HarlemHeat37 is a firm believer that Michael Jordan played in a watered down league compared today.
do you fellas agree with this?
ususally, its kobe/lebron fanboys under the age of 25 that didn't really watch 90's ball that say MJ played in a watered down league, in order to prop their guy up. i addmitedly didn't watch 90's ball, but i'm sure its vastly underrated by people in my age group who didn't actually watch it. i think the rule changes that occured post MJ are a bigger deal than any talent disparity
Jordan>>>>Kobe and that's the only thing I'll agree upon in this thread.
It was watered down a little bit by the rule changes Stern made to help Jordan win (i.e. stricter flagrant foul and fighting rules, five-points rule, shortened three-point line, hand-checking ban, etc.) but what really watered down the league was the boring perimeter isoball era of the early 2000s that came after MJ, tbh....
The 2012-13 Spurs and 2011-2012 Thunder would lose in the first or second round during the playoffs at the time of Jordan's tenure on the Bulls.
imagine the 12-13 lakers
There is not much to imagine, they would not participate. Tim Duncan and Kobe Bryant would never win a ring during that era unless paired with a dominant player such as Hakeem or Shaq.imagine the 12-13 lakers
i always wondered what would happen had the bulls not broken up in 98 and faced the spurs in 99. Some say they would win cause...well they were the 90's bulls. But some say they would lose cause they would be too old at that point and would face a big problem with duncan and drob packing the paint, especially a young duncan.
Well, some new teams were added to the NBA during the Jordan era. In most sports, fans (and so-called "experts") will typically always look at expansion years, and the year or two following their being added in as "watered down". So technically you had the Heat, Timberwolves, Hornets, and Magic added into the NBA in the early-Jordan era before he won any les. Then the Raptors and Grizzlies later after he won 3 les.
So in that sense, it was temporarily watered down with some "scrub teams" for a little bit before they picked up steam. Though if you're going to use that argument, you also have to use it any time a team was added to the NBA. Which is most decades.
In terms of talent, I don't think it was watered down at all. Look at the massive stats the top bigs had in Jordan's era. Jordan was pretty unique in how much he dominated out of the SG position. That was not a common practice at the time at all.
The 3pt line was shortended when MJ first retired and was switched back after his first full season back. So that rule actually barely effected MJ at all. The handchecking rule was also changed after MJ first retired. So he only played with 3 full years of it on the Bulls, not nearly his full career.
Since both of those rules were done after MJ retired, you can't say they were "for MJ". Jordan played most of his career under the full, old NBA rules and obviously did not need those rule changes. Those rule changes were far more meant for the rest of the league so more "Jordan-type players" (dominant very high scoring perimeter players) could be created.
I agree about the boring perimeter isoball era comment though.
i agree but jordan was winning anyway even with those rules in place. fact is the celtics, lakers and pistons just gold old and the bulls blossomed at the right time
the paint was packed with premier big men though, and its still amazing jordan league at a time when the best big men were all playing in their prime
Lol son. Mailman, Stockton, Ewing, Hakeem, Sir Charles. Lol. Is this a joke tbh?
and MJ spent the first 6 years of his career during the Magic/Bird saga and the Bad Boys pistons. then the 90's had stockton, malone, ewing, charles, prime hakeem, payton, etc
while MJ spent his first 6 seasons without much roster help in a league with the lakers/celtics/pistons Kobe got to spend the first third of his career and 60% of his les playing robin.
i didn't watch 80's or much of 90's, but the consensus seems to be it was a lot less monkey isoball than the 2000's. speaking of watered down, didn't iverson's sixers make the finals against the lakers?
yes and no.... when he won his les in the early - mid 90's...absolutely yes when he couldn't win because of Larry, Magic, and Isaiah then No...he failed when it counted the most...Now back to the 90's on the defensive side of the ball NO he played in the best era of defensive players...in fact it's the only reason I give him the slight edge over Kobe...the bad boy Pistons, the ing 92 Knicks....those were some gotdam hard ass pipe hitting mutha as...man listen I used to hang with my fam in NYC back in those days and I'm telling that Pistons team and that Knick team on defense was a mutha a...and MJ got through it...
Now as for the offensive side of the ball...he CERTAINLY played in a watered down league when he won his les...Listen Reggie Miller was the only stud to really give it to MJ..and MJ used to cheat against Reggie all the time..he had the refs in his pockets..man Reggie all he needed was one player on his squad with some heart and MJ might dam neat be ringless..if not he would likely only have 2 or 3 the other half would have went to Reggie... MJ never faced night in and night out top scorers in the league like today...the 1's, 2's and 3's man these cats be lighting it up..MJ had no one to really go back at him..and please save the Charles Barkley and Patrick Ewing comparisons....Reggie Miller was MJ's only real compe ion and even then the refs still had to cheat for MJ...
If Iverson's Sixers made the finals in 2001 you can all stfu about the 90's being watered down
^ then shut your Paki soccer playing falafalel eating ass up...you don't know a got dam thang if you didn't watch in the 90's...gtfo
Paki? you think i'm harlem or somethin?
but it's true that its normally kobe or bron fanboys that talk about the lack of talent in the 90's
Crofl 09 Magic
00 Pacers
01 76ers
02 Nets
04 Pistons (and lost
you have no credibility if you didn't watch in the 90's...I'm really not interested in a got dam thang you got to say....
half the ers posting on this forum didn't watch 90's but as long as they agree with you, your cool with it...
what team did MJ beat that was worse than the 09 magic or 01 sixers?
Kool, gettin his pushed in like it was 9:30 pm in cell block B.
Jordan Jockers are too funny
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