ryan richards to play in dubai

[Bruno]

It's kinda sad to see Richards picking short term money over trying to improve as a basketball player.

[Chinook]

I never want or mean to sound condescending to you personally. Perhaps, I am condescending of your views, sometimes, but I think they deserve it in the case of Ryan Richards. You say that a 18 point explosion in 15 minutes in a dead rubber against a summer league squad is a testament of some prowess in Richards. The sum & substance of Ryan Richards' career is that he is nowhere close to being a NBA player, a random outburst in a dead rubber apart. And that every season, he regresses enough to be good enough to compete at lower and lower levels.

Your justification of that is ridiculous. There is nothing understandable in a player who wants to play in the NBA to continue to regress and seek lower and lower leagues for a mythical redemption of any kind.

I never said that. I've described him as "rotting overseas" on several occasions. I've also been very clear in that I think it's his fault he's regressing. You act like I'm blaming the Spurs for Richards becoming worse every year. I'm not.

We don't disagree that Richards hasn't shown the intangibles that would indicate that he has any future in the NBA. We do disagree on whether he has the raw talent to succeed. You said that my take was horrible, because if Richards has any real basketball talent, he'd have games where he exploded against lower-level compe ion. That's exactly what happened in the final summer-league game. He definitely displayed his above-average handles, his good shooting form, and his already-decent post game. Those are skills that I said he has when you originally called my take "pseudo-intellectual bull ".

So I don't really think he has a great chance to be an NBA player. But I think any chance of him doing so involves him getting into the league as soon as possible. If the Spurs want anything from their investment, then I feel they need to get him into their system before it's too late.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I never said that. I've described him as "rotting overseas" on several occasions. I've also been very clear in that I think it's his fault he's regressing. You act like I'm blaming the Spurs for Richards becoming worse every year. I'm not.

We don't disagree that Richards hasn't shown the intangibles that would indicate that he has any future in the NBA. We do disagree on whether he has the raw talent to succeed. You said that my take was horrible, because if Richards has any real basketball talent, he'd have games where he exploded against lower-level compe ion. That's exactly what happened in the final summer-league game. He definitely displayed his above-average handles, his good shooting form, and his already-decent post game. Those are skills that I said he has when you originally called my take "pseudo-intellectual bull ".

So I don't really think he has a great chance to be an NBA player. But I think any chance of him doing so involves him getting into the league as soon as possible. If the Spurs want anything from their investment, then I feel they need to get him into their system before it's too late.

So, if the only thing we disagree is that you think he has talent and I don't and your evidence for it is a 18 point outburst in the end of a summer league and in a dead rubber.. I think there is no reason to revise my opinion of your takes on Richards based on your defense of his purported talent.

[Chinook]

So, if the only thing we disagree is that you think he has talent and I don't and your evidence for it is a 18 point outburst in the end of a summer league and in a dead rubber.. I think there is no reason to revise my opinion of your takes on Richards based on your defense of his purported talent.

The main point of your previous critique was that if Richards had talent, he would have had games where he flashed against lesser compe ion. That's exactly what happened in the summer-league game. I totally understand why you don't think he'll make it in the NBA, but since he met your own benchmark for showing he had talent, I don't understand why you refuse to acknowledge that you were mistaken in that regard. That's especially true, since most of the shots he made are ones he'd get in the NBA, such as his three-pointers and turn-around fade-aways.

I think Richards could score in the NBA right now. The only baskets that would not have worked were the ones where he kept barreling into his man. And the layup he missed is one he'd have open the majority of the time, especially in the Spurs' offense where the center catches the ball there after he crosses half-court. However, I don't think he understands the game well enough to get into the necessary positions to get the ball, and that very well may not be fixable. He also seems extremely self-centered, which affects his ability and desire to play the game in a team context. He definitely seems like d-league caliber to me, about where Joseph was as a rookie. He's more talented than Joseph, but he definitely doesn't have his work ethic. Honestly, I think Richards should have tried to enroll in a university for a couple of seasons rather than declaring at 19. He could have just been coming out of school right now, and I'm sure he'd have been better off.

[Raven]

LOL at Ryan Richards trying to force anything.

kind of agree

[Drom John]

UAE League has 12 "Import Players." Richards is not listed.

Chris Burgess, Duke, transferred to Utah (2002), invited to Suns training camp in 2002 & 2003. Has attended four summer leagues 2002 to 2007.

Jordan Collins, North Carolina State (2005)

Jermaine Dailey, University of Illinois-Chicago (2008)

Courtney Fields, Iona (2003)

LeRoy Hurd, UTSA (2004)

Vincent Jones, Jackson State (2000)

Chaucey Leslie, Iowa (2003)

Joseph Taylor, Wyoming (2008)

Terrence Townsend, no college, basketball workout friend with Paul George, has played in the Drew League.

Tiras Wade, Louisiana-Lafayette (2005), 2007 D-League


Non U.S. Imports

Bruno Sundov, drafted 35th 1998 by Mavericks

Cheikh Samb, drafted #51 2005 by the Lakers. D-League, 118 minutes in NBA 2007-8, 2008-9 for Pistons, Nuggets, Clippers, Knicks (only the last on a 10-day contract). Was part of a big name trade: November 3, 2008: Traded by the Detroit Pistons with Chauncey Billups and Antonio McDyess to the Denver Nuggets for Allen Iverson

********************

Generally older drifters, two former D-Leaguers, two former draft picks and one NBA training camp invite (with one duplicate). Not a stellar group, but not horrible.

[Drom John]

Austrian League.
No U.S. players.

Canadians:

Corey Hallett, Monmouth 2007

Matthew Rachar, U of B.C. 2004?

Ashton Smith, Indiana PA, 2012

******************

UAE seems to have better pedigrees.
Austrian has youth.

[Spursfanfromafar]

The main point of your previous critique was that if Richards had talent, he would have had games where he flashed against lesser compe ion. That's exactly what happened in the summer-league game. I totally understand why you don't think he'll make it in the NBA, but since he met your own benchmark for showing he had talent, I don't understand why you refuse to acknowledge that you were mistaken in that regard. That's especially true, since most of the shots he made are ones he'd get in the NBA, such as his three-pointers and turn-around fade-aways.

I think Richards could score in the NBA right now. The only baskets that would not have worked were the ones where he kept barreling into his man. And the layup he missed is one he'd have open the majority of the time, especially in the Spurs' offense where the center catches the ball there after he crosses half-court. However, I don't think he understands the game well enough to get into the necessary positions to get the ball, and that very well may not be fixable. He also seems extremely self-centered, which affects his ability and desire to play the game in a team context. He definitely seems like d-league caliber to me, about where Joseph was as a rookie. He's more talented than Joseph, but he definitely doesn't have his work ethic. Honestly, I think Richards should have tried to enroll in a university for a couple of seasons rather than declaring at 19. He could have just been coming out of school right now, and I'm sure he'd have been better off.

I never said that Ryan Richards has enough talent. In fact I have been saying that his talent is not even sufficient at the lower leagues and his performances all along bear him out on that respect.

In your case, you cherry pick a random game (a dead rubber against a poor Summer League team, a random performance here in Switzerland or in Austria and looks like you will now be scouring the depths of Dubai for your purposes as well) to suggest that he has talent.

As of now, all he seems to have is the looks of a basketball player and some streaks of ability. Talent, na. Performance, nada. At ude, poor. Desire and Ambition, Nil. A wasted asset, in my opinion.

[RD2191]

I never said that Ryan Richards has enough talent. In fact I have been saying that his talent is not even sufficient at the lower leagues and his performances all along bear him out on that respect.

In your case, you cherry pick a random game (a dead rubber against a poor Summer League team, a random performance here in Switzerland or in Austria and looks like you will now be scouring the depths of Dubai for your purposes as well) to suggest that he has talent.

As of now, all he seems to have is the looks of a basketball player and some streaks of ability. Talent, na. Performance, nada. At ude, poor. Desire and Ambition, Nil. A wasted asset, in my opinion.

Crack is bad.

[Chinook]

I never said that Ryan Richards has enough talent. In fact I have been saying that his talent is not even sufficient at the lower leagues and his performances all along bear him out on that respect.

In your case, you cherry pick a random game (a dead rubber against a poor Summer League team, a random performance here in Switzerland or in Austria and looks like you will now be scouring the depths of Dubai for your purposes as well) to suggest that he has talent.

As of now, all he seems to have is the looks of a basketball player and some streaks of ability. Talent, na. Performance, nada. At ude, poor. Desire and Ambition, Nil. A wasted asset, in my opinion.

I don't know what your definition of talent is. It's not the same thing as production, and you seem to be conflating the two. To say that he doesn't show good shooting form and good handles for a big is just not true. To say that he doesn't have great (especially if the reports of him being seven feet barefoot are accurate) and above-average mobility for a center is also not true. He has plenty of talent. What he doesn't have are intangibles. Almost every specific critique you have for Richards (and there really haven't been many) falls into that category (work ethic, basketball IQ, at ude).

So if you were arguing that he lacks the mental makeup to do what he needs to do to succeed, I'd be sympathetic. But instead, you're suggesting that he lacks physical tools, and I just can't agree there. Physically, he has what it takes to be an NBA player. But mentally, he's a long shot.

[Bill_Brasky]

I never said that Ryan Richards has enough talent. In fact I have been saying that his talent is not even sufficient at the lower leagues and his performances all along bear him out on that respect.

In your case, you cherry pick a random game (a dead rubber against a poor Summer League team, a random performance here in Switzerland or in Austria and looks like you will now be scouring the depths of Dubai for your purposes as well) to suggest that he has talent.

As of now, all he seems to have is the looks of a basketball player and some streaks of ability. Talent, na. Performance, nada. At ude, poor. Desire and Ambition, Nil. A wasted asset, in my opinion.

So a 7 footer having handles and draining 3's isn't talented? OK. There's maybe 20 7 footers in the WORLD that have the coordination Richards does. That's huge.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I don't know what your definition of talent is. It's not the same thing as production, and you seem to be conflating the two. To say that he doesn't show good shooting form and good handles for a big is just not true. To say that he doesn't have great (especially if the reports of him being seven feet barefoot are accurate) and above-average mobility for a center is also not true. He has plenty of talent. What he doesn't have are intangibles. Almost every specific critique you have for Richards (and there really haven't been many) falls into that category (work ethic, basketball IQ, at ude).

So if you were arguing that he lacks the mental makeup to do what he needs to do to succeed, I'd be sympathetic. But instead, you're suggesting that he lacks physical tools, and I just can't agree there. Physically, he has what it takes to be an NBA player. But mentally, he's a long shot.

So you are saying that physical tools = cons uting talent?

No. I would include all of that - basketball IQ, instinct, basketball ability - posting up, scoring, passing, all at an acceptable level as talent. From what we have seen so far, Richards has little of it to *sustain himself against decent compe ion* beyond physical strength and body structure.

So, no, I don't think he has enough talent as well. And I reiterate that your logic about "oh he lacks only in the mental aspect of it" as pseudo-intellectual bull .

[Spursfanfromafar]

So a 7 footer having handles and draining 3's isn't talented? OK. There's maybe 20 7 footers in the WORLD that have the coordination Richards does. That's huge.

I think even the ungainly Manute Bol once used to score threes on bunches. That didn't make him a talented shooter. And I disagree that Richards can "drain threes". He can take them once in a while against uncoordinated and un-interested defenses. Thats not acceptable opposition.

[Bill_Brasky]

I think even the ungainly Manute Bol once used to score threes on bunches. That didn't make him a talented shooter. And I disagree that Richards can "drain threes". He can take them once in a while against uncoordinated and un-interested defenses. Thats not acceptable opposition.

Manute Bol? Really?

Richards has talent dude. Deny it all you want, but it's true. He's just wasting it because he's either dumb, lazy, or a little bit of both.

[Bill_Brasky]

And if the Spurs don't think he has talent why do they keep giving him a shot every summer? Are you really gonna say that their evaluation of talent isn't credible? Because that would be dumb.

[RD2191]

I don't see how he could be any worse than Bonner. It's beyond me how the Bonner is still somehow on this team or in the NBA.

[Bill_Brasky]

I don't see how he could be any worse than Bonner. It's beyond me how the Bonner is still somehow on this team or in the NBA.

The mental aspect of sports is the most overlooked. Some people have it between the ears and others don't.

Bonner right now is way better than anybody probably thought he could ever be. He's not much for talent but working his ass off and perfecting his shot is what has kept him around.

[RD2191]

The mental aspect of sports is the most overlooked. Some people have it between the ears and other don't.

This is true.

[Chinook]

So you are saying that physical tools = cons uting talent?

No. I would include all of that - basketball IQ, instinct, basketball ability - posting up, scoring, passing, all at an acceptable level as talent. From what we have seen so far, Richards has little of it to *sustain himself against decent compe ion* beyond physical strength and body structure.

So, no, I don't think he has enough talent as well. And I reiterate that your logic about "oh he lacks only in the mental aspect of it" as pseudo-intellectual bull .

I like you again criticized the fact that I think his biggest problem is the mental aspect of the game and then proceeded to list mental aspects as half of his issues. The other half are issues that he periodically shows he has no issue with. I don't think anyone who's watched Richards thinks his problem is that he can't score well enough. He also made a couple of good passes (and only one bad one) in this summer league, so I don't get why you list that as an issue.

I understand that you think that basketball IQ can be considered a talent. As was said by Bill in this thread, it is a very overlooked aspect of the game. But that doesn't make it correct to say, "He doesn't have basketball IQ or instincts; therefore, he's not talented," which is what you're arguing. "Basketball ability" is just an empty phrase in your post, since that encompasses all of the skills needed to play basketball (both physically and mentally). Thus, he has some basketball ability, and he's missing some.

He's a good shooter, handler and passer. He's not a good basketball player. Perhaps he can become that with good training, but that's not horribly likely. He's talented. He may not have all the talent he needs to have an NBA future, but he has more talent than a good number of players who are in the league right now.

[Obstructed_View]

You guys need to take a time out and agree on the definition of "talent" before you continue. Otherwise you're just talking past each other.

Also, please stop saying dead rubber.

Put Matt Bonner's work ethic and hustle into Ryan Richards' body and you have a guy who makes an all-star game.

[DrSteffo]

The distinction between mental and physical abilities (dualism) is old fashioned (see for example Damasio for a modern view of how the brain interacts with the body. When you shoot the ball your brain has to process visual information, interpret that information and compare it to stored mental representations, process spatial relations, send signals to move body parts, process sensory input from your hands, react to changes in the environment and so on. Whatever you do as a basketball player it is always both mental and physical. To evaluate talent and exclude mental processes would be quite silly and impossible once you look at actual basketball skills. The organism named Ryan Richards is not that great at playing basketball. Can he improve? Yes sure but it doesn't seem likely that it will be his priority in life.

[Obstructed_View]

It seems to be related to will and effort far more than to natural ability and developed skills.

[Chinook]

The distinction between mental and physical abilities (dualism) is old fashioned (see for example Damasio for a modern view of how the brain interacts with the body. When you shoot the ball your brain has to process visual information, interpret that information and compare it to stored mental representations, process spatial relations, send signals to move body parts, process sensory input from your hands, react to changes in the environment and so on. Whatever you do as a basketball player it is always both mental and physical. To evaluate talent and exclude mental processes would be quite silly and impossible once you look at actual basketball skills. The organism named Ryan Richards is not that great at playing basketball. Can he improve? Yes sure but it doesn't seem likely that it will be his priority in life.

Obviously. No one is really thinking that physical skills don't involve the brain. There's a difference, though, between "physical" skills like shooting and handling, and "mental" skills like basketball IQ and court awareness. That's why I originally used a talent/intangibles dichotomy. A player can certainly have the brain power to coordinate muscles correctly enough to shoot, pass, dribble and the like while also lacking the fundamental higher understanding of how basketball works and more importantly failing to internalize the strategic and intellectual parts of the game to the extent needed to maintain enough fluidity to be a serviceable player.

[DrSteffo]

It seems to be related to will and effort far more than to natural ability and developed skills.

Agreed but also what some people call basketball IQ which might be partly natural (see my post above) and partly developed.

[DrSteffo]

Obviously. No one is really thinking that physical skills don't involve the brain. There's a difference, though, between "physical" skills like shooting and handling, and "mental" skills like basketball IQ and court awareness. That's why I originally used a talent/intangibles dichotomy. A player can certainly have the brain power to coordinate muscles correctly enough to shoot, pass, dribble and the like while also lacking the fundamental higher understanding of how basketball works and more importantly failing to internalize the strategic and intellectual parts of the game to the extent needed to maintain enough fluidity to be a serviceable player.

I don't see shooting as a "physical skill" since it depends on what the brain does. Spatial ability is a fundamental aspect of shooting and is partly natural and partly developed. It is the brain that send signals to the arms and hands and it is the brain which tries to decide the trajectory and so on.

I agree that it is possible to separate beween "higher level" and "lower level" mental abilites. What many people fail to realise is that those "lower level" mental abilities are crucial and even if they look easy they are not easy to master. If our brains would send perfect signals to our body and get precise information back from the body at super-speed we would all be great shooters and ball handlers (if we have arms and hands). Another thing is that lower level abilities interact with higher level abilities. Court awareness is a good example. Attention and perception (low level skills) are crucial for court awareness. The body is of course also important since wee see with our eyes and with our brain.