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Those are some good points..there's some more relevant analysts and reviews on this topic here, I think: http://www.amazon.com/The-Colossus-H...owViewpoints=1
in the 00's:
1) Chris Webber was considered an equal to Duncan. In fact, the Spurs lobbied hard to get Webber to replace Robinson, and as insurance if Duncan decided to leave in 2003. Thank goodness that didn't happen.
2) Garnett was considered an equal, or even superior to Duncan. But as time passes, Duncan's alpha traits and Garnett's beta traits came out, and it was debate no more.
3) Shaq was the next Wilt. He really was that good, that dominant. Shaq was the most dominant player in the NBA since Wilt, where marginal big men had jobs just to give Shaq 6 fouls. Too bad he didn't take care of himself, grew to 350lbs (probably more) to a point where his gigantic frame couldn't even hold his even more gigantic mass.
4) Lebron was the Magic + Jordan hybrid, destined to be the GOAT. He certain had (and still has) the skills, but his mental approach has been questioned, and rightfully so. While Lebron was no doubt talented, I still feel that he would be taught the way to handle pressure situations and how to carry himself better if he went to college for 2 to 3 years instead of having to figure all that out on his own. If Lebron actually went to college and was tutored by a great college coach, he possibly would have been the GOAT.
5) Kobe was considered equal to Carter and McGrady. From a skill standpoint, yes. However, Kobe had way better longevity (PEDs, cough cough), better drive, and better teammates. If T-Mac/Carter switched places with Kobe, they would have won 3 rings as a beta to Shaq, just like Kobe did, but no way would they be able to win two more with MVPau because their bodies would have broken down by then.
6) The league made a serious attempt to win over street baller fans, featuring players like AI, Starbury, and White Chocolate. They went h2h against And1 with that dribbling/beats commercial. At the end, the league realized that empty seats already paid my millionaires gives them more revenue than filled $15 seats paid by inner city kids. It's just not a market worth going after with that much effort. Besides, die hard basketball fans will buy gear regardless, what's the point of pouring all that $ with marginal increase in sales?
7) Dirk was a choke artist. Some people still claim that, but it is now in the minority. Teams get exploited in the playoffs. The Mavs had obvious issues dealing with long athletic teams. It really wasn't Dirk's fault.
8) Gilbert Arenas was the next AI. How that went down fast.
9) Pierce was sharing equal billing with Walker. That was hilarious. Walker was a horribly inefficient player who had the skills and body of a PF, but thinks he's a SG. 8 3PA/gm and shooting 39% from the field? What the is that?
10) The Lakers were a dominant franchise, the empire where the sun never sets.
11) The Spurs window has closed. That was around since 2007, still going ...
Those are some good points..there's some more relevant analysts and reviews on this topic here, I think: http://www.amazon.com/The-Colossus-H...owViewpoints=1
12) When AaronY was posting pics of himself to prove he lives in a pre-manufactured home and spends more time with PEDs and weights than in school. I am still waiting for that rear spread glute shot though. Also, he never did answer my question about him being a bartender in a swanky SA "bar". Odd that when I ask people these things they pretend I didn't.
number 2 is true as tbh
Regarding 5), yeah likely T-mac & Carter wouldn't have been able to stay healthy enough to coat-tail rings with Pau, but it should be acknowledged that they were less incredibly arrogant asshats, and therefore might have not forced the Lakers into a choice between them and Shaq... which could have led to 5 rings anyway...
Ouch, my feelings..
In the 00's Jim was a closet case, in the 10's Jim is a fabulous flaming got.
10 years ago the Lakers were a dynasty
10 years later the Lakers are a laughingstock
But according to your WS logic, a decade later they should still be viewed as equal, and maybe KG is even slightly better. KG had top WS of 18.3, 16.1, 15.6, 14.9, and 12.9 in his prime years. Duncan had top WS of 17.8, 16.5, 13.2, 13.1, and 13.0.
Remember, that was your logic just yesterday.
But the. Duncan had 12 double digit ws seasons. Garnett nine. Yesterday I was talking strictly about primes.
10 yrs ago my goddess was still young and gorgeous who didn't need any makeup to look good. She's still pretty and lovely today, better than 90% es out there but already one or two classes below the prime of herself. She's entering the TOSB class soon probably
good news is she ain't having a plan to have kids anytime soon so it may help maintain her beauty a few years longer, but it still makes me feel I've kind of wasted the past 10 years of my life.
Ok. Let me ask you this then...
Duncan hasn't had a double digit WS season the last three seasons. Let's say he retires without another one. That's 12 double digit WS seasons. Karl Malone had 14 in his career.
If Duncan remains at 12, who had the better career based on your win share logic?
checkmate ambchang
ambchang's logic is egregiously bad, tbh..
combination of things need to go into these things. individual stats, advanced stats, team success with/without said player, accolades, posteason performances, etc
10 years ago, Jerry Buss was ing chicks anytime, now that he's dead, only worms his corpse.
First of all, not sure where I got the idea of saying WS is the be all and end all. I used it exclusively in the other thread to compare peaks, and if WS was exclusive, T-Mac would have been > Drexler, but I clearly stated that Drexler > T-Mac in their primes, citing normal stats. Could I have stated that the Blazers did significantly better than T-Mac's Rockets and Magic teams? Sure, but I didn't because it's widely known knowledge.
WS provide a fantastic way of showing the effects of a player on how a player helps his team wins by taking into pace, and remove as much of the effects of having good teammates.
Malone has had amazing longevity, and this is known, but Duncan was widely viewed as the better player because he had been successful in multiple make ups of teams. He was the only player other than Russell who had won championships as the lead (leading in own team in WS) playing with entirely different players, under entirely different systems. Malone has played with Stockton for almost his entire career, and arguments can be made that Stockton made him.
Duncan is also a special case in which he has his minutes significantly reduced by Pop, it's part of the game plan, and has rarely been used outside of SAS's system.
As for Garnett, he had an incredibly 04 and 05 season, and that was when he was viewed as equal of superior to Duncan. Not coincidentally, that's when Garnett had higher WS. However, his drop off was relatively quick, and he was sharing top billing with Pierce in Boston.
Once upon a time Duncan was a happily married man leading his team to championships.
Today... he's a cuck loving got that chokes on layups to win les. Talk about falling!!!
At least Duncan is still alive, Buss, on the other hand, LOL!
not ONCE in life did Dr. Buss take a single solitary 12+ inch laced up his ass...not once...our fearless leader was a pussy hound galore...and not once did our fearless leader spend 3 hrs at lunch with any of his ho's....
Ahh, the late 90s/early 2000s, miss those times so much. Not just because of the NBA and NBC and 35 yr old MJ assraping the league and Kirby raping a white , but because 2Pac's unheard tracks were still leaking, everyone wasn't on the internet and baggy jeans were actually cool.
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