” The city faces bigger annual payments for retired public workers because of poor investment returns for its defined benefit plan, the agency said. Fresno, like neighboring Stockton, has seen its financial stress compounded by double-digit unemployment in the region. The city is asking voters in June to approve privatizing garbage collection, which would produce a cash windfall of more than $10 million plus $2.4 million a year in franchise fees. City workers are fighting the change and pe ioned to force a public vote on the plan.

    • Hercules. This Contra Costa County city near San Francisco saw its credit ratings collapse seven grades to non-investment quality in 2012 as finances weakened and analysts questioned the city’s future willingness to repay debts. The city notified creditors last September that it “does not anticipate there will be any available funds” for debt payments “in the foreseeable future.” S&P says the city plans to use $4.5 million in unspent bond proceeds to pay debt service on other bonds but questions whether payments will be made when that money is exhausted. State Controller John Chiang issued audit reports in March saying, “The city’s books were so poorly managed that I must question their use of every single federal and state dollar.” Hercules has laid off 40% of public workers and last year defaulted on a bond payment, triggering a lawsuit.


    • Mammoth Lakes. The mountain resort city filed for bankruptcy protection, then withdrew its pe ion last year after agreeing to a budget restructuring plan making settlement payments on a lawsuit that it lost. A developer, Mammoth Lakes Land Acquisition, filed suit charging that the city had breached a 1997 agreement to develop a hotel and condo project. The Hot Creek project stalled over federal objections that it would be too close to a planned airport runway expansion. A $30 million judgment, plus legal fees, against the city was upheld on appeal, and the city’s liability grew to $42 million, 2˝ times its general fund budget. Standard & Poor’s says the city remains under financial pressure and rates its bonds at junk status.

    • Monrovia. Standard & Poor’s sharply downgraded the city’s credit rating, citing a “substantially weakened general fund and liquidity position” coupled with the possibility it could lose pending litigation with a developer. It said the city’s general fund consisted “entirely of restricted and non-spendable assets.” Faced with declining tax and other revenue sources, the city cut staff 17% and reduced services, including street repaving, to balance its budget. Monrovia is 20 miles east of Los Angeles and one of several small cities along the foothills of the San Gabriel Mountains.

    • Oakland. Plagued by high crime and lower revenue, this city on the east side of San Francisco Bay has cut police and other services while struggling to stay solvent. It has endured budget shortfalls of $318 million over the past six years and since 2008 has eliminated 16% of its workforce, or 720 jobs, while reducing pay and giving workers unpaid furloughs. Even with a recovering economy, the city is facing a $19 million shortfall in the coming year and projects a deficit of $35 million or more in 2015 as financial concessions made by public-employee unions expire and pension and retiree health benefits climb. The city has reduced its police force by 25% since 2009, to 626 officers, and the California Highway Patrol is helping police the city.

    • San Jose. Being home to much of Silicon Valley’s tech riches has not spared the nation’s 10th-largest city from financial stress. The city has run 11 consecutive general fund deficits, and though it still has reserves, Standard & Poor’s downgraded San Jose’s credit rating in 2012 and branded it with a negative outlook, saying it still faces “long-term structural pressures.” The city has cut workers’ pay 10% and outsourced jobs but still foresees a $5.5 million deficit next year and nearly $14 million the year after. City officials say their biggest problem is retirement costs, which soared from $73 million in 2001 to $245 million last year. Cuts in public pensions approved by voters last fall are being challenged in court by unions. “Long-term budget obligations have outgrown the current revenue structure,” Standard & Poor’s said in January.


    • Vernon. The smallest incorporated city in the state, with a population barely over 100, is an industrial center neighboring Los Angeles with 1,800 businesses and 55,000 jobs in 5 square miles. Vernon has a history of corruption and was the subject of a scathing report by the state auditor last July that said the city doesn’t have enough revenue to pay for the services it provides. The audit found Vernon operated with annual deficits in its general fund for more than 20 years, increasing spending and salaries while tapping dedicated funds, reserves, asset sales and other transfers. The audit said Vernon engaged in speculative investments without effective risk evaluation, including an “unreasonable” natural gas deal that has cost it millions. It cited loose contracting practices and found problems in 21 of 25 city contracts examined, including lack of compe ive bidding. It said Vernon had weak internal financial controls and “may have provided legally questionable retirement benefits to certain current and past executives.” The city turned back efforts in the Legislature to disincorporate it last year and adopted reforms, but the auditor said some policy changes have not been implemented and others will take years to achieve. USA Today

    Not far behind these ten are Chico, Oroville, Red Bluff, Marysville and Paradise. California now leads the nation in municipal bankruptcy filings. Stockton is the largest city yet to file for bankruptcy, marking a new low point in a trend sweeping California. Thank you democrats! Could you possibly be doing any worse?

    Liberal democrats in Sacramento have single handedly taking the richest and most highly rated State down to it’s knees like a 3rd word country in the hands of a dictator. The policies of liberal democrats have ruined the State’s credit, ruined the school system, increased the drop out rate, raised welfare and more. Speaking of welfare did you know that California accounts for 32.62% of all the welfare rolls in the entire country? In 2013 we added an increase of 6.5%!

    Democrats have forced on us the highest paid legislation in the nation, the highest paid state workers to be found anywhere, the worst performing legislature in the nation that must take full credit for chasing away businesses and jobs at a record rate. These fat cats in Sacramento have caused us to pay the most in taxes and get the least for it and they’re still raising taxes (see ACA 8).

    Police and fire layoffs, bankrupt cities, failing schools, massive welfare, over regulation…none of this seems to matter to the voters of California, they voted the rascals in and they will re-elect them. That much you can count on! -Jack


    http://www.norcalblogs.com/postscrip...er-bankruptcy/
    Non sequitur. Nothing in this partisan hack's blog about individual cities' finances refute any of the metrics used in the OP to show California's economic comeback. In fact, the State's decreasing unemployment rate and increased property values will only fatten up the troubled cities' public coffers.

  15. #15
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Post Count
    7,669
    Since California will get a bail out anytime they go under, it only makes sense for every tax payer to root for them.

  16. #16
    Veteran Th'Pusher's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Post Count
    6,130
    Since California will get a bail out anytime they go under, it only makes sense for every tax payer to root for them.
    A federal bailout? In what form do you see this bailout manifesting?

  17. #17
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Post Count
    7,669
    A federal bailout? In what form do you see this bailout manifesting?
    Same way all the other garbage is pushed down our throats.

  18. #18
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    California made a great turnaround and still has ways to go. They obviously have a big advantage in the sheer size of their economy, something other States don't have, but if they can get the ball rolling, perhaps the rest of the country can pick up steam too.

  19. #19
    Veteran
    My Team
    Houston Rockets
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Post Count
    2,176
    Instead of cranking out ridiculous straw, why not address the facts of the article...do you not agree with the metrics the author uses to measure success?
    China' got 11.4% GDP growth. Clearly their economy is kickass and there is nothing wrong with it. The metrics don't lie.

    The fact you don't understand how this relates to your argument shows how ignorant you really are.

    That's an ad hominem.

  20. #20
    Scarlett our Goddess4ever
    My Team
    Dallas Mavericks
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Post Count
    12,836
    The economic size of Cali is about the same as the entire New England region, and would be the 12th largest economy in the world if counted as an independent country. The US can't afford to let Cali fail plain and simple so the feneral government will take every measure to keep the ship afloat (similar to the Most preferential treatment the Lakers often get from Stern).

  21. #21
    Fan Since 1973 Twisted_Dawg's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Post Count
    2,804
    I'm not so sure that all the Asians with money moving to California and buying real estate and work would be interested in doing the same thing in Illinois, Michigan, etc. California's recovery is spotting and located in the tech areas, San Francisco, and San Diego. The rest of the state is still struggling. The State is rated the worst when it comes to being business friendly and the highest state income tax in the country. California is one of the most beautiful states in the country, has incredible weather and I do hope it reaches full economic recovery for the entire state.

  22. #22
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Post Count
    44,134
    I think we can all agree that " home prices were 28.3 percent higher in June than they were a year before" is an unsustainable aberration and more of a reflection on just how awful it got than how good it is now.

    Another thing that confuses me about this article is this:

    " California’s current unemployment rate of 8.5 percent is now ninth in the country."

    If the national average is 7.6 how is this good?

  23. #23
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Post Count
    97,536
    " California’s current unemployment rate of 8.5 percent is now ninth in the country."

    If the national average is 7.6 how is this good?
    good for CA comparing 8.5 to where CA was 3 or 4 years ago.

    8.5 is about NINTH from the bottom

    http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

  24. #24
    Believe. admiralsnackbar's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Post Count
    4,010
    California made a great turnaround and still has ways to go. They obviously have a big advantage in the sheer size of their economy, something other States don't have, but if they can get the ball rolling, perhaps the rest of the country can pick up steam too.
    This. The economy in that state is monumental thanks to being the logistical hub of several nationally crucial industries. Where they continue to falter is at the legislative level, where an impossibly polarized Sacramento is either paralyzed by gridlock or spitting out inane partisan programs and taxing strategies. It seems to happen at the municipal level in mid-state cities, too.

    Scroteface and others appear to be confusing state/municipal economics with commercial/industrial ones. The former needs the latter, but it also needs smarter, more cooperative legislators.

  25. #25
    Veteran Th'Pusher's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Post Count
    6,130
    Same way all the other garbage is pushed down our throats.
    TARP? You think this congress has the political will to pass any such legislation for troubled municipalities? I couldn't disagree more.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •